Originally Posted by flash
Uncle got in late this afternoon, long flight and plenty of archie, when the dust has settled he expects to return to his duties over the weekend, lots to catch up on by the looks of itWelcome back Dave!
Hope you enjoyed your furlough.
Added to your roster Rob
Sapiens qui vigilat "He is wise who watches"
Cheers Baz, lightly toasted and surfed - minor damage to my pins that has slowed taxiing around the field - Uncle will be into your AAR later today.
Hope you enjoyed your furlough.
Sapiens qui vigilat "He is wise who watches"
Got all the rosters up to date now and read four spiffing AARs - well done chaps - have now picked up my trenches mat so should be able to get into scenario 3 myself in the next few days if nothing else crops up.
Sapiens qui vigilat "He is wise who watches"
Thanks for the addition to my rosta Dave.
I should be getting my mats tomorrow all being well.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
Pounding away at Mission 3 as we speak. Its not pretty
I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
Coming down is the hardest thing
Good to have you back Dave. There is a modification required to my OPFOR roster, Sgt Ernest Meek bought the farm in the crash of his RE8 at Bourlon Wood.
Quick question for the experienced campaigners. I assume that scenarios missed due to crash and those due to escape/evade are cumulative and not concurrent? First time I have had planes go down in no man's land.
They are now concurrent.
In the previous series they were cumulative.
So whatever the highest number, either C&W or EET, that is what is skipped in The Bitter End.
I obviously needed my leave ! All sorted now Carl. They may need fresh meat depending on the next scenario.
Sapiens qui vigilat "He is wise who watches"
Your roster has been added to the Adler Late OTT spreadsheet Eric - lifted direct from the Early OTT one. Let me know if there is anything I can do to assist or if I got the wrong ones. Your previous Bulldog foe are also on the roster and await you over the trenches....
Sapiens qui vigilat "He is wise who watches"
Just one more week left in August gentlemen so get your Cambrai battles done and dusted.
I am looking forward to see what Shawn has to offer for his 'Weihnachten 1917' mission!
Still waiting for my new mats.Guess I'll just forge on and use the paper one so I can keep up and get Mission 3 in on time.
Played mine last Saturday.
Trying to find time to get the AAR composed ...
To make it easier I am thinking of recording as I go with Dragon Dictation or similar app. Take the photos, say what happened, fix up the text later. Then you can just cut and paste.Played mine last Saturday.
Trying to find time to get the AAR composed ...
Last game took me 5 hours to play and easily as much time to report, if using a dictation program speeds things up I'll let you know.
In any event I am looking forward to seeing the results from the two Peters!
Mine's played, photos sorted and ready in the album, just have to write up the AAR now.
Sapiens qui vigilat "He is wise who watches"
I type direct into the AAR & insert the photos as I go.
Remembering to save everything before the time limit expires & then go back & edit advanced to progress the story.
I am at the same stage now. 3 hours last night to get the photos trimmed and organized, and the Butcher's sorted out.
Now to write the story ...
You guys with the outrageous graphics must take a lot more time than us simple graphics-less sorts. Some of it is nice but I find some of it distracting.
I find them hard to read at times I must admit and I can't cut and paste the Tally or correct anything. As you know I write my AAR in Word noting where the pics should go; cut and paste the whole lot into the thread and add the pics. No time issues as the composition is done in Word & the thread takes about 30 mins to add the pics to.
Sapiens qui vigilat "He is wise who watches"
Next scenario will be provided by Paul (Tikkifriend) as Shawn is currently unable to get airborne, so, if any one wishes to move up and take on October's slot from Paul for early Jan 1918 then drop me a PM.
The SS D.III appears in Jan 18 if that tempts any of you
The running order is in the Rules sticky post #5 if you want to check it out.
Sapiens qui vigilat "He is wise who watches"
Dave, if you would like I can post a separate tally after the AAR where I usually add my "two bits" so that you can cut and paste.
Just the meat and potatoes - no gravy
Thanks Pete - yours is usually spot on so I rarely have to correct yours !Dave, if you would like I can post a separate tally after the AAR where I usually add my "two bits" so that you can cut and paste.
Just the meat and potatoes - no gravy
Sapiens qui vigilat "He is wise who watches"
Thats how I do it too. As easy as it can get.
As I don't find the C deck particularly conducive to bombing as 9 of the 17 cards are zeroes I'd like to look at the alternatives.
