WWI Starter "all in one" box set too much to ask for?
I have the original Wings of War sets... all of them... but I wish they would do a reprint of the starter set for WWI... It is so hard to get people interested in buying this game with the "first impression" of buy this box with the rules, and then buy some planes... The Wings of War starter I have was a perfect "All in one" board game... and they did it with WW2 for Wings of Glory... why not with WWI, and would it be that dificult to do a real snoopy sopwith??? LOL
Lewd over 'n out! S!~
I personally like the way they are doing it now. For people wanting to check out the game for the first time, there is the ~$20 Duel Set that gives you everything you need to play in a single box. If you like the game, you can then buy into the RAP and pick and choose which planes you want to game with.
With the old Deluxe sets, you had to drop ~$70 just to try the game out (unless you had a friend that had it). That was a huge buy in just to sample the game. It also caused issues with veteran players as well. If they put new paint jobs in there (like they did on the last reprint of the Deluxe set), veteran players had to pay for a full duplicate of the game materials just to get those four planes (making them about $17 a plane).
In the new system if you go from the Duel Packs to the RAP + Planes, you are only duplicating the A damage deck (which it’s good to have a few of anyways) at no additional cost (the Duel Packs are pretty much the same price as two Plane Packs).
In the Giant KS, Ares did try and offer a Complete Starter kit. They offered the RAP and 4 planes from Series 1 as a “Rookie Bundle ”. I’m not sure how many of those they sold, but I picked up several of them to offer on the AA site, I just got to get them added to the store
Ron I like the original starter sets too. I bought mine from Italy and downloaded the English instructions. Also have the Sails of Glory starter but not the WW2 version. Just seems nicer to have 4 models and everything in the one box imho.
Yeah I like what they have as well, and would not want to see those options go away, in fact I would like to see more availability in general, but I still think they should have the "all in one" starter package... Maybe if the game itself was more available and present, the need for an all in one may not be as necessary.
Agreed!Originally Posted by Baxter
I like aspects of both sides - the 4-planes-in-one-box option was a great one-stop purchase (I know, I have several!), but at least with the RAP+separate planes option you get to pick which 4 planes you want, and avoid duplicates (unless you are willing to repaint the 4 planes in a second or third starter set - and even then you are stuck with just 4 planes types, and manoeuvre decks).
As Keith said, the Dual Packs are probably the best way to get your feet wet.... sorry Tim, I meant get your wheels off the ground. A nice cheap intro to find out if you want to dive all the way in or not. Next would be the four pack with hopefully four planes different than the Dual sets. I have oone of each set, love having multiple damage card sets and extra maneuver decks and will happily repaint all the duplicat planes.
Careful, now................................NO SAILS!!!
I agree with the 2 plane starter box for WW1. A great start and not expensive and if it's not for you easily sold.
Why haven't they done the same for WW2? ME109 v Spitfire, Wildcat v Zero, etc.
See you on the Dark Side......
Yes, a WW2 Dual pack would be wonderful. Perhaps part of their beginner sets in the near future?
This.
There's also the price point issue... the Deluxe boxes were neither cheap nor complete (re: the upgrade of the rules in the RAP). I thought the Duel Packs for WGF were a good compromise... two comparable aircraft, maneuver decks, an "A" damage deck, and all the basic rules. Good stuff. I know I bought one of each.
That being said, it's been a long time since I was new to the game and I'll admit that my opinion would probably be different if that wasn't the case.
My hope is that WGS gets its own version of the Duel Packs... they would probably sell pretty well (especially if they served as a vehicle to reprint the first series of aircraft -- 109, Spitfire, F4F, and Zero) as they would appeal to all those who missed out on them the first time and those of us who always could find room for just. one. more.
Personally, I'd wish they would come out with something WW2. Note that I have more than enough planes of the older ones, and decks to do AIM and Shapeways galore. But newbies need planes with decks.
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
That's more than a fair point.
A WSG Dual Pack with Battle of Britain planes would be AWESOME!
I have been giving away WFG Dual Packs at conventions for the last two years (I own one, but have paid for many, many more than that), and at the last two conventions at which I have hosted WWII games, it would have been great to give out the WSG Dual Packs.
They are not as expensive for LGS to provide, and they are a great starter set. Just enough of a taste to get people into the game. A complete RAP and a few minis is a chunk of change, and in a location were there isn't many players, minis are, IMHO, useless to give away on their own.
Mike
"Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
"Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59
Roberto has said that the new WGS starter sets will be more akin to the old Deluxe sets... having extended scenario material (I think he means bombers and such here).
Well, that would make it a big ticket item, and not likely to be provided by LGS support for cons. Still, I'd find a way to pick up a few.
Mike
"Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
"Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59
The duel pack was the perfect way to enter the game for me.
