Zeppelin Staaken R.VI - Auto-movement Scenario

[Ken at Sunrise]

I must have done something very wrong.

I played this last night as a single players. Two planes Sopwith Camel and a Spad XIII (I think). I choose them right out the 'choose two planes from the list'. Against the Zeppelin Staaken R.VI. I placed the two maps end to end length-wise. So the map was fairly long instead of square. I wasn't sure which way the rules wanted it. But this way the Staaken more table to cross. The one mistake I made for sure is placing the two opposing plans at the opposite end instead of being closer along the edge.

But... as the Staaken made it lumbering way across the table the two other planes really had not change. Trying to maneuver into it blind spot only resulted in me being out of position or having a rudder jammed. The Spad took and unbelievable number of shots. Often from multiple guns. Several times from both wing guns and one of the dorsal guns. What truely amazed me was the amount of zero damage cards he took. He should have been dead early but hung in there until the next to last turn. Finally taking both a pilot and explosion in the same attack. He was able to silence one gun before the crashed.

The Camel on the other had had very few shots. It took a few and ended up with a rudder jam. It was never really in a position to be effective and the Staaken was focusing on the Spad anyway.

In the end the Staaken left the board with 3 damage. The Camel only had 1 damage and the Spad, well it was a good fight.

What did I do wrong. This didn't seem like a well balanced match.

[Carl_Brisgamer]

I must have done something very wrong.

I played this last night as a single players. Two planes Sopwith Camel and a Spad XIII (I think). I choose them right out the 'choose two planes from the list'. Against the Zeppelin Staaken R.VI. I placed the two maps end to end length-wise. So the map was fairly long instead of square. I wasn't sure which way the rules wanted it. But this way the Staaken more table to cross. The one mistake I made for sure is placing the two opposing plans at the opposite end instead of being closer along the edge.

But... as the Staaken made it lumbering way across the table the two other planes really had not change. Trying to maneuver into it blind spot only resulted in me being out of position or having a rudder jammed. The Spad took and unbelievable number of shots. Often from multiple guns. Several times from both wing guns and one of the dorsal guns. What truely amazed me was the amount of zero damage cards he took. He should have been dead early but hung in there until the next to last turn. Finally taking both a pilot and explosion in the same attack. He was able to silence one gun before the crashed.

The Camel on the other had had very few shots. It took a few and ended up with a rudder jam. It was never really in a position to be effective and the Staaken was focusing on the Spad anyway.

In the end the Staaken left the board with 3 damage. The Camel only had 1 damage and the Spad, well it was a good fight.

What did I do wrong. This didn't seem like a well balanced match.

Hi Ken,

The Zeppelin-Staaken is a beast to take down. Getting behind it is a nightmare, those four rear firing B guns take a heavy toll. It is also deceptively fast. I have played that scenario a couple of times and on each occasion at least one scout has gone down. The answer is altitude - you get below and beside the Staaken and just pepper the belly with MG fire. The Bristol F2B is particularly good for this job.

Check out one of my AARs here - http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...-Play-Brisbane

It should be noted that historically no R-Planes were lost on England raids and they did shoot down aircraft of Home Defence Squadrons.

Cheers,

Carl.

[Ken at Sunrise]

I've still not used Altitude. So I think without those rules I might need more planes as an offset to that. Thoughts?

[Carl_Brisgamer]

I've still not used Altitude. So I think without those rules I might need more planes as an offset to that. Thoughts?

Altitude is important when taking on bombers - I have read a lot of RFC combat reports about Gotha kills and most successful scout pilots attacked from below. If you can get in a good position and blaze away it won't matter so much that you are only doing 1 card damage because you will be getting the +1 Aim rule damage for subsequent attacks (unless you take a hit yourself which cancels out the bonus).

If you are not using altitude frontal and beam attacks are the best option.

[Ken at Sunrise]

Another question about altitude. In your post you used but the Bristol and Camels. Both of them have a climb rate of 3. If I understand correctly that means it takes three turns to add a single peg of altitude. Right? By then he is more than 1/2 way across the board.

[Carl_Brisgamer]

Another question about altitude. In your post you used but the Bristol and Camels. Both of them have a climb rate of 3. If I understand correctly that means it takes three turns to add a single peg of altitude. Right? By then he is more than 1/2 way across the board.

That is correct the scouts have a climb rate of 3. But you can start them at the same altitude as the Zeppelin-Staaken. Get both scouts to make a frontal attack on the bomber, dive underneath, Immelmann then hit them again.