I didn't look at it before the last match so when I got to the game I made a quick and dirty decision to use my old home made C decks with 2 sets of zeroes removed ie 33 cards with 9 x 0's amongst them.
It got the job done but I'd still like to have something formalised that we're all happy to use, maybe involving the D deck as well as that rarely gets out of the box. It could even be graduated so that a big bomber with heavier bombs would be more effective than a scout with its lighter load.
e.g A straight C deck for scouts, a C deck minus 4 0's for a two seater's; C deck with no 0's for a Caproni/Gotha; a C deck with no 0's + a D deck (has 4 0's ?) for a Giant bomber.
Just an example off the top of my head but something to think on perhaps. We have to keep it simple and easy to use.
Any ideas what would be acceptable ?
Last edited by flash; 08-27-2016 at 04:24.
Sapiens qui vigilat "He is wise who watches"
Just rummaged through the C & D decks and I came up with this as a start point:
Scouts - C deck minus 3 x 0's. (16 cards, 6 are 0, 1 is Boom). 1 card drawn, no half load
Two-seaters - C deck minus 6 x 0's (11 cards, 3 are 0, 1 is Boom). 2 cards drawn per load, 1 card per half load
Multi engine bombers - Gotha/Caproni - C Deck minus 6 x 0's + D Deck (19 cards, 6 are 0, 3 are Boom). 4 cards drawn per load, 2 cards per half load
The Giant bombers - Staaken / HP O/400 - C Deck minus 9 0's + D deck (16 cards, 3 are 0, 3 are Boom ). 6 cards drawn per load, 3 cards per half load
Near misses count as half total drawn, rounding down.
This is manageable though may not reflect various machines loadout - some early two seaters could carry little more than a scout plane but that could be covered in scenario BRF.
Feel free to rip into this and 'do the math' if so inclined, I'm just struggling to come up with something simple and usable we can put into the rules. It does mean that some bigger targets will need to have a decent health total & we might need to consider a 'no explosion rule' like the Giants have but it may be worth the effort to expand our bombing options.
Last edited by flash; 08-27-2016 at 07:34.
Sapiens qui vigilat "He is wise who watches"
I am up for this, Dave.
I always thought the C has too many zeroes for bombing - fine for AA.
Too many chances for a non-result with the whole deck (as my Cambrai mission will show.
I don't think the zeroes are a big issue, historically a big percentage of these early bombs failed to detonate and accuracy was literally 'hit & miss' anyway.
If you want to increase certainty of damage we can assign damage points to bomb loads. For example each 10lb (5kg) of weight = 1 point of damage. Four 25lb Cooper bombs would therefore do 10 points of damage on a direct hit covering the centre red dot, 5 points on a near miss. I believe the bomb load weights for different aircraft are already in the campaign sticky.
I like Carl's idea of allocating Damage points to the various Bomb Loads & using half points for a Near Miss.
Much more accurate than using the C deck.
Its hard enough to score hits on targets without the extreme likelihood of drawing a Zero C card
I agree with Carl's assessment on the failure rate and less than accurate drops so the '0's don't bother me. I will go with what everyone wants.
I am happy to leave it up to the campaign moderator, that's why he gets paid the big bucks. Oh wait...........
I just had a look and it is already in the Bitter End campaign rules - http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...Campaign-Rules - and it is 1 damage point per 10lbs!
Bombs & Bombers:
Aircraft Max Bomb Load (Kg/lb)
Breguet BR.14 B2 - 256 / 564
Bristol F.2 Fighter - 108 / 238
Caproni Ca.3 - 800 / 1.764
Caproni Ca.4 - 1438 / 3.170
Curtiss H.16 - 105 / 231.5
De Havilland/AIRCO D.H.4 - 209 / 460
De Havilland DH.9 - 209 / 460
Felixstowe F.2A - 209 / 460
Handley Page O/400 - 1655 / 3649
R.E.8 - 112 / 247
S.E.5a - 45 / 99
Saml S.2 - 40 / 88
Camel - 36 / 80
Snipe - 36 / 80
Sopwith 1˝ Strutter - 60 / 130 (260 single seat)
Albatros C.III - 90 / 200
Rumpler C.IV - 100 / 220
LFG Roland C.II - 50 / 110
Halberstadt Cl.II - 50 / 110
Phönix C.I - 50 / 110
Pomilio PC - 150 / 330
Ufag C.I - 150 / 330
Friedrichshafen G.III - 1000 / 2205
Gotha G.V - 500 / 1102
Zeppelin Staaken R.VI - 2000 / 4410
The German P.u.W. bombs were:
12.5kg (27.5Lbs); 50kg (110lbs.) 100kg (220lbs), 300 kg (660 lbs) and 1000 kg, (2200 lbs.).
