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Thread: Original pic of Short Stirling & Crew 1942

  1. #1

    Exclamation Original pic of Short Stirling & Crew 1942

    Found this great shot of a Short Stirling Mk 1 & Crew in Cambridgeshire, Britain in 1942.
    Note how young some of them look.

    Enjoy!

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	WW2 Short Stirling Mk1 Cambridgeshire 1942.jpg 
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  2. #2

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    Very much overlooked and overshadowed as a four-engine heavy bomber of WW2 is the Short Stirling IMHO ... It was because of the way their wings were designed to fit then-current RAF hangars which were still a tight squeeze for a Stirling that they could not carry as much destructive payload as either the HP Halifax or of course from 1943 onwards the Avro Lancaster.

    Stirlings were still deployed on successful raids to Turin overflying some pretty significant terrain as they made their way there / back to give some idea of their capability. Generally cascaded from Bomber Command throughout 1943 as the Avro Lancaster arrived in greater numbers into the role of towing troop-gliders especially.

  3. #3

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    What was their bomb load in comparison to the Lancaster Barnaby?

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter View Post
    What was their bomb load in comparison to the Lancaster Barnaby?
    According to wiki, about the same, 14,000 lb (6,350 kg), though the Lancaster could carry up to a 22,000 lb (9,979 kg) Grand Slam bomb
    The bigger problem was that the Stirling had a considerably lower ceiling, so was more vulnerable to FLAK, and was often at risk from bombs being dropped from it's higher fellows.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

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    Spot on. The typical combat payload was similar to the Lancaster (which needed modifications and lost range for extraordinary loads like the Grand Slam) although the Stirling's payload dropped more sharply than the Lancaster's at long ranges. Where the Stirling was really hamstrung though, was thanks to its shortened wingspan, limited to 99 feet by an RAF requirement that it fit in a standard 100 foot hangar. They learned the lesson, and the Halifax and Lancaster were "permitted" bigger spans, but the poor old Stirling was left struggling to make 17,000 feet loaded, which was a pretty comfortable altitude for flak gunners, leaving it seriously compromised.
    Last edited by Dom S; 05-23-2015 at 01:09.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by gully_raker View Post
    ...Note how young some of them look...
    That's the type my cousin died in aged just 19 after bombing the U-Boat pens at L'orient - After dropping the bombs they were shot down by flak, and crashed at St-Thegonnec about 11 km south east of Morlaix in France. Only the pilot, Sgt Kidd survived, and evaded capture. The rest of the crew are buried in Thegonnec Communal Cemetery. Apparently Peter was a gunner but has also been shown as the bomb aimer in the accounts I've read.
    Lost in Stirling I R9248 - AA.H - 75 NZ Sqn - 23/01/43.
    'Nine aircraft were detailed to attack the above target with bombs of 1,000 lb, 500 lb and 4 lb incendiaries. This was a very successful and concentrated attack. All aircraft reported that their bombs were seen to fall in the target area. Large fires were seen to be lighting up the whole area. A fair amount of heavy, medium and light flak was encountered, only a few searchlights were seen. A few enemy aircraft were seen, but no combats took place. The weather was very clear at the target and good visibility. Navigation was by D.R., T.R. pinpoints and visual. Stirling I R9248 captained by Sgt Kidd failed to return.' https://75nzsquadronremembered.wordpress.com/1943-2/

    "He is wise who watches"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    According to wiki, about the same, 14,000 lb (6,350 kg), though the Lancaster could carry up to a 22,000 lb (9,979 kg) Grand Slam bomb
    The bigger problem was that the Stirling had a considerably lower ceiling, so was more vulnerable to FLAK, and was often at risk from bombs being dropped from it's higher fellows.
    Karl
    Thank you for those facts and figures - I concur. RAF Bomber Command received 2,221 Stirlings in total.

    Source: Bill Gunston - Fighting Aircraft of World War 2.

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    The problem with the payload wasn`t so much the weight but that the bomb bay was designed as a series of celular compartments.

    This meant that the largest bomb type the Stirling could carry was the biggest the RAF had in the inventory at the start of the war and the bigger `cookies` that came along later just wouldn`t fit internally.
    Unlike the Lancaster and Hallifax which had bays that could accomodate the bigger bombs and with the Lanc the addition of bulged bomb doors allowed things like the `Tallboy` to fit.
    The Stirling proved to be a lot of use as a transport and glider tug later once it was overshadowed as a bomber, the later marks being purpose built for the job.

  9. #9

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    The B-24 Liberator also had a good transport version (including IIRC a tanker version). Of course, it was built as a boxcar with wings for max bob carrying.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    ...
    The bigger problem was that the Stirling had a considerably lower ceiling, so was more vulnerable to FLAK, and was often at risk from bombs being dropped from it's higher fellows...
    In WW II nightfights, a higher altitude was a higher chance to survive, indeed.
    Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussietonka View Post
    Very much overlooked and overshadowed as a four-engine heavy bomber of WW2 is the Short Stirling IMHO ... It was because of the way their wings were designed to fit then-current RAF hangars which were still a tight squeeze for a Stirling that they could not carry as much destructive payload as either the HP Halifax or of course from 1943 onwards the Avro Lancaster.
    It never occurred to someone to try putting folding wingtips on this bird?

  12. #12

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    Just wasn't done in a bomber; and not sure it would be strong enough either.
    For that matter, did the FAA have any plane with folding wings in the late 30s?
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  13. #13

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    There were a few Karl but maybe not in the way you were thinking !

    The Stringbag


    Blackburn Skua


    Walrus


    That's a sample, there were others

  14. #14

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    No pretty much what I had in mind, so I stand corrected.
    A far cry from folding wingtips on a Stirling, though
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    A far cry from folding wingtips on a Stirling, though
    Not really -- I was picturing something like the Skua's arrangement, starting just outboard of the wing fuel tanks (about halfway between the outer engine nacelle and the original wingtip). After that, it's just Scale. (And once the British get around to Building Bigger Hangars, later evolutions of the wing can be built without.)

  16. #16

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    Stats for the Short Stirling? Someone is looking for a card...
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59



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