Feedback Needed

**7eat51** · 02-11-2016 08:59

Hi Folks,

I am helping a group of game designers in Germany with English language issues, rules reviews, etc.

They were planning on naming their company Fatherland Games, but that has raised some concern. Please let me know if you think that name is problematic for a German company designing and producing WWII wargames. Their usage of Fatherland is the same as English-speaking folks using the term Homeland, but, unfortunately, terms take on additional connotations.

I trust both of our communities ('Drome and Anchorage), and I have been amazed at the level of civility when discussing things. I respect both communities regarding military knowledge and sensitivity toward others. This is why I am asking you for your opinion/impression of the name Fatherland Games. The designers are at a place where if a name-change needs to occur, they will do it now.

Thank you,
Eric

**Tonx** · 02-11-2016 09:05

Sir, I can understand why the name Fatherland Games is both endearing as well as a cause for concern.

This has lead me to consider Heimat Games as a potential name as translated this means Homeland Games. This name also IMHO has a friendly and a positive ring to it whereas Fatherland Games does tend to sound a little on the dark and domineering side.

**7eat51** · 02-11-2016 09:28

Thank you, Barney. I will pass that on.

**csadn** · 02-11-2016 14:08

I tell Holocaust Jokes, and I'm telling you: "Fatherland Games" tripped my Bad-Taste-ometer; so I'm thinking it's a *REALLY* *BAD* *IDEA*....

**matt56** · 02-11-2016 14:19

I'm not sure there's a politically 'uncharged' way to refer to the 'fatherland' idea - Heimat isn't a bad way to go, but it could conjure up images of 'my homeland is not your homeland/you're not welcome in my homeland' sort of stuff.

Perhaps simply calling themselves Deustchland Games would be a reasonable solution - not really anything objectionable there...and there are enough 'Deutschland'-connected aspects to WW2 things that it would fit...

All the best,
Matt

**Tonx** · 02-11-2016 15:19

Matt. May I very politely pose a minor challenge to the above posting? Heimat Games if used to so many will just sound like a branding or a name unless recognised by a German language speaker. I cannot recall anybody using heimat defensively offensively or controversially since I first became aware of the word in a German song in 1986.

Halt dich fit, wander mit. Es die heimat ist schon ... Let's get fit, come wander. This land is so beautiful.

This doesn't sound like a 'my homeland is not your homeland/you're not welcome in my homeland' stance being taken in this song. I'd say quite the opposite in fact. Heimat was also the title of a TV series about German daily life which was exported outside of Germany to a number of European countries including the UK around about this same time. I watched this as I was learning German at school and attaining excellent marks in the subject and wasn't discouraged to carry on doing well by any aspects of what I saw on TV. The only them / us cultural discovery I made about actually living in Germany as a non-German was the way I was known as the gastarbeitet (guest worker) whilst based out of Leipzig with Lufthansa Cargo. That and Rotenkopf (Redhead - it's actually auburn not ginger but this was mildly funny at the time!)

If anything would conjure up adverse feeling by accident it could be the use of Deutschland Games in association with wargaming. The reason for my concern is that the first verse of the original national anthem (Deutschlandlied) starts with Deutschland, Deutschland uber alles. Since World War II and the fall of Nazi Germany, only the third verse has been used as the national anthem. The verse's beginning Einigkeit und recht und freiheit (Unity and justice and freedom) is considered the unofficial national motto of Germany and is inscribed on modern German Army belt buckles and the rims of some German coins. The use of Deutschland is also believed to have been avoided within company and product branding in general for this very same reason: The accidental generation of adverse feeling when in fact Germany is still very much a land of innovation and creativity: A land which these days is also prepared to learn lessons from history and which has done much to improve this once so tarnished image the nation had.

**fast.git** · 02-11-2016 16:29

Not sure of my stance on this... vaterland, or fatherland, had been used in conjunction with references to a German state prior to the creation of any such state. It's used during the 19th century and up through the 1920s, only being co-opted by the Nazis in the 1930s. It is not an inherently Nazi term... but is certainly associated with them.

A touchy subject I'll give some more thought.

**matt56** · 02-11-2016 19:15

There are many problematic aspects with all sorts of things German that have been perverted by their association with the Nazi regime - while there are certainly some absolutes, much of the connotations center on personal connections and family history.

