Although I purchased ten 2 seater minis I rarely use them. For a quick and dirty game I prefer scouts. This probably stems from their lack of maneuverability. Curious to know what other peoples experience is.
Although I purchased ten 2 seater minis I rarely use them. For a quick and dirty game I prefer scouts. This probably stems from their lack of maneuverability. Curious to know what other peoples experience is.
Hunter just loves the two-seaters. We probably fly them at least half the time and would be more like 75% of the time if he had his way!! We do alot of bombing missions and observation missions which Hunter creates himself, so we have lots of opportunities to fly them. We have nearly all the 2-seaters available, and at least one of each. The key is to make sure the game is balanced when you fly them, because they're pretty tough to go up against for even the best fighters. They really are fun to fly and add a new component to the game with the rear gunner. Suddenly gaining the opponents six isn't such a good thing!
Scott
My first plane was a two seater, but I quickly moved on to scouts. I still enjoy using 2 seaters but now more in mission based games.
For the longest time, we only used the scouts but now we are using the two seaters in just about half our missions. I think it adds a nice variety to things.
Probably about half the time (almost never for dogfights, usually just bombing or recon scenarios).
Now that we have the Biff it gets a lot of use because of its versatility, and because it figures so largely in the "Nigel" campaign. However, now that the SE5s have arrived at the airfield, I can see Nigel and co converting very rapidly to them.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
The American DH4 is alright enough, it's twin A/A guns, good speed, and good health make it a worthy two-seater.
The RE8 is a flying death trap though. Low health, poor speed, poor manueverability, and B/B guns means it gets utterly chewed alive in missions.
I enjoy flying the UFAG, although it doesn't get out of the box much.
I didn't really enjoy flying the Breguet very much. Didn't feel like flying, so much as puttering around and hoping I blast you apart before:
a) my rear-gunner gets hit
b) I pull an explosion card
I'm interested in the DH-4, but haven't taken one out yet.
The DH4 is almost a fighter-bomber - fast and maneuverable enough to keep most scouts out of it's blind spot. Until we get the Biff it's my two-seater of choic hands down. - You huns can keep your Rumpler.
I have to agree on the RE8 - despite being one of the most attractive minis I have with it's odd, broken-back lines I use it rarely and only for doing things either close to the lines or with a big escort
I like to play mission based games. So fly a two-seaters is my favourite choice in a scenario.
Attilio
The 2-seaters are powerful. They are excluded from the campaign unless it's mission specific, and then it's busy taking pictures, dropping bombs, etc.
The way wolfbiter designed our campaign, you either have two pilots, each in their own 1 seater, or a pilot and observer in a two seater. The progression is per individual, not per plane, so it evens things out. Only one in our group actually flys a 2-seater anyway.
I've always been a big fan of the Roland, even before playing WoW I always liked the look of the thing. I like two seaters as they add a dimension to the game that can get a little stale when just using scouts. The manouverability thing is not such a problem if you have two two-seaters, just fly them around in a circle defending each others rear. I've found it works even for a single two seater.
Wow! We use 2 seaters most of the time. Usually one per side with escorting single seaters. I'm surprised how few folks seem to use them!
We could add another poll now that the bombers are amongst us. how often do you fly a 3.... 5 seater etc. Bomber missions seem to be all the rage at the moment.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
I play with 2 or even 3,4... seaters if the mission requires it, as we use a random mission assignment.Recently I found the Zeppelin Staaken almost invincible but I rarely use it
I make up lots of two-seater missions for the guys I play with. Lots of recon, bombing, arty obs, pilot rescue, etc..It's why the fighters were made, "to shoot down the two-seaters".
We tried a couple of all two-2 seater games and they were very quick and dirty with all the extra firing opportunities. I.E. if two scouts 'just miss' they are usually in a back-to-back situation where they cannot fire, but a 2 seater can.
Your relationship with Biff is none of my concern sir. What you do in the privacy of your own home is your business
Seriously though the 'Brisfit' was a great plane and I actually have a family connection with it. My Grandfather was a master joiner and cabinet maker and had a contract in WWI to make the struts for them.
