Ares Games
Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Engine Damage

  1. #1

    Default Engine Damage

    So I was playing a game and several planes all had motor damage. One was a Spad, so a fast A deck. I felt the engine damage made things sporadic. Sometimes I could plan the stall, then roar in for the attack like my plane was fine. Other times I felt like I couldn't hardly turn around. It got me thinking. What if when the A deck Spad got engine damage, instead of the sporadic "your motor works, now it doesn't" feel perhaps I could change decks to a slower deck. The plane would get slower with everything it did rather than just stalling every turn. Obviously this only works if you have access to all (or most) of the movement decks. This also doesn't take altitude rules into account.

    To illustrate this rule: if you have a very fast deck, A or N, they move 6cm for the straight. If you changed decks down to the B or Q deck respectively they have the same maneuverability but move only 4.7cm on the straight. You could make it more drastic and go to the J and D* (the D deck without the 90 degree turns) decks and almost half the speed to 3.5cm.

    Using the A deck that moves 6 cm normally, if you play 3 straights, you go a max speed of 18 cm per turn. With the normal engine damage rules that forces you to play a stall, your engine damaged plane now can only travel about 12.7 cm. With the proposed engine damage rules, the A deck changes to either the S deck reducing your speed to 14.1 cm, the J deck with a max speed of 10.5 cm. It depends how drastic you want the speed change to be.

    This opens a new interesting possibility with your second engine damage card. Instead of automatically removing the plane, you can take the second engine damage card and drop down another speed rating. To Illustrate: Your Nieuport 17 draws an engine damage, now you fly with the E deck. It is slower, but you still have your Immalmann turn. You draw a second engine damage card, well now you fly with the very slow speed XA deck and you lose your Immalmann.

    So, I'll try to line out some of the deck progressions. I'll go with only dropping down one speed band and allowing a plane to take multiple engine damage cards with a speed reduction with each one. Just find your deck, and the deck to the right is the next slowest deck. Basic rule of thumb, if the original deck doesn't have the maneuver of the new deck, take that maneuver out. Very wide sideslips are an exception, in most cases they are replaced by wide sideslips.
    A -> S -> V-> R or T -> XD -> XC -> XA
    N -> Q -> W -> T -> XD ->XC -> XA
    B -> J -> R or T-> XD ->XC -> XA
    C -> D (minus the wide side slips) -> R or T -> XD ->XC -> XA
    U -> D -> E -> XD ->XC -> XA
    H -> K -> T (minus the immelmann) -> XD ->XC -> XA
    L -> W -> T -> XD ->XC -> XA (this one breaks the rule of thumb)
    M -> I -> E -> XD ->XC -> XA
    O -> I -> E -> XD ->XC -> XA
    Q-> W -> XD ->XC -> XA
    G -> XD ->XC -> XA


    For the above I reference the WOW Movement A-XD file uploaded by Linz http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...do=file&id=951
    to check that there were the same number of sideslips and such.
    I also referenced Tools for Working out Stats uploaded by petitbilbo and the rules committee for the movement deck speeds and agility tables http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...do=file&id=959

    Bottom line, it makes engine damage slow everything down. It does weakens the effect of one engine damage card, but allows you to sustain multiple engine damage cards and your plane flies more and more like a brick as your engine fails. If you have the movement decks, it is an easy way to use engine damage without having to remember to play that darn stall. It you think that waters down engine damage too much, fire and smoke could count as engine damage if you already have engine damage.

    What do you think?
    Last edited by diceslinger; 09-18-2015 at 09:24. Reason: Added Flash's suggestions

  2. #2

    Default

    This progression with engine damage is a way to go if you wish to keep aircraft in a game but as you say is very dependent on having the slower decks available and enough of them in bigger games. I suggested a similar use of slower decks for bomb laden aircraft a little while back to avoid the 'jerky' one stall per turn movement and have used it successfully at an event, switching up to higher speed once the eggs were dropped.
    I would suggest subbing the T deck in for the rarer R deck: A>S>V>T (cards are the same) and the K & V decks are the same speed K>T would fit the bill though. You could also factor in the W deck as the slower Q deck as they share the same card base.
    I used my WoG Manoeuvre Breakdown doc as ref: http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...o=file&id=2043

    "He is wise who watches"

  3. #3

    LOOP
    Guest


    Default

    I like the sporadic feel. It criple your AC way more than a deckchange. Any three card move needs to be planed with much more care.
    It's not the speed that is the issue it is the steep-sign of the stall. It affect aircrafts very differently. The N-deck and Q-deck suffer more than F-deck due to the steep 90-turn.