[flash]

Taking on a Staaken with two scout 'planes is a big ask Ken - you have to be lucky with the cards to get a victory - if you're not happy with two I'd suggest adding a third scout and try to get them to attack together so at least the enemy gunners have to spread the love !
With the set up you had with end on mats start at either end of the first mat, plan to turn your scouts or Immel in tight behind the Staaken and try to get in close to cause maximum damage while you can - the beast has no blind spot from the wing mounts so pray you cause some special damage, or, they jam while you're there and play the optional rules for fire damage. No guarantees but that's what I'd do.
I was lucky when I played them for the first time at Beachhead as I Immelled a Spad XIII close behind one and drew two wound cards at close range that caused 4 gunner casualties, then I set it on fire - I died subsequently but it paved the way for others to finish the job.

[Ken at Sunrise]

That is correct the scouts have a climb rate of 3. But you can start them at the same altitude as the Zeppelin-Staaken. Get both scouts to make a frontal attack on the bomber, dive underneath, Immelmann then hit them again.

Just curious, in a multi-player game what would stop the bomber diving to level 1 and forcing its opponents to be at the same or higher altitude? In fact wouldn't that be smart?

[Ken at Sunrise]

Taking on a Staaken with two scout 'planes is a big ask Ken - you have to be lucky with the cards to get a victory - if you're not happy with two I'd suggest adding a third scout and try to get them to attack together so at least the enemy gunners have to spread the love !
With the set up you had with end on mats start at either end of the first mat, plan to turn your scouts or Immel in tight behind the Staaken and try to get in close to cause maximum damage while you can - the beast has no blind spot from the wing mounts so pray you cause some special damage, or, they jam while you're there and play the optional rules for fire damage. No guarantees but that's what I'd do.
I was lucky when I played them for the first time at Beachhead as I Immelled a Spad XIII close behind one and drew two wound cards at close range that caused 4 gunner casualties, then I set it on fire - I died subsequently but it paved the way for others to finish the job.

Yeah, I played two because that's what the scenario suggested. I tried getting directly behind only to get chewed up in the process. The bomber kept turning at just the wrong time, lucky devil. Staying ahead with an observer can at least put on you and even footing but that still seems like a loosing proposition with it's high damage points. It was a beating to be sure.

[flash]

Just curious, in a multi-player game what would stop the bomber diving to level 1 and forcing its opponents to be at the same or higher altitude? In fact wouldn't that be smart?

A well written scenario should put a stop to such munchkin play Ken - the promise of every machine gun on the ground being able to join in the fun should they drop to a certain level, AAA at another, may help, or, that the bombs must be dropped from a certain height. With a climb rate of 8 that should discourage such smart**** tactics.

[flash]

I have made a note of the speeds in the Updated Tactical Walkthrough thread as the new Giants are quicker than you'd think - The bases of the HP O/400 & The Staaken are 8.1cm long as opposed to the other Giants & standard bases which are 6.8cm long. A 1.3cm difference. The Staaken with the XA deck has a speed of 2.0cm per move, the HP with the XB deck has a speed of 2.6cm per move which compares with the standard base length with XD deck of 2.3cm per move. With standard bases the XA is 0.7cm per move, the XB is 1.3cm per move.

[milcoll73]

Just curious, in a multi-player game what would stop the bomber diving to level 1 and forcing its opponents to be at the same or higher altitude? In fact wouldn't that be smart?

absolutely nothing. in fact thats exactly what i did when i flew a staaken at origins 2014.

[Nicola Zee]

absolutely nothing. in fact thats exactly what i did when i flew a staaken at origins 2014.

The weak spot of the 'beast' is the front. The rear has a very deadly 4 machine guns but the front has only 1. So a Bristol Fighter B\A flying parallel to the front with a Snipe flying towards the front gets 2 lots of 'A' cards while the bomber hits back with only 1 lot of 'B' cards.

Once the 'beast' is at altitude 1, there is no chance of it changing altitude and so it becomes easier to coordinate and plan the fighter's frontal attacks.

In the game we played it was
1 Staaken on bomb the town mission + 1 Fokker EV (Controlled by different players and not auto-piloted)
versus
1 Brisfit A\B + 2 SE5a

The result was the beast eat up the fighters and spat out the pieces. All the players agreed it was by far the worst game in terms of balance we had played by far. One thing we found is very fast planes like the SE5a or Spad XIII are hard to use because it is too easy to overshoot and either crash into the bomber (spectacular but embarrassing) or end up in the bomber's rear and hit by multiple rear guns. Even a tough fighter like an SE5a is crippled by hits from multiple guns at once

So I'm going to try the following British fighters next
1 Brisfit B\A + 1 Brisfit A\B + 1 Snipe