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Thread: Chivalry is dead

  1. #1

    Default Chivalry is dead

    I am ashamed to say I have become a big meanie since playing this game.

    My enemy accidentally selected a card that turned in the wrong direction and he ended up helpless and right in front of my Bristol last night. I could have said dont worry about it old chap. Play the card you meant to select instead. I took ruthless advantage and shot his razor out of the sky.

    A couple of moves later I flew the offending Bristol right off the map after wrongly picking a long straight instead of what I thought was the immelman card! Dark blue arrow on a dark background was my excuse. What goes around comes around

    Do you play like me or are you chivalrous and kind to your enemies

    Baxter

  2. #2

    Default

    When it is an obvious mistake, we let the player play what he meant too. At least i do. This happened to me at Prague Summer Con last year, that i was bound to chase and shot down a badly damaged BF109 returning back home. I made a mistake taking the turn to the other side, never caught him, and lost the mission. Although I respect when people insist on their opponents eating up their mistakes - it is a game after all - but i don't like doing it myself. The victory tastes a little cheap then.

  3. #3

    Default

    If the maneuver was legal but wrong planed the plane has to fly it.

    Somehow the player has to learn the lessons.



    Imagine a situation when his plane is in shooting range behind you.
    Last maneuver.
    You fly right right he turns left and then claims that this maneuver was planed wrong and he originaly wanted to fly right and to stay behind you.

    What about chivalry now?


    We had a lot of situations at Summer Con this year.

    A WGF flybot that decends to Level 2 by mistake instead of climbing to Level 4 to engange the Caproni bomber.
    A WGS Beaufighter that forgot to play an Immelmann to turn around in the perfect position.
    A person who hit his own WGS Bf.110 backside with an AA fire D damage token because of wrong maneuvers (that was me).
    etc...

    That's fate.

    I can accept exceptions for rookies and beginners, of course.
    Last edited by Marechallannes; 05-25-2015 at 15:02.
    Voilà le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  4. #4

    Default

    It depends on game . Just every day play then mistakes can be overlooked and corrected. In a more serious game to bad for you a card laid is a card played

  5. #5

    matt56's Avatar May you forever fly in blue skies.
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    Default

    We do the "A Damage" card for an illegal maneuver rather than 'destroyed' - and most of the time those things involve edge of the board or diving or climbing issues, rather than 'wish I had you in my sights' sorts of things...

    I agree about the situational issues involved - were it a tournament situation, it would be more crucial than a friendly game.

    Chivalry seems to suggest an 'every-issue' sort of attitude, regardless of the situation - perhaps with unknown players or those new to the game, chivalry is most important. With your 'regular crowd' there is some wiggle-room, in my opinion...

    All the best,
    Matt

  6. #6

    Default

    I'll point out a mistake, but I like to think I won't necessarily ENFORCE it.............

    At Triples I pursued an enemy pilot into a cloud; he entered using a steep sharp turn, then for his next card he plotted a split-S (starting with a stall). I pointed out the two consecutive "steeps", and he bit the bullet and took the 'A' damage card, which finished him off (BOOM card!). I felt a bit guilty, but he accepted his fate with good grace (also, the game ended at that point, as his was the last enemy plane).
    I like to think I would have allowed him to change the card, instead (but the the competitive me can't be sure!).

    The following day, a wounded "participation" pilot in an SE5a was poised to pass by my undamaged Fokker DVII within a ruler's length. I planned a sharp right turn into him, assuming he would perform a "steep" sharp right turn into me, and that we would meet nose-to-nose at close range, so I could fire and he could not.
    This duly happened, and he was shocked to find he could not fire back.
    He protested that he was unaware of the wounded pilot rule, but it was pointed out to him that it HAD been explained to him at the time - he then said that he hadn't realised that the SE5a sharp turn was a steep, but several other players talked this down, too.
    He accepted the ruling, and my two 'A' cards shot him down, without reply.

    We (the Germans) were flying 3 planes against 4 Allied - this was the first "kill", and levelled the playing field. I wanted this decision to stand.
    Fortunately, he wasn't that bothered - I offered him a respawn, but instead he swapped sides to assist a young girl who had joined the German side (giving us a 4 vs 3 now!).
    We then gained the girl's brother as a 5th German, and shot down another SE5a for a 5 vs 2 advantage! I felt a bit guilty again.

    I hope such a situation will not arise again, but I rather expect it will.

  7. #7

    Default

    I usually let the card be changed in obvious situations where it is a mistake. When it is questionable, no change.

  8. #8

    Default

    If someone made an honest and obvious mistake, I always let them change it.

    I used to play in Magic the Gathering official tournaments. I usually won some of them. One day I was playing with a 16 years old boy. He was fascinated with MtG. He played awfully. Everybody made fun of him. He had made the mistake of taking his girlfriend to see him play. If you ever played official MtG tournaments you understand what I'm saying. There is a kind of players that somehow transform themselves and resemble hyenas while they're on a tournament. The girl was feeling bad and he was trying to endure things. They were making stupid jokes about him. So I let him win. I've praised his gameplay and his deck. I thanked him for the good game and I gave him some pointers. I felt good. It was one of my best MtG gaming days.