  4. #4

    Default

    For my 2cents stick to the rule book. Keep game simple as possible

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grumpybear View Post
    For my 2cents stick to the rule book. Keep game simple as possible
    +1

  6. #6

    Default

    For the sake of simplicity I play the official rules for engine damage but I have tried and found OK a variant of being forced to play either a Stall or a Dive each turn. This, of course, assumes you play some kind of altitude rules. It's less work than fiddling around with the movement decks and makes more thematic sense and gives you extra options.

  7. #7

    Default

    Now that I got some Engine Damage markers from the Oberst I find it much easier to keep track of aircraft with engine damage.
    (Why did they not include any in the Rules and Accessories Pack )

    The detail-geek in me likes the suggestions in this thread, but the gamer in me says KISS

  8. #8

    Default

    Some good points. Thanks Dave, your thoughts about the decks are great. I didn't have all of the decks in front of me, so I'll take a look and revise a bit. I thought I remembered this sort of deck progression idea, it must have been from your bomb laden idea. I can't seem to find your post on it, can you point me to it? Thanks for the Maneuver Deck Breakdown link too. So often it is hard to find the updated resources when new planes come out.

    I agree that having to play the stall card makes you plan in a different way. I'm just looking for a game mechanic that models a drop in horsepower better. Part of what I don't care for is that you can still immelmann if you plan the sequence correctly. Your motor is broken so you can't turn 180 degrees as fast, but you can perform an immelmann? That seems strange. Just looking for a little more elegance.

    I hear you about keeping it simple. I don't typically do a lot of house rules because I agree with you. I play a lot of solo games, and I find that I tend to forget to plan the stall every turn, and it affects the charts a bit oddly because they aren't really built for it. Switching the decks removes some of that issue. And, to address Dave's point about keeping planes flying longer, I usually go for that with solo games. Keeping planes flying helps with story lines for me. So that is where this house rule is coming from. I don't know that I would try it in a beer and pretzels gaming session.

    Keep the feedback coming, I'm finding it helpful!

  9. #9

    Default

    Thanks Dave, I haven't gotten to play the W deck yet, so it was totally off my radar. I also swapped it in the progression for the N deck, and the L deck. That's good, cause I felt like the L deck got hit pretty hard going straight to the I deck. I appreciate the help!

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LOOP View Post
    I like the sporadic feel.
    I've always interpreted this as a roughly-running engine... sometimes the rpms are there, sometimes not so much. But that's coming from someone without any practical experience with aircraft engines, so I'm far from a definitive source.

    I'll certainly give the engine degradation idea a go, though, as it's an intriguing house rule.

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by diceslinger View Post
    ... I thought I remembered this sort of deck progression idea, it must have been from your bomb laden idea. I can't seem to find your post on it, can you point me to it? ....
    Found it ! http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...uts-with-bombs Post #7
    Have a look at the FotG rules as well, if you haven't already as they might give some further ideas.

    "He is wise who watches"

  12. #12

    Default

    thats a very interesting idea. especially for campaigns and scenarios. for the friendly game night get together i think id stick with the rules for the sake of simplicity but i do like the idea of reflection lessened horsepower availability. i always interpreted having to play the stall as a rough running engine missing from time to time like you always hear in movies and tv. but other damage could just as easily leave the engine running relatively smoothly but degrade the hp output with corresponding degradation of flight performance.



Similar Missions

  1. Diving with Engine Damage
    By Pseudotheist in forum WGF: Rules Help
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 07-19-2014, 05:20
  2. Fire Damage with engine damage?
    By gully_raker in forum WGF: Rules Help
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 05-22-2014, 01:59
  3. Incendiary Bullets causing engine damage
    By celticgriffon in forum WGF: Rules Help
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-12-2013, 04:50
  4. Engine damage & Immelmann
    By Marechallannes in forum WGS: Rules Help
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-10-2013, 08:42
  5. Fokker D.VII non-steep "Stall" and ENGINE damage
    By Bruce in forum WGF: Rules Help
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-20-2012, 21:22

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •