Air crash at Shoreham Airshow
A friend has just posted on her Facebook feed about this having happened close to where she lives. Looks very bad; initial reports indicate it crashed on the A27. Update now indicates currently seven confirmed dead.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34027260
A Hawker Hunter plane has crashed into several vehicles after coming down at Shoreham Airshow in West Sussex.
Sussex Police said there are several casualties, but could not give details on their condition.
Last edited by Prodromoi; 08-22-2015 at 08:47.
That's awful.
Wow, that's awful. My thoughts are with the victims of the crash
Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!
Oh my, so sad that these things happen as often as they do.
This has just been on the national news - seven confirmed dead at scene, fourteen injured - looked horrendous. Did a loop and failed to pull up in time, road is at field boundary / threshold.
Local news showed an incredible image from someone on the road as it happened in front of them. I was supposed to be there today but my friend couldn't make it in the end so I didn't go. Glad I didn't now.
Last edited by flash; 08-22-2015 at 11:04.
Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"
I just caught the end of the news flash this evening.
So sorry to hear that the death toll was so high, but I suppose it could have been a lot worse, although not for those involved. i feel so sorry for them.
It is so sad when people go for a day out and it ends in tragedy.
Puts things in perspective.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
Contrary to what Sky News reported this was not a single-seat fighter but a Hawker Hunter T7. Seven killed on A27 and latest update says Pilot still fighting for his life.
AAIB on scene. Another grim day for British Historic Aviation
Already a Wikipedia entry...
Such a tragedy on such a nice day.
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
Hawker Hunter T7 WV372 which was based at North Weald.
The Folland Gnat T Mk 1 which was involved in the fatal accident at Oulton in Cheshire a fortnight ago was also based at North Weald ... What I fear now the most is a Nanny State knee-jerk reaction to these accidents against Warbirds and Preserved / Heritage aircraft flight. This is after all the highest air show accident death-toll in the UK since Farnborough in 1952: John Derry was also killed in this accident involving the prototype de Havilland Sea Vixen.
RIP to all killed.
Very sad indeed.
I hope you guys don't lose any aspects of your great airshows over there.
A sad and sorrowful day for all concerned. Prayers for all.
thats horrible. my condolences to all involved.
That is so tragic.
Found the image on this site - the pic & slideshow's not for the faint hearted but it truly captures the moment.Originally Posted by flash
The traffic lights seen in the pictures are at the main entrance to the airfield though I'm not sure if that was being used for the show this year but there appears to be a lot of people on the roadside who may have been there for that purpose.
All in all a very sad event for all concerned.
Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"
Terrible news - thoughts and prayers with everyone affected
Truly terrible, thoughts with all who have been affected
It's always sad to hear of an incident like this - it truly reminds one of the way chance plays a role in our lives. Glad you weren't there, Dave...
Like Keith and Barney, I hope there isn't some sort of knee-jerk reaction to these incidents.
All the best,
Matt
Damn tragedy.
Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!
A tragedy in every sense of the word.
Awful tragedy - here's hoping the toll doesn't get any higher.
The video makes chilling viewing; something so beautiful, suddenly going so horribly wrong.
Condolences to all the families and friends.
Looks like it will be getting worse:
Sussex Police say 11 'highly likely' to have died and warn it is 'quite possible' more bodies will be discovered when the aircraft wreckage is recovered tomorrow.
Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"
...and apparently there's been another fatal crash at a Swiss show.
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
I see a number of M.P.s are already jumping on the self-publicity bandwagon, with comments ranging from 'only have airshows over the sea' to 'ban them altogether'. The airshow accident record in the U.K. has been very good up to recently, so not really enamoured with these knee-jerk reactions.
Info on Swiss Airshow crash:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34033478
Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!
Sadly it's become very typical of politics in recent years to use tragedy as currency to garner votes. Those doing so aren't concerned about the issue nearly as much as they're concerned about being seen to be vigorously campaigning about it. No one is really surprised to see this unhappy event as being any different, and I wish our politicians would have more respect.
But... I suggest we don't see this devolve into a political debate. The victims, alive and dead, deserve more respect and thought than that. This morning's news article on the BBC says that the number of deaths from this is likely to be around twenty after the fuselage is lifted later today.
Last edited by Prodromoi; 08-24-2015 at 00:46. Reason: Typo
Any further reports as to an altimeter error being pointed at? Unless the talk of an altimeter error yesterday was just the media carrying on the way it does inspired by the Ramstein Airshow tragedy of August 1988.
Alex I could not agree with you more about devolving further into a political debate than we have done so far: This is not about politics but I feel more a matter of air operations. It's absolutely wonderful to see these vintage aircraft still in the air types me aware of how we stand a cat in hell's chance of seeing a Eurofighter Typhoon doing the same ... Look at what happened to the F-117A Nighthawk for example. Revolutionary in it's day turned static museum piece only now they have all been decommissioned.