Now I've purchased other planes and have built even more... That works for me!
+1Careful, now................................NO SAILS!!!
How much will they retail for on the AA store? I was going to buy the RAP+ 4 planes combo pack off miniature market and I believe it is the exact same thing as the kickstarter combo pack. I'm just getting into the game and I know I'll love it so I figured that would be the best way to go about getting setup.I personally like the way they are doing it now. For people wanting to check out the game for the first time, there is the ~$20 Duel Set that gives you everything you need to play in a single box. If you like the game, you can then buy into the RAP and pick and choose which planes you want to game with.
With the old Deluxe sets, you had to drop ~$70 just to try the game out (unless you had a friend that had it). That was a huge buy in just to sample the game. It also caused issues with veteran players as well. If they put new paint jobs in there (like they did on the last reprint of the Deluxe set), veteran players had to pay for a full duplicate of the game materials just to get those four planes (making them about $17 a plane).
In the new system if you go from the Duel Packs to the RAP + Planes, you are only duplicating the A damage deck (which it’s good to have a few of anyways) at no additional cost (the Duel Packs are pretty much the same price as two Plane Packs).
In the Giant KS, Ares did try and offer a Complete Starter kit. They offered the RAP and 4 planes from Series 1 as a “Rookie Bundle ”. I’m not sure how many of those they sold, but I picked up several of them to offer on the AA site, I just got to get them added to the store
http://www.miniaturemarket.com/arewgf600a.html
I can't follow the demand for a deluxe set.
The actual ARES GAMES WGF products cover all we need.
...and it's a reasonable question what WGF planes to put into it. Standard ones, that everybody can buy as single packs? Special ones, so that the veteran gamers need to buy the stuff around, too? A firing or B firing? Early War - late war? Double seaters?
I can imagine two reasons to buy a WGF deluxe set.
a) It looks awesome in your boardgame shelf (Hello collectors
b) You got a double A damage deck.
Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!
I guess one benefit of bringing out a new deluxe starter set is that they could reformat the cards and chits so that were actually readable - like they used to be!!
I hear you guys about the duel packs, but here's the thing. They are not all that available and for us guys who are into this, it's not a big deal to hunt for what we want. That is not how you get new folks however. I liked the original plane line up in the deluxe set, and don't care if they kept them generic paint or if they just used 4 existing mini's that you could buy separately for those who did not want the deluxe set. Marketing is VERY important for new players. Not so much for you and me... Though Like I said I have all of the original WoW sets, Balloons, mini's, mats, and expansions. I Even started buying duplicate WoG to use them instead of the original WoW mini's. The deluxe exists for WW2 WoG, and so should WW1...
The deluxe set for WGS (WWII) is history.
...and the new guys can buy a cheap Rules & Acessoire Pack and the planes they want.
I read a few times that rookies bought some twoseaters in the first.
Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!
In my opinion the current system with RAP is good enough.
I remember the last WGS Deluxe Set with four planes. They were selected and painted so "carefully" that they could not meet each other in any historical air battle between Axis and Allies.
Last edited by Nightbomber; 10-14-2015 at 01:26.
"We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."
I’ll have to look and see what my pricing is. I’ll try and get to that late tomorrow afternoon (taking the girls up the side of a mountain to watch the meteor shower tonight). I was also thinking about putting a couple of the core AA accessories in with my Rookie packs as well.
The Camel/Dr.I Duel Pack went out of stock about 2-3 months ago, but the SPAD/D.Va is still in stock at places ( I think I have one or two left). So I’m not so sure the lack of availability in your area was due to lack of supply levels… perhaps it was lack of FLGS carrying the products. Which I would think would be even worse with a ~$70 Deluxe set. I know I’d stock less of those then I did of the Duel Packs.
Yes, that was bad. Now that they are doing the BoB and later the Pacific as their starters (and core areas of focus), we should not see another mistake like that!In my opinion the current system with RAP is good enough.
I remember the last WGS Deluxe Set with four planes. They were selected and painted so "carefully" that they could not meet each other in any historical air battle between Axis and Allies.
I just received an email update from meeplemart.com that they have the SPAD/Albatros Duel Pack in stock. Price is $30 CND plus shipping.
As we spoke during your visit Keith, when we put on our games at shows and we get a lot of new interest the first question is "Where can we buy these, rules etc". Pointing them to the few stockists at shows and they only carry aircraft, no RAP or dual packs available it puts a lot of people off. From a marketing point of view surely it would be better to grab public interest then, as we do now, expand when aircraft, decks etc become available.
For me the way to do this is with inexpensive dual packs that incorporate enough to play a game, rules, counters, damage deck, rulers and 2 aircraft.
See you on the Dark Side......
