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View Poll Results: How many of you regular players use the "pilot's cards" or Ace Skills?

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  • Yes, I use Ace Skills in my matches.

    16 31.37%
  • No, I don't like these as Ace Skills add an unwanted complexity to the game.

    9 17.65%
  • Sometimes I keep amused with those cards.

    16 31.37%
  • Uh, what? Ace Skills?

    10 19.61%
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Thread: How many of you use Ace Skills?

  1. #1

    Default How many of you use Ace Skills?

    Ciao guys,

    here is a question it was time I liked to ask:
    How many of you regular players use the "pilot's cards" or Ace Skills in regular games?

    The reason I am asking is that I rarely met players who knew what Ace Skills are and less often I met players who liked to use these in a game-match.
    I think that is the "Ace Skills" title that puts a psychological barrier to the regular use of these cards and that, in my opinion, a "Pilot Abilities" title could improve their use.

    Also, I would like to see more of them implemented in the game in a (hopefully) near future.

    So, what are your thoughts?

    Mau

  2. #2

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    Actually, option 5 for me: I haven't used them yet. I don't think they're too complex, and am happy with them, but just haven't actually used them yet. (Still being relatively new to the game, I want to learn to core properly first before adding on extra stuff.)

  3. #3

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    Option 6 for me: I use them, but not nearly as often as I would like.

  4. #4

  5. #5

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    I would also like to add I don't have nearly enough of them. I need, oh, like ten of each, so everyone has a set to choose from.

  6. #6

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    Most games not at all, Show games used rarely, the campaign game I was chairing, yes we used some, but not the official cards. We used a form of skills taken from the Obersts Knight of the Air campaign rules.
    My campaign has hit a hiatus currently, but I hope to get it moving again shortly

  7. #7

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    Outside of a campaign game I've only used them once. I don't think they are difficult to add in and I would like to use therm more.

  8. #8

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    To me it is a campaignthing. I have used them at times just for fun and sometimes to even the odds in a dogfighting senario but not very often.

    P-G

  9. #9

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    Another option for me is I often set out intending to use them but end up not doing it. Absolutely on my to do list.

  10. #10

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    I will use them. Problem is won't always remember that I have them.

  11. #11

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    We have them set up for the campaign, but don't usually pull the trigger on using them.

  12. #12

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    I have never used them yet, but I think I might like to..........at some point.

  13. #13

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    I voted "Sometimes", but true answer would be "very rarely"... No particular reason, actually they are very amusing when used.

  14. #14

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    IMHO there should be some mechanism within WGF / WGS towards the attaining of these skills rather than using them as such 'hit and miss' labels. Would bring more of a meaningful purpose as to why ace skills are present / available within the game at all.

    Too much of a 'plug and play' aura surrounds this subject in my humble opinion. Which is why these ace tokens are more labels than representative of any real skills with the way things currently stand. It is the only real fundamental weakness of playing Glory - both versions when one considers what it really took to become an Ace especially during World War 1 with so many pioneering developments and concepts being deployed for the first time. But then the question is how do we go about fixing this matter without involving a 'training programme' for example which one needs to complete to become an ace being or becoming detrimental to Glory - both versions as we know and love it?

    *However* Like has just been said to me is Glory versatile enough as a game to accommodate such a learning process successfully? Based on my experience playing WGS I would say yes, it is versatile and appealing enough.

  15. #15

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    I do really like the idea of using them but as Darell said, forget them when I do have them. I do and don't like the chits that come with the game. They are great to put on your console/planning area to remind you but don't have any info on them to remind you what skill it is. I can't memorize each of the chits in different colors knowing what each stands for. I'm going to have to make something more informative, maybe a larger chit or card for each different skill.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    I do really like the idea of using them but as Darell said, forget them when I do have them. I do and don't like the chits that come with the game. They are great to put on your console/planning area to remind you but don't have any info on them to remind you what skill it is. I can't memorize each of the chits in different colors knowing what each stands for. I'm going to have to make something more informative, maybe a larger chit or card for each different skill.
    I second this idea - Show what you deserve to show ... When you have earned it. Needs updating constantly the more 'kills' you are able to add to your chart. Also what number of your existing 'kills' would you be starting with as I imagine you will already have a good number to your credit

  17. #17

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    We use them in our Campaigns, and here on the Drome in OTT, and Fire in the Skies.
    In my other games at home I only use them with known Aces. So if flying Albert Ball or von Richthofen.
    In all cases the skills have to be earned from game to game, by achieving objectives or gaining victories.
    We use the same sort of system with our imaginary pilots in OTT.
    To help me with remembering who holds which skill I have printed out a card from the Files here which each pilot keeps in his little plastic folder along with his name and unit card. These are displayed alongside his cockpit during the game as an aid memoir The little bags in which the Oberst supplies his aircraft bases are ideal for this job.


    zaceability_OIv_thumb.jpg

    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  18. #18

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    Only in campaign games as Rob said for example OTT and FITS and only if the pilot has qualified ie 5 kills.


