1 1/2 Strutter deck.

**tikkifriend** · 07-09-2015 04:15

Which deck (old or new) do people use for 1 1/2 Sop Strutters and what damage / guns do you attribute ? Saw one card in the files section and wondered if that was the one everyone followed .
Cheers Paul

**grumpybear** · 07-09-2015 04:46

IN the unofficial stats 1 1/2 strutter fighter V deck B/B ; bomber same deck single B ;comic same deck A damage

**tikkifriend** · 07-09-2015 08:49

ANybody play the K deck variant?

**Boney10** · 07-09-2015 10:38

Yes, my three strutters are all K B/B 15

Played once and did really good, will bring along to Doncater for to see

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 07-09-2015 12:46

Mine is the same stats as Chris's, and you will see it in action when I get chance to write up today's AAR. Paul.
Rob.

**grumpybear** · 07-09-2015 14:51

Why a K deck?

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 07-09-2015 14:54

Because that is what was suggested by the smarter people than I am Darell.

Rob.

**flash** · 07-09-2015 15:41

Originally Posted by grumpybear

Why a K deck?

Cos that's what the unofficial stats said before it said V !
The difference is the V has the Immelmann, the K doesn't.

**OldGuy59** · 07-09-2015 16:36

As a card maker, I went through changing the maneuver decks on 1 1/2 Strutter cards a few time while this was sorted.

So, I'm guessing from the above, it isn't sorted out yet?

**gully_raker** · 07-09-2015 17:41

I have been using the K deck for my two seat Strutter in all the OTT ED jobs she has flown.

**grumpybear** · 07-09-2015 20:11

Well I guess I'll give K deck a try as that seems to be the way to go . Thanks wingers

**Nicola Zee** · 07-09-2015 23:05

The general consensus for the K deck seems good to me.

Although designated by the British as a 'fighter', the plane (in game terms) is basically a two-seater observation plane - albeit a good one when it first came out. It was designated a 'fighter' because it was one of the first planes the British installed synchronisation gear for the front gun. But, it was not really a fighter in terms of manoeuvrability and was completely outclassed in every way once the Albatros appeared.

**flash** · 07-09-2015 23:06

Originally Posted by OldGuy59

As a card maker, I went through changing the maneuver decks on 1 1/2 Strutter cards a few time while this was sorted. So, I'm guessing from the above, it isn't sorted out yet?

It seems the stats have been decided by the committee but it may be that some of the players are not aware of the change, or, have chosen to ignore it. That may simply be because of the availability of K decks over V, or, the fact that when laden with bombs it can't immel anyway, or, it can't shoot when performing the immel, or a combination of all of them !
That's about where I am with it, K deck does the job for me !

**tikkifriend** · 07-10-2015 00:20

Had a feeling that K deck was the right one to use ( seen it on AAR photos of ED campaign)
Thanks chaps.

**Zoe Brain** · 07-10-2015 07:42

K deck is appropriate when first introduced - but then some smart CO demonstrated to his unit that when unladen with bombs, it could loop - by doing 13 consecutive loops in a row.

I took up one of our aircraft to demonstrate to my pilots just what could be done with it. In the back seat I had as a passenger Tom Purdey, my Adjutant, and thinking that thirteen might be the right number, psychologically, for such a display, I performed thirteen consecutive loops. Everything about my demonstration went off very well until I landed, and then I found that I had not warned Purdey about what I was going to do, and than he had not been strapped in. Throughout the whole of the thirteen loops he had been hanging on to the fixtures in the interior of the cockpit, and grim death had been staring him in the face. He could all too easily have fallen out, and I was very angry with myself for such thoughtlessness on my part, although Purdey, after his first fright, took it all in good spirit. My pilots, I need hardly say, were delighted with what they thought was an enormous joke.
Major Sholto Douglas, 43 Squadron, RFC Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter

Ok, I consider that pretty convincing proof that the strutter could do reversals. Upgrade to V deck from K deck. That would also explain its longevity in Russian service.

Basically those squadrons that used it as a bomber weren't trained to use it to its full capacity, at least, early on. It was about as maneuverable as an Albatros D.II. the D.III could out-maneuver it.

A similar tale to that of the F2B. But they figured out how to use that properly. By the time they did it with the Strutter, it was obsolete.

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 07-10-2015 08:14

| see the point that it could Immel Zoe, but having invested in an extra K deck, made a custom card, and plastic printed stats card which is superglued between one of the Oberst's bases and a plastic base of my own, you can see my reluctance to alter any of the cards I have. Cost alone would prohibit that.
Rob.

**Nicola Zee** · 07-10-2015 09:47

Originally Posted by Zoe Brain

K deck is appropriate when first introduced - but then some smart CO demonstrated to his unit that when unladen with bombs, it could loop - by doing 13 consecutive loops in a row.

Basically those squadrons that used it as a bomber weren't trained to use it to its full capacity, at least, early on. It was about as maneuverable as an Albatros D.II. the D.III could out-maneuver it.

A similar tale to that of the F2B. But they figured out how to use that properly. By the time they did it with the Strutter, it was obsolete.

Well, that's not how it's described on wiki
https://www.google.co.uk/#q=sopwith+1+1/2+strutter

...the fitting of a more powerful 130 hp Le Clerget 9B improved performance slightly, this came too late to reverse the situation. It was still a useful long-range reconnaissance aircraft when it could be provided with adequate fighter escort,[18] but was one of the types to suffer severely during "Bloody April" - No. 43 squadron alone suffering 35 casualties, from an officer establishment of 32.

Like other early Sopwith types, the 1½ Strutter was very lightly built and its structure did not stand up very well to arduous war service. It was also far too stable to make a good dogfighter, and the distance between the pilot and the observer's cockpits impeded cooperation between them. The last front line 1½ Strutters in the RFC were replaced by Camels in late October 1917.

The assignment of the Immel card does not just represent the ability to do a loop - some mad soul successfully completed a loop in a BE2c - in game terms it represents the extra manoeuvrability of a fighter and the ability to pull stunts at stress effectively in combat. The 1½ Strutter was a good machine for it's time and its stability probably helped it to do repeated loops but how much height was lost in each loop and how long did each loop take? Starting with enough height and given enough time a great pilot can do amazing stunts with the most mediocre of machines but this does not mean they can get away with the same stunts in combat.

What is critical is were acrobatics successfully completed by pilots flying the 1½ Strutter on a regular basis in combat - and the answer to that question is (as you're previous email has implied) no.

Incidentally, there is a case where a daring pilot of a BE2c (who successfully looped the BE2c in the past) did try a loop in combat against a zeppelin - the plane crashed and he was killed.

PS Which engine did the 1½ Strutter have that was successfully looped 13 times - was it the original 110hp or the much later 130hp?

**Teaticket** · 07-10-2015 11:31

I was a bit surprised when the deck changed to V. With what little I have read and seem to always be wrong I was not going to comment either way. I prefer the no Immelmann version myself.