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Thread: Americans in wartime Museum Openhouse

  1. #1

    Default Americans in wartime Museum Openhouse

    For those interested in things other than planes I want to get the word out about the open house at the tank museum in Nokesville, Va on 3 & 4 Oct. There are a number of tanks on display and some run around the track. Here are a few photos of one of the events I went to.

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  2. #2

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    I plan to attend. I had fun last year (I still remember the heat of the flamethrower they demonstrated!). There are more tanks than you can shake a stick at. My wife will also be there with her French Resistance unit.

  3. #3

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    Nice pics. I wonder how many damage points it would take to knock out one of those

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter View Post
    Nice pics. I wonder how many damage points it would take to knock out one of those
    On my to do list
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter View Post
    Nice pics. I wonder how many damage points it would take to knock out one of those
    "Knock out" from above -- any C or D draw which inflicts non-0 damage (0.50s are nice, but can't quite do the job, even from above, save via blind luck). To actually destroy it: Probably between 30 and 50 pts., depending on the tank (and if it's a US tank, pray one doesn't get Fire results).

  6. #6

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    nice pics! thats the 1st restored m3 grant ive seen.

  7. #7

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    Wish I was closer - still have to make it to Aberdeen, Maryland, someday ....

  8. #8

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    Here is a link to a relevant article. Based on its contents, maybe only only D damage weapons should be counted.
    http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/04/04/g...-tank-busters/

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  10. #10

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    Nice tanks.

    I once saw a driving Tiger II in the French musee de blindes saumur.

    Most impressive.
    Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    Wish I was closer - still have to make it to Aberdeen, Maryland, someday ....
    Completely agree. Went as a kid, like a thousand years ago. Very cool.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    Wish I was closer - still have to make it to Aberdeen, Maryland, someday ....
    Haven't they moved all the kit from APG to somewhere else?
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  13. #13

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guntruck View Post
    Haven't they moved all the kit from APG to somewhere else?
    A friend of mine was there 3 or 4 years ago. Gave me tons of pics on DVD.
    He will be down from BC next weekend - I will ask him.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naharaht View Post
    Here is a link to a relevant article. Based on its contents, maybe only only D damage weapons should be counted.
    http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/04/04/g...-tank-busters/
    If he's right, then airplanes shouldn't be able to kill tanks at all, which renders the whole ground-attack portion of the game irrelevant.

    For both sides.

  16. #16

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    Another look at some of the vehicles there. A universal carrier and a Lee in the background.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    If he's right, then airplanes shouldn't be able to kill tanks at all, which renders the whole ground-attack portion of the game irrelevant.

    For both sides.
    Well, there's a lot more targets around than tanks; trucks, artillery, etc.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobP View Post
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    Another look at some of the vehicles there. A universal carrier and a Lee in the background.
    A Lee or a Grant?
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  19. #19

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    A Grant.

    The Lee should have another, smaller MG turret mounted on top of the main turret.

    Great pictures! Got any more?

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naharaht View Post
    Here is a link to a relevant article. Based on its contents, maybe only only D damage weapons should be counted.
    http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/04/04/g...-tank-busters/
    while i dont doubt that claims were wildly overestimated (in the heat of combat multiple a/c might be firing at the same target or successive a/c firing at still active targets thought destroyed by earlier a/c) i think the article undervalues ground attack a/c.. after readin accounts of 12th ss hj in normandy the germans seemed to have a pretty healthy respect for jabos.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by milcoll73 View Post
    while i dont doubt that claims were wildly overestimated (in the heat of combat multiple a/c might be firing at the same target or successive a/c firing at still active targets thought destroyed by earlier a/c) i think the article undervalues ground attack a/c.. after readin accounts of 12th ss hj in normandy the germans seemed to have a pretty healthy respect for jabos.
    True; however, there's a difference between perception and fact. Also, since the soft-skinned vehicles are quite vulnerable to attack, and the tanks can't do much without fuel and ammo not to mention their support units (artillery, infantry, etc), the effect on armor operations by air attack can be significant, without destroying a single tank. And since there are numerous accounts of tanks crews panicking from even unexpected MG fire, being attacked from the air with no real means to fight back, can be quite demoralizing. The possible effects can seem actual.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  22. #22

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    Hmm... for our purposes, I glad we don't need to differentiate between hard and soft kills. But I wonder if a different approach might work? Rather than an accumulation of damage points, would it be easier and/or more representative of records to assign each type of target a threshold? Pull a damage card/chit that equals or exceeds the threshold (or is a BOOM card) and the target is destroyed/disrupted/whatever you wish to call it. Pull a damage card/chit below the threshold and it keeps chugging on and the card/chit is discarded.

    Soft-skilled targets would be assigned a lower damage number, AFVs and reinforced structures higher numbers. I'm not as familiar with the WW2 damage probabilities, but I wouldn't kill a WW1 tank with anything less than a 4 or 5. I like a 5, but that seems overly harsh considering how few are in a damage deck.