The 12.5kg bombs were internally stowed horizontally in bomb racks in most "C" types and "G"types.
The 50 & 100kg bombs were externally stowed in bomb racks under the fuselage on some "C" types.
300kg bombs were fuselage stowed under the fuselage of the AEG G.IV, Fdh G.III and Gotha G.II - G.V with the 50 & 100kg bombs stowed under the fuselage or wings.
The 1000 kg. bombs were stowed under the fuselage of the Fdh. G.IIIa, Fdh. G.IV and Fdh.G.IVa.
The Staaken "R" bomber could carry all the P.u.W. type bombs in internal racks except the 1000 kg bomb.
Info on British Bombs:
RFC used three types of bomb:
High Explosive (ranging from the 1914 16-lb RL bomb with 7-lb of TNT to the 1918 3,300-lb SN with 1,500-lb of Amatol),
Incendiary (from the 1914 Bomb Petrol Small with 6 pints of petrol, up to the 1918 Incendiary 6.5oz containing 2.5oz of Cendite in an Aluminium tube)
and a single Anti-Personnel bomb, the 180-lb RL (AP) containing 21-lb of Amatol.
HE type bombs: 10, 16 & 20lb (4.5kg, 7.25kg, 9kg) Hale & Cooper bombs could be strapped on scouts, 65lb (29.5kg), 100lb (45kg), 112lb (50kg) & 230lb [from 1917] (104kg) used against structures by FE2b's, DH4's, DH9's; 520lb (236kg) Anti sub used by RNAS, 1650lb (750kg) used by HP 0/400.
Bomb Values:
Divide the weight (kg) of the bomb by 10 & multiply that by two to give a value to the bomb damage. eg:
RFC:
10lb - 4.5kg/10 = .45, x2 = 0.9 call it 1
16lb - 7.25kg/10 = .725, x 2= 1.45 call it 1.5
20lb - 9kg/10 = .9, x2 = 1.8 call it 2
65lb - 29.5kg/10 = 2.95, x2 = 5.9 call it 6
100lb - 45kg/10 = 4.5, x2 = 9
112lb - 50kg/10 = 5, x2 = 10
230lb - 104kg/10 = 10.4, x 2 = 20.8 call it 21
1650lb - 750kg/10 = 75, x 2 = 150
RNAS:
520lb - 236kg/10 = 23.6, x 2 = 47.2 call it 47 (Anti Sub)
German:
12.5kg/10 = 1.25, x 2 = 2.5
50kg/10 = 5, x 2 = 10,
100kg /10 = 10, x 2 = 20,
300kg/10 = 30, x 2 = 60,
1000kg/10 = 100, x 2= 200
I know all about that bit in the sticky.... I created it !!
I wrote that up for someone else as a suggestion and parked a copy of it there as it's a question that comes up from time to time.
The problem with it will be knowing the bomb load out of the aircraft in play, some are straight forward like 8 x 10lb bombs on a scout (8 pts) or 4 x 12.5kg bombs in the belly of a Alb C.III (10pts), others may have a mixed load but to simplify it we could just give it the points for max payload and give it two half loads to drop.
