If you had a choice of any four allied scouts, which ones would you pick to fight the Staaken with and why?
Tackling the Staaken
If you had a choice of any four allied scouts, which ones would you pick to fight the Staaken with and why?
Four-pack of Hanriots, preferably with A guns. Come in from ahead; hit with a s***load of A-deck shots; Immelmann; extend away; Immelmann back toward target; repeat; and always stay in close formation so the single-B-gun forward has multiple targets to go against.
I expect to be...
[sunglasses]
...STAAKEN UP FOES LIKE CORDWOOD.
B)
SPAD XIIIs - in WGF giant slaying is a slog, so no sense picking the ultra-agile - just take a pack of A gun boom and zoomers with as big a pool of hit points as possible. Although ideally I'd use Bristols, not single seaters....
I think a dimond of Sopwith Camels would be my choice.
Sturdy, well armed and agile enough to circle around the beast.
Voilą le soleil d'Austerlitz!
Camels, SE5a's or Dolphin's would be my pick!
The Dolphin with an additional up firing Lewis could be interesting!
How about a 1 1/2 Strutter Comic????
Nieuport 16s with rockets. It worked for the Forrsmann Triplane. SND International Skype Game - Slay the Leviathan
Although, the four Camels and two SPADs that went down made the rocket kill possible.
Mike
"Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
"Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59
Probably Chris Hedeby's A/A/A firing Bristol. You only need one and you can destoy anything.
I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
Coming down is the hardest thing
I'd choose 4 Se5a or Dolphins. But like you said Dom, a pack of Bristols would do the job.
Either up gunned home defence "Biffs" or "Dolphs" will do the trick.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
With scouts, I'd do what Dom says, SPADs, though Snipes or Se-5as will do the job too.
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
I would take 2 SPAD XIII and 2 Sopwith Camels. 50% speed, to take on the Staaken, 50% to deal with any possible escorts.
How about the Spad XII with the 37mm cannon? Someone had a card knocked up a while back for it. The cannon does C damage. A few of those might make an interesting game.
4 Dolphins and attack from below with the angled Lewis guns or 4 89 Squadron Dolphins with the wing mounted Lewis guns giving AA. Alternatively, perhaps 4 Spad XII's with 37mm cannons might be good.
Gees guys; give the poor Staaken a chance, will you? to be honest, any 4 late war scouts should take out a Staaken or even two, with a long enough matt.
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
Originally Posted by Jager
Ok then, how about some... Lets say 6 Airco DH2?
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
Se5's or Camels lets live in the danger zone
It's incredible that over England none ever did, even with a mat that size!
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
Well, how many mid-War designs does the Entente have in this game? Sopwith Pup? Nope. Bristol Bullet? Nope. Nieuport 11? Nope. All they have is the DH2, and maybe the 1&1/2 one-holer if that series is ever released.
SE5as for me - none of this up-gunned twaddle!
Just high speed boom and zoom, with the odd sharp turn thrown in just for good measure.
You want it challenging? How about a B.E.12!
i think id want 2 se5as and 2 sopwiths
Just one makes an interesting game Shawn !
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...s-Bombed-Again!
And as for other RFC 'what if' types I'd go for the AFB-1 which is essentially the same as the SE5a.
Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"
That's funny, I just ran across that AAR after I posted. Now I really want to try it!Just one makes an interesting game Shawn !
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...s-Bombed-Again!
And as for other RFC 'what if' types I'd go for the AFB-1 which is essentially the same as the SE5a.
I'll stick with the 6 DH2! I like the idea. But I can't try it out, I don't have any DH2 to fly with.
Nick
The Zeppelin Staaken did not come along until long after the DH2's had gone.
Yeah, I'm well aware of that. I just though it would be fun to try it out, and one of the reasons is exactly this one.
Not quite true... while no DH2s were in frontline service after 1916, some were still in active combat in the Middle East, and in Home Defence in 1917. The last one was taken out of service in Palestine in January 1918. with the last combat sorties in December 1917.
The BE2 in various marks served into the early 20s, in the bomber and recon role, and were still used as night interceptors for Home Defence in 1918.
