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Thread: PragueCon:B17 Schweinfurt Raid

  1. #1

    Default PragueCon:B17 Schweinfurt Raid

    B17 Schweinfurt Raid: (To note the Game B17's were all F's but the models were a mix of F's and G's).

    I wanted to try out a simplified gunnery template for a 'Box' of 6 B17's and my thanks to all who played this game at PragueCon.

    The template: (An A4 sheet which allows me to control all firing arcs and damage for 6 B17's)

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    There are 3 more circles below these 3 but you get the idea (I hope) each circle is a B17.
    Each gun arc is represented by a sequence of letters.
    FA = Front A firing
    F1A/A or F2A/A = Front Starboard side or Front Port side A short/A long. (either or position, not both)
    PW = Port Waist Gunner
    RW = Starboard Waist Gunner (typo should be SW on template)
    D = Dorsal
    T = Tail
    Ball and Top are self explanatory and a smaller separate round template.
    The 3 zones marked are (inner to outer) Low/Level/High.
    P = Pilot
    CP = CoPilot


    Not seen on each side are marked rectangles for each plane 1 to 44 for damage, PO 12 PI 12, SO 12, SI 12 (port and starbord engines, inner (I) and outer (O) with 1 or 2 hits). A pen was used to mark this damage.

    Each aircraft had a template with the same lines but each line marked in the correct O'Clock position 1 to 12.

    How to use it. Measure from nearest B17 to enemy look on template and with a little practice the amount of damage chits is quickly worked out. (Andrea found out just how deadly flying through the 'Box' (twice) was).

    The other template was a flack template. Each German pilot was given a flack template to use.
    Any 1 template could be placed anywhere on the playing surface.
    A template was in play until the first Allied aircraft flew over the template and off the template again.
    Only 1 template per player in play at any 1 time. Once used it was gone not to be used again.
    The Germans had 6 and I think they played at least 3 perhaps 4.
    Note: Any aircraft, Allied or German,flying over or on a template took damage as long as they were on the template, until the first aircraft flew off it.

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    The template was printed on clear acetate.

    The Game:

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    The Allies:
    Alexsandr flying a P51
    Michal flying a Spitfire Mk IX
    Pavel flying a Spitfire Mk IX

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    The Germans:
    (Pavel)
    Steve flying a FW190
    Lucas flying a FW190
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    (Steve)
    (Lucas)
    Andrea flying a FW190
    Zdenek flying a FW190
    Martin1 flying a ME262
    Martin2 flying a ME262

    The 'Box'
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    The 6 B17's start in the corner, allied fighters deploy next within 1 ruler of B17's, then the German fighters at least 2 rulers from any Allied fighter or bomber.

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    martin 1 and Martin 2 use the 262's superior speed to close in, supported by Andrea and Zdenek in 190's for a deadly frontal attack. Where are the fighter support for the B17's? Spitfires tangle with 190's but no sign of the P51. Meanwhile the lead bomber Green 1 is on fire!


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    You can just make out the O'Clock template on the bombers bases. and the peg stand in the distance is Alexsandr and his P51.

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    A close up of Green 1.

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    Zdenek is smoking the 262's have blasted through the box and Andrea is turning in the box. Spitfires and 190's still on the far side in their own private battle. Second flack template is down on the table. (Young Martin was doing sterling work pulling C chits which were mainly zero's for damage on the bombers).

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    Green 1 succumbs to damage.

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    Here's Alexsandr to save the day. 7th cavalry in the nick of time.


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    262's and 190's turn to hit the rear of the box. Bombers were at a fixed level unless they lost 2 engines. They would then drop bombs and head for home. Fighters could climb and dive 1, 262's could climb and dive 2.

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    Zdenek back in the fray.

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    Alexsandr flys through the formation to take on the 262's.

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    The bombers make their final turn to run in on the target city. Flak template already out. Martin picking the chits.....come on Martin more zero's. But the admage is mounting on the survivors. and a second B17 is on fire.
    It was around this time that Zdenek and Andre went down to the massed fire from the 'Box'.


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    Green 2 has the lead, the bombardiers are now flying the fortesses. The enemy are closing in.........Martin2 streaks into the formation on fire. Disaster Green 2 succumbs to canon fire, flak and heads earthward.


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    Martin2 turns...he fires....Blue 1 takes...wait for it...wait for it.....45 damage from 1 round of firing from 1 ME262.

    Daniel (Dan Sam) called time and we finished the moves firing.