Bomb Loads:
Machine ------------- Payload Kg / lb ------------- Damage full load / half load
Breguet BR.14 B2 - 256 / 564 ------------------------------------------ 56pts / 28pts
Bristol F.2 Fighter - 108 / 238 ------------------------------------------ 24pts / 12pts
Caproni Ca.3 - 800 / 1764 ----------------------------------------------- 176pts / 88pts
Caproni Ca.4 - 1438 / 3170 ----------------------------------------------- 316pts / 158pts
Curtiss H.16 - 105 / 231.5 ------------------------------------------------- 22pts / 11pts
De Havilland/AIRCO D.H.4 - 209 / 460 ------------------------------- 46pts / 23pts
De Havilland DH.9 - 209 / 460 -------------------------------------------- 46pts / 23pts
Felixstowe F.2A - 209 / 460 ------------------------------------------------ 46pts / 23pts
Handley Page O/400 - 1655 / 3649 ----------------------------------- 364pts / 182pts
R.E.8 - 112 / 247 ----------------------------------------------------------- 24pts / 12pts
S.E.5a - 45 / 99 ------------------------------------------------------------- 10pts / 5pts
Saml S.2 - 40 / 88 ------------------------------------------------------------ 9pts / 4pts
Camel - 36 / 80 -------------------------------------------------------------- 8pts / 4pts
Snipe - 36 / 80 --------------------------------------------------------------- 8pts / 4pts
Sopwith 1˝ Strutter Two Seat - 60 / 130 --------------------------- 13pts / 6pts
Sopwith 1˝ Strutter Single Seat - 120 /260 ----------------------- 26pts / 13pts
Albatros C.III - 90 / 200 ------------------------------------------------- 20pts / 10pts
Rumpler C.IV - 100 / 220 ------------------------------------------------- 22pts / 11pts
LFG Roland C.II - 50 / 110 ----------------------------------------------- 11pts / 5pts
Halberstadt Cl.II - 50 / 110 ---------------------------------------------- 11pts / 5pts
Phönix C.I - 50 / 110 --------------------------------------------------------11pts / 5pts
Pomilio PC - 150 / 330 ----------------------------------------------------- 33pts / 16pts
Ufag C.I - 150 / 330 ------------------------------------------------------- 33pts / 16pts
Friedrichshafen G.III - 1000 / 2205 -------------------------------------- 220pts / 110pts
Gotha G.V - 500 / 1102 --------------------------------------------------- 110pts / 55pts
Zeppelin Staaken R.VI - 2000 / 4410 ---------------------------------- 441pts / 220pts - maybe option to split load down further ?
That may be overly simple, using cards will give a variable result, with better results for the more, likely bigger, bombs dropped from bigger machines. You need zeroes in the mix but I don't think that over 50% duds is good and that our efforts on the table should be rewarded with at least some damage.
So which way would you like to go ?
I'm thinking if we go with set points damage, everyone knows where we are and you don't need extra sets of cards, it also makes use of the work already done...
Last edited by flash; 08-29-2016 at 04:12.
Sapiens qui vigilat "He is wise who watches"
I know all about that bit in the sticky.... I created it !!
I wrote that up for someone else as a suggestion and parked a copy of it there as it's a question that comes up from time to time.
The problem with it will be knowing the bomb load out of the aircraft in play, some are straight forward like 8 x 10lb bombs on a scout (8 pts) or 4 x 12.5kg bombs in the belly of a Alb C.III (10pts), others may have a mixed load but to simplify it we could just give it the points for max payload and give it two half loads to drop.
*******Snipped***********************************************************
That may be overly simple, using cards will give a variable result, with better results for the more, likely bigger, bombs dropped from bigger machines. You need zeroes in the mix but I don't think that over 50% duds is good and that our efforts on the table should be rewarded with at least some damage.
So which way would you like to go ?
I'm thinking if we go with set points damage, everyone knows where we are and you don't need extra sets of cards, it also makes use of the work already done...
Us Germans will have to capture some DH4s to even things up for 2 seater bombers.
I think we should go with the points system.
Haven't really studied this list before.
Might have to limit DH.4 to one per scenario ...
SE.5a does almost as well as most of ours!
The bomber is an offensive weapon. Since the Entente was on the attack throughout the war they invested more time and money in developing tactical bombers capable of delivering decent bombloads.
Haven't really studied this list before.
Might have to limit DH.4 to one per scenario ...
SE.5a does almost as well as most of ours!
Last edited by Carl_Brisgamer; 08-29-2016 at 01:42.
Bombs Away !!
We can adjust things through the BRF I should think, make the German targets less expensive than those involving DH4 so a couple of bomb loads from either side take things out, or lighten the DH4 load due to range...?
Seems most are in favour of points so far. I will transcribe the 'doings' into the sticky later and those wishing to do bombing missions can refer to that.
Before I did that though I had a look at the figures - clearly all I've done is divide the poundage of bombs to get a figure. Some are still pretty high and will perhaps complicate matters when deciding on target values.. So I thought I should divide the point values further, say by 2 ...
eg.