I understand from Ken that he is in the market for some new struts for his tripehound. Got any of your Grandfathers plans?
Seriously though, that is a great story. The nearest my Grandfather got to a plane was when one blew the tailboard off the truck he was driving up to the front. Now that is lucky, as 2 minutes before he had been sitting on the tailboard eating his snap.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
For campagine games I use 2 seaters for their ability to withstand punishment, I use a DH4 and an AEG III bomber. In at maximum altitude and out at very low level.
One problem we found with the 2 seaters is that they tend to get ganged up on pretty early. Once they're down...then the scouts just hash it out...gets pretty same-old same-old...SO, by using 2 seaters in mission specific roles, we were able to rejuvenate their use. e.g. recon, bombingg, save the downed pilot, etc. In those case, you can have an "unbalance" set-up. A scout with a 2 seater vs. two scouts...with reinforcements showing up randomly, or adding AA, etc.
There's a thing - fate and tailgates. One saved my life once by falling off.
Salisbury plain 1998 and yours truly was last in a packet of 14tonners racing between the supply base and a forward dump with a piece of paper that said I was full of ammunition. Chalk dust boiled up behind the trucks in front and visibility extended as far as my windscreen.
A glance in the mirror suddenly showed the absence of tailgate. Damn!
- the thing had dropped open, bounced out of its hinges and lay in the track a hundred yards or so back. - I backed up struggled the thing back on (trust me they're ****ing heavy) and carried on.
Next trip, going faster than before if possible - 55 in chalkdust whiteout conditions I saw in the looking glass the tailgate drop open again.
Slammed on the anchors, jumped down, ran round to the back, closed and latched the tailgate again and dashed back to the cab hoping the rest of the packet hadn't got too far ahead.
To find myself staring at an AS90 SP gun not ten yards distant and it's white faced crew. - They'd thrown a track and were tying to get it back on when my mates had come roaring past almost blind. They'd actually run clear as they were convinced I was going to plough into their track. That was close!
Angels on my tailgate or what?
Ah good old Salisbury plain (drifts off into nostalgic memories). Last time I was there was back in 1988 in good old Larkhill.
Were you with the old 'Rag And Oil Company' then or was it the 'Rickshaws Camels & Taxis'?
I remember following a Foden and FH70 once when the brake locked on the FH70 and he had flames coming from the wheel. Burning brakes smell really bad.
He He, I remember on the way to Beilefeld in 84 watching the 6chan vehicle in front slowly loose its cam net between the cab and the box body, it then proceded to wrap itself around the shaft , ever seen a Bedford stand on its nose lol
I saw one in Canada (BATUS) do the same thing with a barbed wire fence It was wrapped so tight round the prop shaft that it was almost a solid metal ball.
Then there was the Antar with a 432 on the back that lost grip on black ice going down the E3 autobahn to Dortmund in Feb 2005.........weeeeeeeeeeee.............did someone say jacknife? That took some time to sort out
Sorry what was this thread about, again? Oh yes 2 seaters. Come in high, keep weaving (to move your blind spot) and dive when they get close and below you. When you've completed your mission hit the deck and high tail it out of there. weaving all the way.
Last edited by tonyc206; 11-29-2010 at 05:39. Reason: Nostalgia
oh yes two seaters. My first WW1 kit was a Roland so got a soft spot for them. Not played too much with two seaters yet but hope to get a few games in soon, yes using the Roland & my Skytrx Brisfit
Oh yeah! We could go on all night - schermuly flares and cam net mixes, breakdowns I have had, the radio call from the fellah who flipped his Lanny ("I've rolled the rover over, over")
More beer, drinks wallah!
PS I confess to being RLC(TA) (after 6 years as a straight leg infanteer STAB)
when we play. we fly both at the same time.
Hmmmmm...