The Cotton & Betts DH4 was re-tasked to take on Zeppelins so why not use it on Zeppelin Staakens !
Not a scout but what the heck !
Last edited by flash; 09-26-2015 at 02:17.
Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"
There has been some feverish activity at the Giants aerodrome. The mechanics have been testing Staaken engines all day and it looks like there will be clear skies tonight.
Glad you had clear skies; ours were overcast, so missed the eclipseThere has been some feverish activity at the Giants aerodrome. The mechanics have been testing Staaken engines all day and it looks like there will be clear skies tonight.
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
We had clear skies. No Zepps or Staakens spotted, but we did get a good view of the moon. Pity the focus was a bit off
Thanks David; I was going Googling later for some pics.
That would be an eerie sky to be hunting Staaken (or Lancasters) under
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
Thanks David nice shot
I managed to see it, but it was beyond the capabilities of my camera (or my photograph skills!) to get a decent shot.
Also, the light pollution is a nightmare around here!
Thanks for the picture, Mr Manley Sir!
I took one picture on 26 Sep, for comparison, which required 800 ISO, and 1/30th sec exposure.
On the evening of 27 Sep, it took quite a bit of fiddling to get anything. This image was 1600 ISO, and 4 seconds of exposure.
It is fuzzy, but ten more attempts were worse. Considering how bad the following attempts were, it is a miracle I got this one.
Mike
"Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
"Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59
I'd use a DH 4 armed with a COW gun…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COW_37_mm_gun
We had cloudy skies down here in Brazil, but just when the moon was going to be eclipsed the sky gave us a break. Right after it tho, a hell of a storm washed everything lol. As I consider myself an sky lover, I take some shots of it quite frequently, so it wasn't diferent last night. But, after Mike's super pics, im quite ashamed of showing mine ones, which were taken with a cell phone.
Thanks
Nick
I am in awe of the photographs that you did manage to get thanks chaps.
I must admit that I did not even get up to see the eclipse, as I have not been sleeping that well this week.I wonder why that is?
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
OK, just had to look for this one
From: http://www.quarryhs.co.uk/cannon_pioneers.htm
More interest was shown in automatic cannon and two different types saw service; the 1½ Pr C.O.W. gun (so-called because it was developed by the Coventry Ordnance Works) and the 1 Pr Vickers Mk III. The predecessor of the C.O.W. gun – the 1 Pr – was actually test-fired from an F.E.3 in 1913 (although the plane was suspended from a gantry rather than flying) and was also intended for the F.E.6 of 1914, but probably never was fired in the air, and attention soon switched to the 1½ Pr. The appearance was distinctive in that the recoil spring was wrapped around the barrel in the interest of compactness. Ammunition was fed to the gun via a five-round clip, meaning that only a short burst could be fired before reloading (the cyclic rate of fire was 100-120 rpm). Development work took a long time and it was not until August 1917, following successful trials of the Mk.III gun, that an order was placed for 90 of these weapons; the maximum which could be produced without affecting the output of other guns. By August 1918 the orders had increased to 450 and the urgency of the order was stressed but problems continued and only fourteen had been delivered. The end of the war saw the cancellation of the orders with only those under construction being completed, and in all about 76 guns were delivered.
Only in October 1918 was a British machine available with a cockpit designed for the gun; it was fitted in the rear cockpit of three D.H.4 light bombers, angled upwards at 45ŗ for use against the giant R-plane bombers as well as Zeppelins. A hole was cut into the upper wing for the gun to fire through. Aiming was the job of the pilot, who instructed the gunner/loader when to fire. Various mounting, handling, sighting and buffer problems were resolved and over 1,000 rounds fired but the muzzle blast caused problems and the plane required light alloy plating to protect it, as well as some structural strengthening. In the event, just three D.H.4 aircraft fitted with this gun entered service in November, and only two of these reached the front, but they had no time to see action before the Armistice.
The gun was also tested in the Tellier flying boat, a Voisin 8, two D.H.3A and a D.H.10 twin-engined bomber and was intended for the three-seat F.E.4 of 1916. Two C.O.W. guns were proposed in August 1918 as defensive armament for the big Handley-Page V/1500 bomber.
