Just a simple question about the "Shoot at the real thing" optional rule.
the rule is only if you are playing with the aircraft cards and not the miniatures, right?
Just a simple question about the "Shoot at the real thing" optional rule
Just a simple question about the "Shoot at the real thing" optional rule.
the rule is only if you are playing with the aircraft cards and not the miniatures, right?
You can play it with the minis if you want (it is optional).
You'd have to agree to keep the miniatures aligned perfectly on their base - no twisting them to try to avoid a hit.
It might not work so well with a mix of cards and minis as the minis are larger than the silhouettes on the cards.
I think this was an original optional rule when the game started as a card game. You could use it with minis as Larry said. Personally I think it would be too much trouble keeping the minis straight and would take a bit more time measuring.
We've found it better to just use the base as it saves a lot of problems and helps the flow of the game. Cheers Aled
Yep, my group sticks to hitting the bases as well with the minis.
I too agree that using the bases is easier and less time consuming, as well as forestalling any problems. I have played in games both ways, but prefer just using the bases.
Cheers!
We use the Minis, no issues with it. Most everyone we pay with have been gaming a variety of WWI and WWII Miniature aircraft games for years, and are very used to using the actual Mini as the target.
Do you keep the plane square on the base during your games? One of the problems we have found is that some players try to turn the mini on the base too increase the distance away from the firer. Oftern the aspect the mini is left in would not reflect the planes last movement and can cause upset (to say the least).Originally Posted by usmc1855
If they have to cheat that badly, feel sorry for them and go play with someone else.
We've been playing shoot at the real thing with the minis, no problems. If needed just make it also a rule to straighten the plane and align it to the base before measuring. End of argument.
I also use the base to hit with the minis, but were do you guys measure from? I use the post? anyone use different?
We have no issues with squaring the plane to the base before measuring for a hit.
We measure from the Gun position on the plane, through it's designated arc of fire. We used to measure form the flight stand post, but since the arrival of FoTG rules, we're using the gun position, even on the small scouts and two seaters.
We moved to using the minis exclusively. We measure from the center peg of the firing plane to any part of the target plane. Sometimes we have to straighten out the target plane, but essentially have had no problems. The minis are a bit bigger than the cards. We are thinking of trying an optional rule which increases the measuring "stick" by 50% to more accurately reflect firing ranges...but haven't done so yet. The plus to the increased range is a drop off in possible collisions, more realistic ranges and a "bloodier" game
Our group tried the increased range sticks...check out this thread for a good discussion on the matter and results from the attempt by several people.We moved to using the minis exclusively. We measure from the center peg of the firing plane to any part of the target plane. Sometimes we have to straighten out the target plane, but essentially have had no problems. The minis are a bit bigger than the cards. We are thinking of trying an optional rule which increases the measuring "stick" by 50% to more accurately reflect firing ranges...but haven't done so yet. The plus to the increased range is a drop off in possible collisions, more realistic ranges and a "bloodier" game
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...ht=range+stick
Charlie...thanks for the link (I wondered where it was)...after reading through those posts, we might just bag the idea and stay with the standard stick...I did like the BIG move cards though!
We may be getting that big card out again...one or two of our players thought it would be fun to play with 1/32 scale models...I'll watch from the sidelines of the gymnasium they find to play in!!Charlie...thanks for the link (I wondered where it was
We use the plane, not the base.
My dad & I use the minis only. We just shoot from peg to base. Never even crossed my mind to shoot at the minis themselves.
We always play it as having to shoot at the actual minis, and just use the base for arc of fire and tailing type deals. No major issues.
We tried shoot the 'real thing' (mini) but then switched back to using the bases as we found it better to keep the flow of the game going. Another problem was that a lot of our planes tend to move about quite freely on the standard pegs, but we may look at it again after fixing some planes with Gimbles.
The few times I have played with minis now we have always used the "Shoot at the real thing" rules with no problems... but I could see it going the other way. Like so many of the rules in this game I think it just comes down to what works best for you and your group! I love how flexible this game can be!
Ken Head - "The Cowman"
You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it. Robin Williams
I'm used to using minis and firing at the base not the model.
Would be I right in thinking that using "Shoot at the real thing" gives a slight advantage to smaller planes such as the Dr1 (eg. compared to an Albatros or Pfaltz DIII), and disadvantages physically larger planes such as the RE8? If so, is this a noticeable difference compared to when shooting at bases?