That maybe true, Neil, but not for all interested. Now I am of the opinion, that after buying a duel pack only real geeks will go on with further purchases. Moreover - I have never seen those duel packs neither in Poland, nor in Czech Republic in any shops. It must be the same for the rest of Central Europe at least.
Real starter sets are truly necessary, for the general audience/families/gaming groups. Nerds like us would always find a way to buy/expand/substitute models and parts. People who see a game being played want to buy a nice size box with All the Stuff necessary to Start the Adventure. That is life.
Take a look around:
1) Is there any starter set of any other game constantly available in game shops? The answer is yes, it is.
2) Is this game more popular then WoG. Yes again.
3) Is this game's starter set offers hours of playing time as it is? Absolutely.
4) Is that starter set way cheaper than old Nexus starter sets were? Yes again.
5) Do players buy multiple starter sets to get more minis, rulers, tokens, dice? Yes they do (generally 2-4 apiece).
I play with new-to-game people and they ask me "what and where to buy such thing to get started"? With no duel packs available, I start answering them: buy RAP in English (sorry), then you can buy some planes on line (you should see their shining eyes fading...). No way to get them.
There should be a Starter Set available (2 scouts + 2 two-seaters), no doubt about it. Sorry to say that, but that would be a better marketing move then the expensive giants on KS. But that is just humble opinion of mine.
"We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."
As debated here price is the issue for me. I bought the WGS Delux set when I started but than I was already a ww1-freak so I was not that hard to hook
Wings is an expencive game if you want to expand it with more and new aircrafts. If the price is too high just too get started it might scare some customers away.
The duelpack work well I think in that matter. I'll even consither buying (don't tell SWMBO) WGS if it comes in a duelpack
When demo'ing WGF at CanCon or Wintercon, when asked which bricks-and-mortar shops carry the rules, I have to say "none in this country".
I refer them to mail-order, and for the last year, mail-order from overseas. None are available from any mail-order-only stores here.
Ares marketing really could be a lot better. There is demand - but when price is doubled (due to postage) and delivery delayed by months - it's just too much effort.
See http://www.milsims.com.au/catalog/3309?limit=400
"Backorder" means maybe they'll get it in future, maybe they won't, and it might take years.. I've had some take 18 months, and many more cancelled.
You can get some products - but the prices are, well....
http://zoxoro.com.au/Products/Wings-...Spad-XIII.html
these guys prices are just crazy
RAPs are still available for 25 in Germany.
I have to say: Where is a will, there is a way. Everyone can handle the Internet.
WoG can't compare with X-Wing and there are still core games were you wait years for a reprint.
I'm shure we'll get new impulses from the KS and the planed WGS starter sets.
Personaly good news for me, that the duel packs are sold out. So we'll get a reprint, too.
Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!
Not before 2018 though
At a guess -
Early 2016 - WGS P-47 etc
Mid 2016 - WGF N-11 etc
Late 2016 - Midway WGS Starter set
Early 2017 - WGF reprint of DH2 etc
Mid 2017 - Reprint of maps
Late 2017 - BOB set
Early 2018 - WGF new series
Mid 2018 - WGS reprint of P40 etc
Late 2018 - WGF new starter pack
Availability of basic "packs" is something a lot of us have been saying for quite a while now.
For WW1 the two plane or dual pack , was for me a perfect starter , for new players it allowed them to dip their toes as it were, with the added benefit that resale you can recoup most of the layout.
This sort of set is perfect introductory material, if interested people can then expand with more aircraft and the never present RAP...ohh did that come out loud
Nearly every show we attend we get asked about RAP for WW1 but these are always rare from retail shops and we have to say try on line.
I keep hearing there is no RAP shortages, well they dont seem to be in Eastern Europe, Australia and UK so where are they
I wonder?
WW2 we do see some RAP available, but these also are getting rare at shows, what dont help WGS is the lack of basic aircraft, BoB no Spits, Me109, Hurricane and Pacific Zeroes etc, hopefully this will be rectified shortly with the ahem imminent ahem release of the new BoB and Pacific themed sets.
I really hope things change soon, but I have to wonder if they will looking at the time scales for the next series for all three Glory games.Yes I understand Ares have other game systems and we have the Giants coming soon, but !
Where do the reprints of WGF series 3 and 4 fit in?
So they should sell license for these lines of products to AA.
The unofficial commitee would eventualy become the board of directors.
Keith would not stand our pressure and bought a heavy duty 3D printer and then... waves after waves of planes would hit the shop shelves every year.
A millionaire's dream? Why not?
Keith - be a Giant!
"We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."