After the War, the C.O.W. gun was tried in various installations, especially in large flying boats in which the gun was intended primarily for anti-submarine work. The twin-engined Armstrong Whitworth Sinaia, the Short Cromarty and the experimental Vickers Valentia, all made in 1921, had provision for one in the nose. In the late 1920s the Blackburn Iris and Perth, similar three-engined biplanes built in small numbers, were also available with a C.O.W. gun in their bow position instead of the usual Lewis, and in 1932 the Short Sarafand had a similar installation.
Some landplanes were proposed as mounts for the big cannon. The Bristol Bagshot and Westland Westbury were twin-engined three-seat heavy fighters, designed to a 1924 specification for bomber-destroyers and based around the C.O.W. gun. The Bagshot was a high-wing monoplane, the Westbury a biplane, but both were armed with two flexibly-mounted cannon in nose and dorsal positions. The muzzle blast was recognised to be severe enough to damage any normal structure so strengthening had to be applied, and because of severe vibration on firing it was necessary to fit instruments and sensitive equipment on flexible mountings.
Perhaps the most remarkable were the two experimental C.O.W. gun fighters of 1931, designed to specification F.29/27 by Vickers and Westland. These single-seat, single-engined planes not only had a 37 mm C.O.W. gun as their sole armament, it was angled upwards at 45-55ŗ for attacking bombers from below. The installation was based on the theory of the "no allowance angle," at which the body lift from the projectile would compensate for gravity drop over an important part of the trajectory.
Despite all of this work, the only significance the C.O.W. gun achieved was to be used as the starting point for the Vickers 40mm Class S design, after Vickers had taken over the Coventry Ordnance Works. The remaining C.O.W. guns saw out their days on AA mountings as airfield defence weapons (some mounted on lorries) in the Second World War. They were not finally declared obsolete until 1948
Lord knows what this would do to the aircraft's performance
Thanks for the spur though, Barry. this site also has some interesting facts about the 2cm Becker cannon, that would have been used for some 1919 tank busting missions
Karl
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
Thanks Mike, very nice picsI took one picture on 26 Sep, for comparison, which required 800 ISO, and 1/30th sec exposure.
On the evening of 27 Sep, it took quite a bit of fiddling to get anything. This image was 1600 ISO, and 4 seconds of exposure.
It is fuzzy, but ten more attempts were worse. Considering how bad the following attempts were, it is a miracle I got this one.
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
I wonder how many scenarios against the notoriously hard-to-shoot-down bombers (and I'm sure Staakens will be doubly hard!) are played using the 'Extended Crew Damage' optional rules on p20 of the RAP, where each 'crew hit' card can potentially cause up to three crew hit effects on the plane's complement. I'm sure this would be a - while not levelling - helpful factor for the attackers.
Last edited by Prodromoi; 09-30-2015 at 10:25. Reason: Typo
Absolutely. I can not imagine toying with bombers without that option.
"We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."
As to the Moon eclipse. I also woke up at 4:30 that night to take a photo with the smartphone. It did not turn out as good as yours, but I am glad I took it.
"We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."
Had clear view of the eclipse here in the UK but didn't think of trying to take any photos ... Was able to sit and watch most of the time from computer room. Can just about see the moon in your photo Andy.
The moment I have a 3+ crew, this optional rule is an obligation.
I do not use it for twoseaters.
Voilą le soleil d'Austerlitz!
I don't consider using that rule; to unbalancing.
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
On the other hand we have +1 consecutive shooting rule in favor of bomber's gunners
"We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."
I don't know why people think Staakens are that hard to shoot down -- give the other side an approximately-equal number of hit-points and guns, then make sure the fighters focus their attacks rather than a "doorknob" ("everyone takes a turn"), and the bomber goes down.
Last game I had was a bombing mission over two maps, altitude rules (all started at level 4) and the Caproni Ca. 4 was escorted by two scouts versus 4 A-H scouts and 1 A-H twoseater.
The bomber made it to the target & back.
They focused on the bomber and failed.
If the giant does not simply fly straight over the map, it's hard to kill.
Voilą le soleil d'Austerlitz!
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