But ... Performances involving these aircraft IMHO have to be toned down a bit when one considers their age and also the spare parts which are currently available for them. What must be avoided are sharp turns of any descriptions as well as prolongued exposure of the control cables (if applicable) to strain. In Aeronautical Engineering I have learned of Young's Modulus and how Stress (quantified) / Strain (quantified) can predict the elasticity and finally failure under tension of metals. These revised flight conditions will I agree make air display and air show flying less exciting ... But a lot safer without any Nanny State bans on warbirds and vintage aircraft having to be entertained. Any aircraft which is properly and appropriately maintained is fit to fly ... However some during flight have been known to push their luck even if it is just for a second. John Derry (the famous test pilot) is still by far my best example of pushing one's luck all that little bit too far at Farnborough in 1952. This also coincides with the highest air show accident death toll before now as having broken up the de Havilland Sea Vixen Derry was flying rained down upon the spectator area ...
My heart goes out to those involved. Terrible thing to happen.
And to that very end, this has just been announced by the BBC:
Significant restrictions on vintage jets in air displays have been imposed after the Shoreham Airshow crash, the UK's aviation regulator has announced.
The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) said vintage jets would be "limited to flypasts" and "high-energy aerobatics" would not be permitted.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34044383
Utter tragedy, shocking and heart breaking
Never Knowingly Undergunned !!
I'm not sure about this thread becoming all about politics Alex ... More about physics maybe.
Somebody please correct me if wrong but this reference in my experience is to kinetic and potential energy components within an aerobatic manoeuver. I wish I had a diagram because the explanation I have got here in this Special Edition FTH or Flight Training Handbook is quite a long-winded one.
Basically the FTH advises that:
Potential Energy - Maximum at max height. Minimum at lowest height: Friction and Drag generation constant or changes very little.
Kinetic Energy - Maximum approaching lowest Potential Energy region (for example losing height at or gaining airspeed.) Minimum approaching highest Potential Energy region. Friction and Total Drag generation changes increase especially when height is lost and airspeed is gained. Both decrease as airspeed is lost and height is gained ...
Control cable strain is most associated with kinetic energy but instances of this are not impossible in association with potential energy.
I have never flown in accordance with this Special Edition FTH - in fact I bought it for 50p at the East Midlands Aeropark in 2007!
You may be interpreting the press release too literally; it's going to be aimed for mass circulation be the usual media outlets and thus needs to get a message across in terms that are simple and straightforward to the majority of the readers. The term "high energy aerobatics" that they use may not be the most accurate, but it conveys the spirit of the message well enough without needing explanations for the general readership or dissection.
we get a lot of that on this side of the pond as well
couldnt agree with you more. a recent tragedy at the reno air races a few years ago comes to mind. the pilot had spent 10 million dollars souping up a p-51 almost beyond recognition (he couldve custom built a faster a/c for that) only to auger in a few feet from the stands due to control surface failure killing himself and some spectators. similar crashes are an all to common event in warbird air raceing however i believe that was the 1st that also took out spectators. i think the age of these old warbirds needs to be taken into account and performances toned down accordingly. for the sake of preserving history.
True ... However the term could mean this for those who wish to read further into this matter. But 10 year old Nieces asking me if pilots drink lots of Red Bull before high energy flying aside I agree - good point. When she was eight and her sister was six the same Niece remembers going to the Shoreham Air Show with Uncle Barn in 2013. Whilst there we ran into a friend of mine who now flies B763ERs who politely joked about us drinking Red Bull at CSE Oxford and now we fly ... She has never forgotten as they both live not too far away but in West Sussex.
While there is - of course - a lot of painstaking investigation to be done, a new video from a member of the public has surfaced on YouTube that may well point to a compressor stall at approximately the 50 second mark of the footage linked below.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=N9mj0fCFRWk
I think you could be right Alex - firstly there is the malfunction filmed at 0:50 seconds which from certain angles may have been confused with sunlight reflection (a glint) ...
Secondly the Hawker Hunter emits a very distinctive noise in the flight conditions which follow the malfunction with air flowing correctly through the intakes at the front. Very similar to the way the Avro Vulcan emits its famous Power Howl sound from it's air intakes owing to their shape and size in conjunction with certain power settings and increases.
I don't hear that engine intake noise emitting from the aircraft as it makes it's final descent D-> Impact. Early indication that the power-plant was not functioning correctly but as you say the AAIB has to fully and officially investigate this accident. Plus the Folland Gnat T Mk 1 near Oulton. Plus do not forget the Biggin Hill CAT 3 (but thankfully non-fatal) accident involving Supermarine Spitfire MK912 which was very much overshadowed by the fatal accident near Oulton that same weekend.