    The Butchers Bill:
    Alexsandr flying a P51: RTB
    Michal flying a Spitfire Mk IX: RTB 1 respawn
    Pavel flying a Spitfire Mk IX: RTB

    Steve flying a FW190: RTB 1 respawn
    Lucas flying a FW190: RTB 1 respawn
    Andrea flying a FW190: Shot down twice (ouch) (won Bullseye Award for the most flying through the 'Box' shot downs)
    Zdenek flying a FW190: RTB 1 respawn (won Wooden Spoon Award for 1st player shot down)
    Martin1 flying a ME262: RTB
    Martin2 flying a ME262: RTB (won Deadly Aim Award for shooting down the B17 in 1 move)

    B17's
    Green 1: Shot down.
    Green 2: 42 damage on fire.
    Green 3: Shot down.
    Blue 1: Shot down by Martin2.
    Blue 2: 26 damage. Starboard Waist Gunner KIA.
    Blue 3: 37 damage. Port Waist Gunner WIA.

    Summary:
    1. Template worked but doesn't need 3 zones, 1 will suffice it's easy to work out damage. Will amend.
    2. Set up worked well. Speeded game up.
    3. Flak worked very well but may reduce to 1 flak template/2 German players.
    3. Bombers moved at slow speed due to bomb load. Worked well.
    4. Next try out...Lancasters.
    Last edited by Lt. S.Kafloc; 04-26-2016 at 15:04.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  2. #2

    Default

    Very interesting but definitely makes you want to fly a fighter rather than crew a B17.

  3. #3

    Default

    Very interesting! Love the attention to detail, flying a B-17 etc in this game is quite complex, are you templates available to down load and study in hand? I need to ponder the angles and scale . . . I am working up a number of big bomber layouts and would love to see how this works first hand. Thanks! Dave

  4. #4

    Default

    Great fun and very interesting - a smooth and well handled scenario, that gave German a hard time but the possibility to win against the pack of B-17s. When we played a similar situation in Modena, at the start of the month, 262s and 163s had no chance. Good stuff for thought!
    Martin has been one of the real aces of the Con.

  5. #5

    Default

    Great stuff, Neil.
    Nice to see all those birds in action.
    Your 'box' template looks really interesting.

  6. #6

    Default

    All the templates are in the moderation queue. I'll be working on ver 1.1 for the bomber arcs shortly. Karl (Jager) sent me the O'Clock arcs and they fit in with the B17arcs on the cards. You just have to simplify as not all guns that could in the game would be pointing in the same piece of sky at the same time. Each gun had an arc to cover and that was basically it.

    I think the most hits a German plane took was 6 - 8 chits from 3 aircraft.

    Also with altitude:

    Green 1 was at 6
    Green 2 and 3 were at 5
    Blue 1 was at 4
    Blue 2 and 3 were at 3

    This simplifies how many guns can fire. It also lets the attackers adopt the correct tactics to take on the 'Box'.

    The combat zone was 2 pegs to 7 pegs. Above or below this and you were out of the combat. No coming back.

    It also didn't help that for most of the game the defending fighter cover were pulled away from the bombers.
    Last edited by Lt. S.Kafloc; 04-26-2016 at 23:36.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  7. #7

    Default

    Nice mission with an interesting bomber defense system.

    I think Neil found a good balance between playability and historical accuracy when he explained his system to me before the game.

    I wasn't able to give it a try, because I hosted another game in this gaming slot.


    Well done my friend and thank you for this AAR.
    Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  8. #8

    Default

    Thanks for the effort, game, and template! Looking forward to the Lancaster version! : )

  9. #9

    Default

    Working on it as we speak.

    Quote Originally Posted by clipper1801 View Post
    Thanks for the effort, game, and template! Looking forward to the Lancaster version! : )
    See you on the Dark Side......

  10. #10

    Default

    Excellent Neil.
    I was sorry for not being able to try that one out.
    Maybe next time.

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackronin View Post
    Excellent Neil.
    I was sorry for not being able to try that one out.
    Maybe next time.
    What? Missed it? I have been mastering the art of "being two places at once while being no where at all" . . . Carlos Canstanada (sp?)

  12. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by clipper1801 View Post
    What? Missed it? I have been mastering the art of "being two places at once while being no where at all" . . . Carlos Canstanada (sp?)
    That's my wish for a present this Christmas, Dave. Ubiquity!

    If you know where it can be found... Please advise.

  13. #13

    Default

    Great looking game Neil. Can't wait to give the templates a go.

  14. #14


    Users Country Flag


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    Keith
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    Default

    Great looking game. I was initially surprised how many aircraft you had deployed but it looks great.

  15. #15

    Default

    I too failed to be in 2 places at the same time.


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  16. #16

    LOOP
    Guest


    Default

    45 dp in one shot!!! I'm glad I'm not at the recieving end of that burst

  17. #17

    Default

    262's deadly at close range.
    See you on the Dark Side......



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