Vaterland certainly was used long before WW2, and Heimat has many innocuous connotations having nothing to do with WW2, while Deutschland is the common name of the current country (as well as extolled as the Vaterland in the Deutschlandlied)...the same would hold true for a Russian company calling itself Motherland Games - that name might evoke unpleasant connotations, as well.

I think it ultimately comes down to the target market for this company, coupled with the recognition of the preconceptions and prejudices of that target market. Perhaps the safest way to go would be to avoid potential 'charged' language in the first place. Something like Zweiter Weltkrieg-Spiele (Second World War Games) would be workable - it tells the customer what he's in for, and it doesn't carry a particular agenda, either obvious or subtle.

All the best,
Matt

**fast.git** · 02-11-2016 19:16

Nice response, Matt. Well said.

**7eat51** · 02-11-2016 22:06

Thank you for your thoughts, my Friends.

I just swapped emails with Wolfgang, and they will go in a different direction.

**milcoll73** · 02-12-2016 03:31

knowing history i see the angle they were going for but yes, many others would take it the wrong way. especially in this day and age of rampant political correctness. might i suggest "germania games" as it would have meaning in both languages?

**Tonx** · 02-12-2016 03:43

Originally Posted by milcoll73

might i suggest "germania games" as it would have meaning in both languages?

Phillip might I just

you on this suggestion - this should definitely IMHO be considered

Germania is in use and very respected in the civil aviation world as an Airbus A319 / Boeing 737-700W operator.

Germanic Games - please add to this suggestion as another possibility but as inspired by this idea.

**Marechallannes** · 02-12-2016 05:27

Vaterland, Heimat, Germania,...

Here you can see a picture of the place where I'll start the celebration of my 40th birthday in June this year.

So I did 10 years ago.

I'll invite friends and will serve ice cold Rheingauer Riesling Sekt from a cool bag at the base of this statue.

From the terrace you have a wonderful view over my Heimat the Rheingau-Taunus-Kreis, the river Rhein (sometimes called "Vater Rhein"). It's one of the most beautiful regions of my Vaterland.

The statue is called Germania and was buildt after forming of the Deutsches Reich in 1871.

You can trace back those keywords right to the Napoleonic aera and since 1813 they are a firm ideas of German national identity.

I'm not afraid to use those keywords and to be proud of my roots, simultaneously many forumers know me in person and can confirm that I'm far away from being a nationalist and stand for a united European Union.

My opinion is, not to use such keywords for a German game company, and especially not for WWII wargames. The weight of those words is simply too heavy for such a project.

**Tonx** · 02-12-2016 06:22

Sven you are near Main-Taunus (Main-Taunus Kreis) and is Wiesbaden not far away as well? I used to fly regularly with a Command Pilot from Wiesbaden - Martin Wimmer.

You had better remind us of when you turn 40 in June this year as I am sure many Aerodrome Members would like to help you celebrate on here

**matt56** · 02-12-2016 06:37

The Niederwalddenkmal is a pretty spectacular sight, Sven! I've been down and back that section of the Rhein from Ruedisheim to Koblenz several times - my cousins live in Wirges (Rheinland-Pfalz) and a Rheinfahrt is one of the standard things we've done whenever a visit occurs.

It's a beautiful part of the country.

A lovely place to kick off your 'decade birthday' celebrations

All the best,
Matt

**Nightbomber** · 02-12-2016 07:13

Originally Posted by Marechallannes

I'm not afraid to use those keywords and to be proud of my roots, simultaneously many forumers know me in person and can confirm that I'm far away from being a nationalist and stand for a united European Union.

Yes, I can fully confirm that.
There is nothing wrong in proud of one's national roots. It differs us and strenghten us in a way as the world's population.

Sven is right about "not to use such keywords for a German game company, and especially not for WWII wargames."
Moreover, there is no need to narrow the company's goals by the name.

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 02-15-2016 11:25

Well said Sven.
Rob.

**fast.git** · 02-15-2016 11:50

Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte

Well said Sven.
Rob.

Agreed. Thank you for the perspective, Sven... and the same for you, Andy. We've an ongoing outbreak of "political-correctness" in the US which has reached near-pandemic status... so it's sometimes a little difficult to gauge the difference between legitimate offense and trolling.

**milcoll73** · 02-15-2016 22:47

Originally Posted by fast.git

Agreed. Thank you for the perspective, Sven... and the same for you, Andy. We've an ongoing outbreak of "political-correctness" in the US which has reached near-pandemic status... so it's sometimes a little difficult to gauge the difference between legitimate offense and trolling.

and understatement of the year award goes to................................