I know that feeling all to well, Dave. I decided to miss the Abbotsford Air Show back in 1973 when there was a major crash. No fatalities, luckily, in that one.
Terrible news. A sad day for all concerned.
Jimmy Leeward in _Galloping Ghost_ -- trim-tab came off. http://www.popularmechanics.com/flig...crash-6481596/
(Every pilot I know saw the video and figured out what happened immediately; it took the Gov't almost a year....)
And to cap it off: One of the drivers at the IndyCar race at Pocono is dead -- debris to the face.
My thoughts and prayers to everyone who has been touched by this tragedy.
See you on the Dark Side......
My Father and I witnessed the RIAT '93 MiG-29A collision at RAF Fairford ... All I remember him saying as parts from one of the MiG-29As slammed into a parked Belgian C-130 Hercules with the other coming to earth in a field was 'Two blow-outs' ... Whereas I corrected him with 'Two bang outs. 125 MPH through the canopy's a bang out.' Then we both took a deep breath and said the same word ... Then that was it.
Back at home apparently my brother saw footage of the collision on BBC1 and just kept saying 'Barn will know what to do' and that both of us would be alright. The collision was later attributed to pilot error.
Returning to the Shoreham accident I've just received a circular asking anybody with information or footage to contact UK AAIB General Enquiries - 01252 510300
Last edited by Tonx; 08-25-2015 at 01:47.
Seems odd that only this camera (so far) seems to have picked that up - Looked like something between the lens and the object to me when I freeze framed it as it overlaps the rear of the aircraft but then I know nothing of these things and can only speculate like many others. Hopefully the AAIB will get to the bottom of it in due course and we'll know for sure.
Seen no reports of further remains being found as yet so that's something to be thankful for.
Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"
Thing is ... the Hawker Hunter is powered by a single low-bypass turbofan where in the event of a compressor stall or failure there will be a flash accompanied by a 'pop' sound. I personally have experienced such an event involving a high-bypass turbofan on board an Avro 100 RJ where the design of the engine is different. This Number 3 (inboard) engine malfunction took the shape and form of puffs of smoke and at times flame emitting from the rear of the engine which was accompanied by a noticeably rhythmical 'pom-pom-pom-pom' sound. Until the engine was shut down that was and the aircraft safely returned to STN (London Stansted.)
BUT: Having said that the 'pop' sound should have been audible at that height to people on the ground. I am going to look at the video again and see if it is detectable. Also going to try and freeze-frame it to see if that 'burst of light' is some form of unconnected object or phenomena.
Any chance this will affect the Vulcans flights in Doncaster?
I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
Coming down is the hardest thing
Too early to be sure, but unlikely - current talk is mainly of limiting aerobatics from vintage jets, which isn't really the Vulcan's game anyway.
I saw a list on the Telegraph site of vintage jet aircraft that will be subject to the temporary restrictions announced - In addition to the Hawker Hunter they are:
BAC Strikemaster - six
Folland Gnat - five
Jet Provost - 20
L29 Delfin - two
L39 Albatross - one
DH115 Vampire - three
DH112 Venom - two
Vulcan - two
Sea Vixen - one
Canberra PR9 - one
Meteor - two
So fly pasts only unless over the sea.
Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"
I saw the moment of the crash on video. Horror. Very sorry for the victims.
"We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."
Dave, I gather from these figures that this is the number of flying displays per type of vintage aircraft which are subject to the post-Shoreham curtailments and restrictions. Must also be the number of flying displays left for each type before the UK Air Show Season 2015 ends.
Avro Vulcan XH558 is due to be grounded permanently at the end of the 2015 Air Show Season after which it will be preserved as a static exhibit at it's current base at EGCN. There was talk of XH558 returning to Bruntingthorpe in Leicestershire towards the tail end of last year but this has since proven to be untrue. Originally XH558 was not booked for this year's Southport Air Show but will now be making an appearance on the second day (Sunday.) The Vulcan is heading to Dunsfold over the next few days and usually overflies Newark Air Museum on the way: This is situated not far from the A1 which it follows flying VFR north to south and reciprocal weather permitting.
It appears the A27 has now been mostly reopened to traffic today, so far the death toll is still 11, all of which I believe have now been identified.
I would ask that we spare a thought not just for the victims of the initial incident and their families but also for the witnesses, survivors, and especially for the emergency responders, investigators and all those employed to deal with the aftermath of this incident. It has been a grim task by all accounts and one that will, unfortunately, have further consequences for some of those people.
Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"
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