Bristol F.2 Fighter - 108 / 238 ------------------------------------------ 24pts / 12pts becomes 12 / 6 pts
De Havilland/AIRCO D.H.4 - 209 / 460 ------------------------------- 46pts / 23pts becomes 23 / 11 pts
Halberstadt Cl.II - 50 / 110 ---------------------------------------------- 11pts / 5pts becomes 6 / 3 pts (with a bit of fudging)
Camel - 36 / 80 -------------------------------------------------------------- 8pts / 4pts becomes 5 / 2 pts (with a bit of fudging)
Zeppelin Staaken R.VI - 2000 / 4410 ---------------------------------- 441pts / 220pts becomes 220 / 110 pts
I'm just thinking that this would fit better with the target card values we already have for trenches, AA & tanks...
And it won't tax our brains too much with the maths involved
I have done the whole chart and dropped it into the optional rules part of the rules sticky for now
Last edited by flash; 08-30-2016 at 03:28. Reason: Done it..!
Sapiens qui vigilat "He is wise who watches"
It will be August 31 here in Australia in about 40 minutes Paul.
Nearly briefing time.....
Steady men steady
I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
Coming down is the hardest thing
Admin: Hidden Roster Entries
As I had a few spare moments today I have tidied up the roster a little to assist with the admin of the campaign. To that end I have 'hidden' the as yet unused entries and those of whom are 3 months behind. By doing this it makes the roster much easier to handle and shows us that we are currently in a five a side match.
If this has affected you worry not. The data is still there just PM me when you're ready to get into action and I will restore your roster.
Cheers Dave
Sapiens qui vigilat "He is wise who watches"
As I had a few spare moments today I have tidied up the roster a little to assist with the admin of the campaign. To that end I have 'hidden' the as yet unused entries and those of whom are 3 months behind. By doing this it makes the roster much easier to handle and shows us that we are currently in a five a side match.
If this has affected you worry not. The data is still there just PM me when you're ready to get into action and I will restore your roster.
Cheers DaveSound decision Dave.
Just catching up on this Dave as I have been struggling with a *hitty head cold that has now gone down into the bronchial tubes.We can adjust things through the BRF I should think, make the German targets less expensive than those involving DH4 so a couple of bomb loads from either side take things out, or lighten the DH4 load due to range...?
Seems most are in favour of points so far. I will transcribe the 'doings' into the sticky later and those wishing to do bombing missions can refer to that.
Before I did that though I had a look at the figures - clearly all I've done is divide the poundage of bombs to get a figure. Some are still pretty high and will perhaps complicate matters when deciding on target values.. So I thought I should divide the point values further, say by 2 ...
eg.
Bristol F.2 Fighter - 108 / 238 ------------------------------------------ 24pts / 12pts becomes 12 / 6 pts
De Havilland/AIRCO D.H.4 - 209 / 460 ------------------------------- 46pts / 23pts becomes 23 / 11 pts
Halberstadt Cl.II - 50 / 110 ---------------------------------------------- 11pts / 5pts becomes 6 / 3 pts (with a bit of fudging)
Camel - 36 / 80 -------------------------------------------------------------- 8pts / 4pts becomes 5 / 2 pts (with a bit of fudging)
Zeppelin Staaken R.VI - 2000 / 4410 ---------------------------------- 441pts / 220pts becomes 220 / 110 pts
I'm just thinking that this would fit better with the target card values we already have for trenches, AA & tanks...
And it won't tax our brains too much with the maths involved
I have done the whole chart and dropped it into the optional rules part of the rules sticky for now
Thanks for your efforts on this.
Your Campaign Needs You ! Mission 5 - Early Jan 1918
Volunteers sought - Are there any other takers to take on October's slot from Paul for early Jan 1918 ? Drop me a PM asap
Sapiens qui vigilat "He is wise who watches"
Looks like Peter (Teaticket) will be taking us into the campaigns new year. Thanks Peter & Dale who also offered.
Sapiens qui vigilat "He is wise who watches"
Well done Pete.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
Hi Dave,
I was wondering if I could add a couple of Belgian scout pilots and a two seater crew to my OPFOR?
I would like to spice things up by fielding some Aviation Militaire Belge aircraft in next few months, if that is ok.
Belgian Bulldogs eh ? That's fine - do you have names in mind as there aren't many on my aces lists.
If not I will create some.... I have - they are on the roster !
Last edited by flash; 09-16-2016 at 11:24.
Sapiens qui vigilat "He is wise who watches"
Thanks Dave, much appreciated.
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