Interesting comment about the Breguet, Dave. I played a game against my youngest son tonight; he had a Belgian R.E.8 and a USAS Br.14B2, I had a pair of Albatros D.Vs (Albatrosses? Albatrai? Albatrossen? What IS the plural of Albatros?). Much to his dismay, I quickly had the Belgie reduced to flaming wreckage do to some lucky damage card draws, but not without some holes in both my birds.. The Breguet, however, was another matter, as his rear gunner could spit out as many bullets as my Albatros, AND... (much to my chagrin), he had a tighter turn radius than I did.
So, I'd have to disagree with your description of the Breguet (at least the American version) . We found it more akin to driving a well armed riding mower;... tight turn radius with lots of firepower.
Chris
Hi Chris.
Albatrai is the accepted form as used by most pilots in thr R.F.C. at the time.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
I have only flown a couple of missions with two seaters. One with and one assisting another player. I was impressed with the damage capability and durability of the American DH4. In a separate dueling two seater fight, however, the bombers seemed like two men on walkers chasing each other. They add a fun dimension to the game when used in a mission as has already been stated. I haven't tried out the Breguet yet. I hope to incorporate it into a game soon.
The only reason I purchased a 2 seater, was to curb an arms race. A member of our group bought a Roland and loved it. The moment he found out about the American DH4, he ordered one online and started trash talking immediately. So, I found a store one town over that had one in stock and bought it. I figure if everyone has an American DH4, they're less of a threat.
It worked for the Cold War.
I like giving the two seater a bombing, recovery or photo mission. That way there is a reason for it to be there in the first place. I like the challenge of the two seater having to fend off the pursuit planes and still complete the mission.
Two seaters need to be there for photo/bomb missions, but no call in dogfighting.
Ah, the first fighter-bomber; I see the point. Takes all the fun out of flying thought, like those American DH 4 with 2 x A guns...
Standing corrected... and grateful there are none around here.
Our group like playing Scenarios so the 2 seaters get a work out for Bombing, Recon etc.
They certainly add an extra diamention & realism to the game.
Only sometimes. As newbie in WoW I prefer fighter combats but sometimes we use two-seaters in specific scenarios.
At my local games club, because of time limitations, we normally plan to play 2 games, 1 with a single seater and then 1 with a 2 seater. We roll a dice for the first game to see what you get 1-3 single seater & 4-6 for a 2 seater (I know there shouldnt be any dice throwing in WoW then for the second game we take whichever one we didnt get in the first game. It means there is some variation in what we fly for each game and we are never sure exactly what we will be up against.
If time allows we then roll for each game thereafter to see what we fly.
I did buy a German two-seater, a Rumpler C1V. I used it once and it hasn't been out the box since, it's just too slow and unmanueverable for me to get used to. But I can see that some situations would call for a two-seater so I'll hang on to it.
I think I've been spoilt by my single-seater SPAD to use anything that is slower :P
They have overdone 2 seaters in the minis. They should have only made two types for each side, a mid and a late. They're slow sellers compared to the scouts, and putting them in 3 consecutive series was a mistake. They should have held off on a third type until series 6 or 7.
Too late now, but I hope the slower sales of the last few series due to the 2 seaters clogging the pipeline combined with possibly slower sales of the early (series 5) planes don't hurt the line too much.
I think where 2 seaters come into their own is by flying Scenarios where you have Bomb, Artillary Spot or Photo Recon missions.
After all in real life WW1 Aviation this was the "Main Game". Scout/Fighters were built to shoot down these Aircraft to stop their vital work. Scouts also took on the Ground attack straffing role towards the Wars end.
We have found we have great games playing these Missions with a Fighter Protection & a heap of Enemy trying to stop the Mission.
The games that I have played in have all featured 2 seaters. I agree that they tend to be targeted first and end up crashed and burned, but they can rule a dogfight if the pilot knows what he is doing and uses his escorts properly. Some of them (like the DH4) can just about hang with the scouts with A guns and 16 damage. Others (like the RE8) need to be screened to be effective. But it sure is nice to have that rear gun protecting the "6" of your formation.
Old thread but anyway....
I use my 2-seaters when it's necessary. For recon-, bombing and escortmissions. It is fun to fly and fun to shoot them down.
But for a quick dogfight I prefer a scout.
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