They are sitting in the warehouse because none of the EU shops will stock them for whatever reason. I know what Ares is charging stores for their items, and the distributor/stores are putting a huge markup on them from what I can see
I personally think they should have both the Duel Packs and a Deluxe Starter Set available at all times.There should be a Starter Set available (2 scouts + 2 two-seaters), no doubt about it. Sorry to say that
At one point they considered releasing the BoB set before WGS S6, so it is going to come out much earlier then late 2017. I think we will see WGS S6, then BoB followed by the reprint of WGF S3.
Umm,no thank you sir. lolSo they should sell license for these lines of products to AA.
The unofficial commitee would eventualy become the board of directors.
Keith would not stand our pressure and bought a heavy duty 3D printer and then... waves after waves of planes would hit the shop shelves every year.
A millionaire's dream? Why not?
Keith - be a Giant!
Not in the UK they're not - I've not seen the WWI RAP in stock with the distributor for a while, and the WWII RAP is back out of stock again - they did have that one a few weeks ago though, and still have a few of the "rules and 4 planes" WW2 combo packs though - I really wish they'd get the WWI rookie packs in.
Dom.
Just to back up Dom, I have spoken to three games store and they say the same, the disributors are saying they cannot get the WW1 RAP so something is amiss somewhere
I started off just buying a WGF Duel Pack. That lead to me buying a handful of single planes... however....
I find it a bit of a pain to cart around shoeboxes full of items when I want to go play the game at a friend's home.
I'm interested in getting into WGS, and I don't really like the idea of buying RAP and 4-6 little boxes with separate planes. I'd much rather buy one single starter set that has everything included in one convenient box so that it's easy to pack around for an afternoon of gaming.
JMHO....
Are the EU distributors/stores putting on a huge markup or is it the extra cost of shipping materials from the U.S. to Europe plus import duty? Would it be better if Ares shipped materials direct from China to Europe instead of going through the U.S.?
I suspect it's too late for that- we're far enough into a vicious circle on that front that I'd be surprised if Ares' remaining European sales are enough for it to be feasible now.
Last edited by Dom S; 10-15-2015 at 03:01.
UK / Euro prices are always going to be higher anyway, due to VAT, but US stores get a bigger percentage discount on rrp than British ones, so the costs in the distribution chain are noticeable....
Last edited by Dom S; 10-15-2015 at 03:04.
Worst, Ares is launching another game through kickstarter:
http://www.aresgames.eu/15608
More resources diverted.
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
They don't though.
And retailers don't want to be stuck with stock for a game where rules aren't available. Ares now has a reputation there.
Australia is a special case - the wholesalers (who get from Ares then reticulate to stores) charge a huge margin, and won't ship till they have enough orders to fill a container going to Australia. So the retailer puts in the order, pays for it.... and might get some of the order filled (no guarantee that if you order 6 you'll get more than 1 in the first shipment) in 3-18 months time. Depending on what other stores in the country order what other lines supplied by that wholesaler.
X-wing has been effectively killed off recently here by the same effect. Demand is there, but stocks aren't in the FLGS's - not that there are many of those.
I've been having a chat to my local FLGS owner - he's tearing his hair out, he can't compete with foreign stores that have product available, when all he can offer is excuses for why his orders didn't come in in the last shipment.
I'm torn. The GD system is fun, but I don't want it to delay my Strutters and Albatros C.IIIs!
... or two.or.three.or four ....... and those of us who always could find room for just. one. more.
I'd go for another deluxe WWI set, as long as it had all new paint schemes. Can't get enough of fresh paint schemes on the table!
totally agree! I got in to the game by buying the Duel Set, I decided to get the second Duel set to increase the amount of planes on the table to see how multiple players enhanced the gaming, after that I got a couple of more scouts and then a two seater, then a few more scouts and two seaters and then the bombers, then before I knew it I pretty much had every single aircraft there is to own!I personally like the way they are doing it now. For people wanting to check out the game for the first time, there is the ~$20 Duel Set that gives you everything you need to play in a single box. If you like the game, you can then buy into the RAP and pick and choose which planes you want to game with.
With the old Deluxe sets, you had to drop ~$70 just to try the game out (unless you had a friend that had it). That was a huge buy in just to sample the game. It also caused issues with veteran players as well. If they put new paint jobs in there (like they did on the last reprint of the Deluxe set), veteran players had to pay for a full duplicate of the game materials just to get those four planes (making them about $17 a plane).
In the new system if you go from the Duel Packs to the RAP + Planes, you are only duplicating the A damage deck (which it’s good to have a few of anyways) at no additional cost (the Duel Packs are pretty much the same price as two Plane Packs).
In the Giant KS, Ares did try and offer a Complete Starter kit. They offered the RAP and 4 planes from Series 1 as a “Rookie Bundle ”. I’m not sure how many of those they sold, but I picked up several of them to offer on the AA site, I just got to get them added to the store
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