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Thread: Thinking about color

  1. #1

    Default Thinking about color

    I've been thinking about color-choice lately, and I wonder if it would make sense to have an entire sub-forum dedicated to that topic?

    We would start off with a few sticky caveat threads. Those would talk about color-matching is an inexact science for various reasons (especially on the internet): metamerism, paint aging, gamuts, monitor calibration, lighting, the fact that the original colors were not 100% consistent, etc. In other words, "don't get too pedantic about this".

    But that doesn't make the color question disappear entirely. If you're trying to paint a British plane in standard PC10 base-color, there are a range of greenish-browns and brownish-greens that are believable and there are greens and browns that are not. The goal isn't to say "This is the right answer to match PC10"; it's to say, "if you want to be more-or-less accurate, here's a range of colors or paints that would be a good match to start with."

    Each particular color or color-set could have its own thread: British PC10, German 1917 day five-color camouflage, Italian 1916 roundel colors, etc. In there we could collect data (and their sources) about those colors, for instance the Methuen references from Windsock Datafiles, old copies of Over the Front, the studies done on the Aerodrome and other websites. Also conversions of those colors into other forms: La*b* colors, Federal Standard 595c, closest Humbrol equivalent, or maybe paint chip colors from common paint stores like Sherwin-Williams or others.

    I think if they're not in their own sub-forum, such threads in this main Hobby Room forum would get buried and lost. No one wants to pick through dozens of "What's on your workbench" threads trying to find French five-color camouflage notes.

    Comments? Alternatives?

  2. #2

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    Sounds like a good idea.
    Separate era sub-forums? ie. WWI, SCW, WWII etc?

    You didn't add scale fade to your list either, some people paint based on the perceived distance to the model based on scale etc.

  3. #3

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    I am certainly willing to help with information from Windsock Datafiles. I have quite a few of them.
    So how many books are in your personal library?

  4. #4

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    Given the collective knowledge of this forum, that could be a tremendous resource for the modelling side of the hobby.

  5. #5

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    A directory of Squadron Colors & Markings might be a good idea too. For WWII colors I rely on the chart at Paint4Models.net, focusing on RLM, BS381c(?) and US Army-Navy Aviation ranges.
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  6. #6

    matt56's Avatar May you forever fly in blue skies.
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    Default

    I think a centralized Colors and Markings thread would be a great resource for the Forum. The possibility for sub-threads would be amazing, and if information could be centralized there, it really would enable more effective access and use of information, not to mention sharing of it, too!

    All the best,
    Matt

  7. #7

  8. #8

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    Thirded. I think this would be a great resource for all.

  9. #9

  10. #10

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    Thanks for the feedback! I'm going to get started on this in a week or two when a couple things arrive in the mail (the Methuen sample book and a color sensor). I'll do a couple sample postings here on this forum as a template for the format.

  11. #11

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    "BLACK!"

    "DARK GREEN!"

    "BLACK!"

    "DARK GREEN!"

    "BLACK!"

    "DARK GREEN!"

    "BLACK!"

    "DARK GREEN!"

    >;)

  12. #12

    Dom S's Avatar
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    "YELLOW! THE PHOTO WAS OBVIOUSLY A LONG EXPOSURE WITH ORTHOCHROMATIC FILM!"

    Ahem....

  13. #13

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    All right, the toys and aids are ready, now to just find a lot of time. :-) What you see in this picture is a copy of Windsock magazine with paint samples for the RFC blue and red 1918 colors; the Methuen book that's used so often in these color descriptions; the Nix color scanner; and the nix software running on a tablet. The scanner is really nice, with lots of functions (albeit it's not inexpensive): you just place it on something you want to color-sample and hit the "Scan" button on your tablet or phone. It communicates via Bluetooth. It gives the output in RGB, CMYK, HEX, XYZ, and CIElab. You can select an illuminant between Daylight, Incandescent, A, C, D50, D55, D65, and D75 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_illuminant). It'll automatically compare the color against a set of paint libraries (3M, Arion, Beauti-Tone, Behr, Benjamin Moor, CIL, Dulux, Oracal, Sherwin Williams) and give you the best matches, in order. (Unfortunately no libraries for Methuen, Humbrol, or Vallejo yet, or FS595).

    Click image for larger version. 

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    And now, a test or two: Can I use dummyimage.com to convey those images on a posting here? (See my "never get it right" thread on cautions about RGB colors). (Don't read anything into these particular color choices.)
    Click image for larger version. 

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  14. #14

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    The other thing that doesn't help is so far the only color palette Ares has used is Pantone, which has almost no direct FS 595c counterparts and thus explains why the colors of their American WWII planes (Memphis Belle and any others in O.D. in particular) usually look "somehow off".

    I've been leaning on 'em to get a copy of 595c, and last I knew they were looking into it if memory serves.
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    I've been leaning on 'em to get a copy of 595c, and last I knew they were looking into it if memory serves.
    How soon can we arrange for you to take over outright? >;)

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    How soon can we arrange for you to take over outright? >
    Uh, probably three months after Hell freezes over, and not the one in Michigan. I don't want and can't handle the responsibility of sitting in the Big Chair myself, but I'm more than capable as an advisor to those who do. Think of me as more a "Gibbs" to somebody else's "Vance," in NCIS terms.
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  17. #17

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    What brands of paint do you (all) use for repaints and for shapeways painting? Vallejo, Humbrol, Testors, Tamiya, ...? If I hear demand for, say, Testors Model Master, I'll try to include that on the charts. If I don't, I won't bother.

    Unfortunately none of the hobby paint manufacturers provide their colors in CIELab coordinates, so color matching is very hit-or-miss unless I have samples handy.

  18. #18

    matt56's Avatar May you forever fly in blue skies.
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    I use Vallejo acrylics - and I try as best as possible to match the straight-out-of-the-bottle color as closely as possible to the artwork or the miniature so that I don't need to remember the number of drops of each color that got me to the correct mix. I'm horrible at keeping records of my paint mixes...

    Not that I am averse to mixing - don't get me wrong - the whole 'by eye' things usually works pretty well for me, and I will bumble around mixing until I get the color I want (or think looks right). The color as it appears in the Vallejo bottle through the plastic container is sometimes not quite what I was looking for when I buy it in the store, so even when the paint chip on the rack looks right, sometimes there's some tweaking that goes on. Granted, these ARE gaming pieces, so 'good enough' for the table-top plays a role, ultimately...

    All the best,
    Matt

  19. #19

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    Mostly Vallejo, then craft acrylic paints, Americana, Folkart, Craft Smart...

  20. #20

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    Vallejo, Citadel and ? Mister Kit "Authentic" acrylics, with Humbrol, WEM and Airfix enamels in reserve.
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  21. #21

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    For me, what ever is on the bench; right now, mostly Vallejo and Tamiya, but also Reaper and Citadel.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus



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