  9. #9

    Default

    Joaquim i really like the approach you took, not only it is right, it is rewarding. And what comes around gets around. Clumsy beginners must be supported, snooty beginners must be slapped.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marechallannes View Post
    If the maneuver was legal but wrong planed the plane has to fly it.

    Somehow the player has to learn the lessons.



    Imagine a situation when his plane is in shooting range behind you.
    Last maneuver.
    You fly right right he turns left and then claims that this maneuver was planed wrong and he originaly wanted to fly right and to stay behind you.

    What about chivalry now?


    We had a lot of situations at Summer Con this year.

    A WGF flybot that decends to Level 2 by mistake instead of climbing to Level 4 to engange the Caproni bomber.
    A WGS Beaufighter that forgot to play an Immelmann to turn around in the perfect position.
    A person who hit his own WGS Bf.110 backside with an AA fire D damage token because of wrong maneuvers (that was me).
    etc...

    That's fate.

    I can accept exceptions for rookies and beginners, of course.
    I agree with you Sven. We all have done it and it is some times funny and then not so. Now in WWI I will not shoot at a pilot that has jammed guns.

    Thomas

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honza View Post
    Joaquim i really like the approach you took, not only it is right, it is rewarding. And what comes around gets around. Clumsy beginners must be supported, snooty beginners must be slapped.
    And that's it. I agree completely. But all kind of things can happen.

    During the Prague Con, I almost changed already planned WW2 maneuver... Not deliberately, but almost happened. Fortunately, Sven warned me in time. On the other occasion, during the Con, I played illegal maneuver, and nobody noticed. Of course, I took the A damage as usual.

    Like somebody said before, when you cheat and win, victory isn't true.

    But Gary didn't do anything wrong by taking advantage of opponent's mistake. Such things happened in real life, too.

  12. #12

    Default

    I also would recommend "being nice".

    But then I saw this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter View Post
    shot his razor out of the sky.
    "Play the 'Degüello'...."

    >:)
    Last edited by csadn; 05-27-2015 at 14:33.

  13. #13

    Default

    I did the exact thing this weekend, trying to line up my Gotha on an airfield. Plotted a left turn instead of a right.
    I did make it work, with a double right to avoid the matt edge, and my bomb-aimer managed a near miss with the full load, to finish the job
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  14. #14

    Setarius's Avatar May you forever fly in blue skies
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    An honest mistake is just that, but a misplayed card in a serious game or tournament, no thanks, tough luck, it happens. I've done it both ways.
    In changing a persons mistake I ask to reserve the right to change my move as well if I can. I've even mixed up movement decks during a turn and had to do an oops. I can understand and can let a mistake go, unless it is a common occurrence.
    I was once in a PBM game and told the officiator that I was going to do an Immelman, and instead of playing straight, reverse, straight I played a straight, climb, straight. After 2 turns I realized my mistake and was told by admin, too bad. When asked why I was not told of my mistake while it was correctable I got a reply of I've been busy and didn't notice. The mistake had me flying off the board giving the enemy the victory.

  15. #15

    Default

    I'm with the general populous on this one. A mistake or two for a new guy? No problem, not going to penalize you. A misplayed card by someone who's been in quite a few games (myself included), tough luck. You have to learn one way or another I think. Of course you don't want to send the new players packing while they're just learning a new game. Hardly sporting.


    Edit:
    Also, does anyone find themselves reading someone's post, then posting and using the exact same phrase as the last guy "tough luck" was used by Dale before me...

  16. #16

    Default

    Don't think chivalry is dead...just somewhat selective.

    Case in point...in the skies this "game" reflects....rookie errors put a lot of pilots in the ground...permanently.

    Fortunately, this is a game and in the spirit of the game...new players (not in tournament play) get a wide berth for corrective action in my experiences...seasoned players normally suck it up with the results of their "oopsie daisies"... in non-tourney spots, seriously, it's a game...stay and play!

    As most of the posts here show, shortly after someone's error, the beneficiary becomes the victim.

  17. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CappyTom View Post
    I agree with you Sven. We all have done it and it is some times funny and then not so. Now in WWI I will not shoot at a pilot that has jammed guns.

    Thomas
    Now that's pure chivalry my friend.


    Maybe I'll see you in your Nieuport 28 over the Westfront, soon.
    Voilà le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  18. #18

    Default

    I usually let it be changed. You have to accept that your opponent is an honest friend, otherwise why bother playing him.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    I usually let it be changed. You have to accept that your opponent is an honest friend, otherwise why bother playing him.
    Rob.
    What this gentleman said. Wholehearted.
    That's what friendship is about in a few words.

    I used to play in competitive tournaments. It felt like a job. Now I just play in friendly tournaments. It feels like pleasure.



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