Just wondering as I'm flying in tournament which uses "Shoot at the real thing" and I'm trying to decide whether to take a Dr1 or Albatros DVa. I prefer the Dr1 generally and can live with less speed, but it's so fragile. However, if the Dr1 smaller size is worth something (eg. the equivalent of an extra damage point, say), then I'll definitely be taking the Tripehound.
So I'd welcome any thoughts from any of you chaps/chapesses who are used to firing at models.
Hi Ralph,
I have a strong feeling in my bones that Time of Aces will change to using bases. We play tested it a few weeks ago and it was the prefered option rather than shot the real thing. We found that it did give an advantage to smaller planes plus it slowed play in that a number of mini's had a mind of their own and would require constant adjustment.
Shaun mentioned that it would be covered in the update that he is going to issue. Nothing else springs to mind concerning other changes and I'll check with him on Tuesday night and one of us or Scotty will get back to you asap.
Cheers Aled
Aled/Ralph,
That's exactly why we shoot at the real thing vs the base. It just seemed more realistic to us...smaller plane size aside. We do have to "fiddle" a bit to keep the planes "straight" on their bases, but the extra time it takes doesn't really bother us. With the mini's it just seemed odd to shoot at a base when often times the plane's wings, etc. overlapped it by quite a bit...that's why we went to "the real thing"
Hi Jim,
I agree with you that as the models are scaled it makes it more realistic to use shoot the real thing
The issue we have in Time of Aces is that the event is aimed to appeal to players of all levels which is always a difficult task and Shaun is doing a great job in this respect. Also that players only need one plane to take part which is used for all the missions on the day.
What we thought was for this event it was best to use the standard rule of shoot to the base to avoid possible issues on the day including misunderstandings and not disadvantage players who only have access to 2 seaters.
Another issue is that some players such as myself use the Col's fantastic gimbal mounts. Plus the high number of planes in the last mission 24 means that a lot of time could be lost checking all the planes are lined up correctly etc.
Cheers,
Aled
Aled/Ralph,
That's exactly why we shoot at the real thing vs the base. It just seemed more realistic to us...smaller plane size aside. We do have to "fiddle" a bit to keep the planes "straight" on their bases, but the extra time it takes doesn't really bother us. With the mini's it just seemed odd to shoot at a base when often times the plane's wings, etc. overlapped it by quite a bit...that's why we went to "the real thing"
When I first played WoW the whole "post to base" targeting annoyed me. Decades of wargaming, drawing LOS, etc had predisposed me to wanting to hit the model, not its base.
But, there is always a flaw in targeting the model as well, and for this game I think that base makes an elegant compromise. Its an issue with all wargames that I have played, and a joke with most gamers... One MM outside your range, and the bullet hits an invisible wall and the target is safe. The post to base targeting, to a point, elminiates this common game flaw.
By targeting the base and not the model you are showing that both the target and shooter are in motion and could be positioned roughly anywhere on the base during the second or two that the shooting phase represents. While the game mechanics require the planes to move very linearly, real planes would never move or fight like that. The planes are in constant 3D motion, the game only tracks gross movement. By going post to base instead of post to model, the game has included the 3D movement.
Also, shooting the model is problematic. The target of the plane is center mass, but the "in range" part of a plane in this type of game is usually a wingtip or extremity (especilly if players are clocking thier planes on the base to try and move out of range) - not the pilot or engine. Shooting at a wing, you are more likely to just tear up fabric then actually hit part of the frame. You can, of course, shoot down a plane by shooting at wingtips or the tail. But you are FAR more likely to take it down by hitting center mass - pilot, engine and fuel. This was, in fact, one of the core rules Richthofen taught to his Jastas:
My opinion, anyway.Aim for the man and don't miss him. If you are fighting a two-seater, get the observer first; until you have silenced the gun, don't bother about the pilot.
Zach
I think Zach presents a very good opinion/reason for "post to base" and summarizes the reasoning behind why our group, and others, choose to go with this model. Enjoyment comes first, and without changing the core rules and concepts (which "post to base" "post to post" and "post to mini" doesn't) the game is loose enough to cater to the desire of the local group.
Cheers!
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