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Thread: Collisions with Multiple Plans

  1. #1

    Sam_Charette
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    Default Collisions with Multiple Plans

    So a scenario came up in a game yesterday that I want to verify that we did it right.

    So we weren't playing with altitudes. 3 planes on 3 planes. One plane for each of us heads off to one side and face off. Mine guns his down quickly. The other four, all four, collide together in the same turn. Each plane is overlapping 3 others. So each plane took 3 C damage and all went down in one big ball of flame (more of less).

    Is that accurate? One C per plane you are overlapping with in a phase?

  2. #2

    Default

    That's correct, technically.

    Two overlapping airplanes collide if:
    1. they are both at the same altitude, and
    2. they either both have climb counters (no matter how many) or they both have no climb counters.

    Each colliding airplane takes a "C" damage card/counter for each airplane, enemy or friend, it collides with. Only damage points and explosions have effect; other types of special damage are ignored. [RAP: p16 WGF, p17 WGS]

    ----------------------------------

    The problem with this, and why I offered the qualifier, is that (per the RAP) collisions are considered an advanced rule and presume the use of altitude rules.

    A number of forum members have adopted the House Rule that overlapping another aircraft's base (such that you're covering the peg) is a collision, regardless of whether or not altitude rules are in use: this is what I use during convention play, when I don't wish to complicate matters for potentially new/inexperienced players.
    Last edited by fast.git; 08-30-2015 at 06:26. Reason: Emphasis Added

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by fast.git View Post

    A number of forum members have adopted the House Rule that overlapping another aircraft's base (such that you're covering the peg) is a collision, regardless of whether or not altitude rules are in use: this is what I use during convention play...
    To add to this, to cut down on the demolition derby I use the collision cards found in the Files section. When there is overlap of a peg, both planes draw a collision card. The cards match up in a way to lessen the chances of collision. It still happens though!

  4. #4

    Sam_Charette
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    Default

    That does make a lot of sense. We've been adding rules slowly, and altitude seemed a little more complicated, but collisions didn't, so we just rolled with it. It was hilarious to watch though

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    To add to this, to cut down on the demolition derby I use the collision cards found in the Files section. When there is overlap of a peg, both planes draw a collision card. The cards match up in a way to lessen the chances of collision. It still happens though!
    Good point, Peter. I forgot to mention the collision cards. They're a great addition to the game.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Charette View Post
    That does make a lot of sense. We've been adding rules slowly, and altitude seemed a little more complicated, but collisions didn't, so we just rolled with it. It was hilarious to watch though
    The altitude rules, as written, can be a little fiddly. Several members have suggested simpler rules... I'm not at my computer now, but will see if I can dig up a couple of links late today.

  7. #7

    Default

    I further qualify a collision as occurring if the peg (or red dot) of BOTH planes overlap the base of the other; playing at conventions, and therefore excluding altitude for ease of introducing new players, including children, to our games, we found that simple base overlaps produced a kind of "demolition derby" of collisions. Counting a collision only if one plane's peg or red dot overlaps another base meant that the two must be much closer to each other than for a simple corner overlap; still too many collisions though, so we tried counting collisions only when BOTH planes have their peg within the base of the other plane - this reduced the number of collisions to an acceptable level.

  8. #8

    Default

    Altitude is as necessary to fly as submerging is necessary to a sub . With climb counters some collisions will not happen. So I would suggest you find an altitude system that works for you and use it always. It gets easer as you use it

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpybear View Post
    Altitude is as necessary to fly as submerging is necessary to a sub . With climb counters some collisions will not happen. So I would suggest you find an altitude system that works for you and use it always. It gets easer as you use it
    true but it still slows down gameplay.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpybear View Post
    Altitude is as necessary to fly as submerging is necessary to a sub.
    Totally agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by milcoll73 View Post
    true but it still slows down gameplay.
    It certainly can... especially as written. There are a number of house rule tweaks, however, which make it much more manageable.

  11. #11

    LOOP
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpybear View Post
    Altitude is as necessary to fly as submerging is necessary to a sub . With climb counters some collisions will not happen. So I would suggest you find an altitude system that works for you and use it always. It gets easer as you use it
    For me the introduction of altitude was a major gamechanger. The game went from fun to fantastic.
    I agree that fiddling with markers can slow things down but I think that it is worth it.
    Maybe collisions occur a bit to often but for me they are a part of the game. I try to keep track of climbcounters and altitudepegs of all surounding planes to minimize the risk.
    But it is not fun to draw that 10p-card from the C-deck

  12. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LOOP View Post
    For me the introduction of altitude was a major gamechanger. The game went from fun to fantastic.
    I agree that fiddling with markers can slow things down but I think that it is worth it.
    Maybe collisions occur a bit to often but for me they are a part of the game. I try to keep track of climbcounters and altitudepegs of all surounding planes to minimize the risk.
    But it is not fun to draw that 10p-card from the C-deck
    i agree that it definitely adds a whole new dimension to the game. but i was referring not to fiddling with counters and such but how much more evasive capability is added for a/c being targeted. yes its more realistic and id never play a campaign game or some scenarios without it but for your average friendly get together shoot em up you can get more games (or respawns) in for the allotted time.

    as for collisions i feel they occur much too often with or without altitude. in memoirs of ww1 aerial combat you do read about collisions often enough but its (other than during training) a relatively uncommon occurrence. as written in the rules collisions happen multiple times per scenario. the reason for this, i think, is the reduced firing range in relation to the scale of the aircraft. i understand why for playability but it tends to keep a/c in much closer proximity than, i believe, is likely to have occurred in real life. im not talking about just when youre bearing down on a target closing for the kill, but in breaking away and maneuvering to reacquire target (or targets) especially with multiple a/c in the "air". my little fix for it is instead of having collisions occur when a peg is over a base and vice versa but when peg is over peg (ie the peg on the top a/c is occluding the red dot on the bottom a/cs card). the reasoning for this is, like having a firing arc instead of just a straight line, the a/c can "juke and roll" a bit in essentially the same airspace and adjust its attitude a bit to avoid contact.

  13. #13

    LOOP
    Guest


    Default

    I think you have a point there and I sometime play with a houserule that minimize the risk of collision to 1/6 of normal (the colliding planes through a Dice each and if they get the same number it's a hit).
    Collisions still happends but not as often.
    I have not played WGS. Do collisions occur as often as in WGF?
    Last edited by LOOP; 09-01-2015 at 06:03.

  14. #14

    Sam_Charette
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    I don't think the altitude rules are bad as they are. It was either day 2 or day 3, most of which being introductory games to multiple people so limiting the complexity. The destruction derby brought about a lot of laughs

  15. #15

    LOOP
    Guest


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Charette View Post
    The destruction derby brought about a lot of laughs
    Isn't that what it's all about. Having fun

  16. #16

    Sam_Charette
    Guest


    Default

    Precisely



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