    I think Peter ("Teaticket") did something similar in his "Tank Dash" scenario. If not, apologies for my bad memory.

    Either way, I'll think on this some more.

  23. #23

    matt56's Avatar May you forever fly in blue skies.
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    Always have loved the Hetzer - it's always amazed me how small it is. When I visited my cousins in Germany for the first time in '72, we were on our way from their house down to Switzerland (to Luzern) - and we had to wait on one side of a covered bridge while a Swiss Army Hetzer (upgunned to a 90mm cannon) made its way through from the other side first...for a high school kid who was totally into German armor, it was quite a highlight of the trip!

    That IS an M3 Grant done up in desert camo behind the Bren Carrier; the M3 Lee is the one at the left of the line-up of the American vehicles (Bob's second picture).

    Thanks for posting these, Bob! Great stuff

    All the best,
    Matt

  24. #24

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    There's also the simple fact: Tanks aren't armored the same everywhere -- a 20- or 30mm shell wouldn't penetrate the forward armor of most tanks; but one through the engine decking....

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    There's also the simple fact: Tanks aren't armored the same everywhere -- a 20- or 30mm shell wouldn't penetrate the forward armor of most tanks; but one through the engine decking....
    That's a fair point.

    Agree about the Hetzer. A lot of punch in a little package. First time I saw one, I thought it was a 3/4 mock-up.

  26. #26

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    If only I could get some of those nice little Italian Tanks to bomb.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    If only I could get some of those nice little Italian Tanks to bomb.
    Rob.
    And what's the sport in that; might as well shoot up some tin cans
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    A friend of mine was there 3 or 4 years ago. Gave me tons of pics on DVD.
    He will be down from BC next weekend - I will ask him.
    The Ordnance Museum was closed in Sept of 2010. It has since moved to Ft. Lee, Virginia. This was done when Congress closed Aberdeen and several other bases. I was lucky enough to see several of the vehicles rolling down the interstate on lowboys. No real news on when or if it will reopen (the usual budget concerns). Sad to see as I live less than 2 hours from Aberdeen. Latest I read was that they were trying to get the vehicles into a permanent building for display at Ft. Lee. Nothing yet on the collection being open for viewing. Happened about the same time that the bulk of the Patton Museum moved to Ft. Benning.

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt56 View Post
    Always have loved the Hetzer - it's always amazed me how small it is. When I visited my cousins in Germany for the first time in '72, we were on our way from their house down to Switzerland (to Luzern) - and we had to wait on one side of a covered bridge while a Swiss Army Hetzer (upgunned to a 90mm cannon) made its way through from the other side first...for a high school kid who was totally into German armor, it was quite a highlight of the trip!

    That IS an M3 Grant done up in desert camo behind the Bren Carrier; the M3 Lee is the one at the left of the line-up of the American vehicles (Bob's second picture).

    Thanks for posting these, Bob! Great stuff

    All the best,
    Matt
    i got to stand in one at the 1st big reenactment i went to back in the 90s. i was amazed at just how small they were. sort of a tracked, armored and well armed VW.

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by milcoll73 View Post
    i got to stand in one at the 1st big reenactment i went to back in the 90s. i was amazed at just how small they were. sort of a tracked, armored and well armed VW.

    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  31. #31

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    Wrong ID by me for the one photo. Behind the universal carrier is a Grant. The Lee is in the lineup of tanks on the far left.

  32. #32

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    Steve I have been told that the tanks at Aberdeen have been to different places. I should take a drive there one day to see if there is anything there.

  33. #33

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    Next week is the open house at the tank farm. Here are two photos form the Reading air show a few years back. A few of you mentioned the Hetzer, Here is a photo of a StuG III.
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  34. #34

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    Just hecked the site and as with other events this weekend the open house is also cancelled. Get to sleep in Saturday I guess.

  35. #35

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    That's a shame Bob. This event reminds me of the War & Peace show in Kent - an enormous gathering of tanks, vehuicles & re-enactors, considered to be the worlds largest !

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_and_Peace_Revival
    http://www.kentonline.co.uk/folkesto...is-over-38990/
    https://www.facebook.com/warandpeacerevival

    "He is wise who watches"

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobP View Post
    Just hecked the site and as with other events this weekend the open house is also cancelled. Get to sleep in Saturday I guess.
    Yeh, it looks like the whole East Coast is shutting down for the weekend
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  37. #37

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    Great photo Dave. It is a good event to see the tanks moving even if only in a circle. The number of vehicles he owns is something else. I think he has about 60 and most of them run. The reenactors also add to the event.

  38. #38

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    Not mine sadly, haven't been there for years, last time I went I had to stop and give way to a StuG III festooned with SS men - well you would wouldn't you !

    "He is wise who watches"



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