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  19. #19

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    Interesting thoughts guys, thanks for your opinions.

    Actually, if we also could have cards rather than tokens only, I suppose it could be an incentive to play with these more often.
    Placing a card, better if with some appeal, near the console would mean to immediatly remember what the Skill is.
    Of course players can do their own but I always prefer "official" items.

    I like the idea that pilots have to achieve the Ace status hence to gain some special abilities but it comes to my mind that some of these could be abilities of "any" pilots not only Aces. For example the "Bullet Checker", the "Lucky Pilot", "Chivalrous Aptitude" and "Incendiary Bullets" just to name a few.

    There are some other abilities such as a "Veteran Instinct" that could be implemented in the game. Or, since some skillful pilots were sometimes withdrawn from the line to evaluate and test new prototypes, it comes to mind a "Test Pilot" or "Prototype Pilot" with some neat abilities.

    I'd like to have each "Ability Card" assigned a certain value in points so that each pilot could have a given amount of points to spend to "upgrade" his character.
    In a Campaign, the better performances could lead to an increase in points to spend.

    Is this impossible to implement in WoG?

    Please keep on brainstorming .

    Mau

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mau Fox View Post
    There are some other abilities such as a "Veteran Instinct" that could be implemented in the game. Or, since some skillful pilots were sometimes withdrawn from the line to evaluate and test new prototypes, it comes to mind a "Test Pilot" or "Prototype Pilot" with some neat abilities.

    I'd like to have each "Ability Card" assigned a certain value in points so that each pilot could have a given amount of points to spend to "upgrade" his character.
    In a Campaign, the better performances could lead to an increase in points to spend.

    Please keep on brainstorming
    Maybe the ideas as to the creation of 'test pilots' and 'prototype pilots' could be out of reach within the context of the regular game as you really do have to be exceptional to even stand a chance of even being considered as a potential Test Pilot - trust me I used to know Commander R M 'Mike' Crosley who was both a WW2 Fleet Air Arm Ace and a post-war Test Research and Evaluation Pilot with the Royal Navy. He died aged 90 in July 2010 but wrote two books relating to these experiences - his first called 'They Gave Me A Seafire' is his best but he also wrote 'Up In Harm's Way' about being a true Test Pilot: Due to this I think that maybe achieving such a status through regular gameplay may very well be out of reach. But if handled correctly and maybe 'championed' at first which would take a lot of time and energy I reckon the permanent 'Ace' recognition idea has in my opinion got potential. The proof is that if it ever did become reality I would consider playing in tournaments far more seriously than I currently do - however look on here in the Drome and I think there is already [I]recognition for playing in registered / recognised tournaments and events.

    Another adverse argument against the creation of such 'ace' statuses which may be encountered is ... Downfall. Whose willing to be exposed to the possibility of holding such a high reputation within the Glory community and yet one careless move ... and it is all over? The result being very embarrassing as of course becoming an ace potentially attracts 'fame' ... With this being one of the downfalls. The most famous 'Ace Death' possibly of all time has in my opinion to be Baron von Richthoven (The Red Baron) but a downfall of this nature will not of course involve death but will involve tremendous loss of credibility and credentials. Who is going to want to risk this happening to them - I for one would think very hard about the price of 'fame' and how this would relate to playing Glory. After all we are all but human and nobody is perfect. The human factor (or human error) can strike at any time. Consider the fun factor of playing again - would this fame factor instead be something which people would be willing to compete for? Excellent idea with potential this may be but as mentioned earlier I think this needs a 'champion' to set it in motion.
    Last edited by Tonx; 05-01-2015 at 17:59. Reason: A few re-writes of this posting!

  21. #21

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    Human nature being what it is Barney, I'm sure that many would take on the mantle of fame without a thought for the consequences. How are the mighty fallen?
    I do like the idea of special, special abilities to differentiate the true leaders from the crowd, but feel that many of us would not have the determination to keep extensive records on our games. I always find the dedication of the chaps who keep the stats for our OTT and WW2 solo games astounding. I would fall by the wayside after a month or two.
    Great ideas from both yourself and Mau for those members interested in seeking new ways to enliven their playing experience.
    I hope a few more chaps join in on this very exciting conversation.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mau Fox View Post
    here is a question it was time I liked to ask: How many of you regular players use the "pilot's cards" or Ace Skills in regular games?
    Most games not at all, but we do use some in the OTT campaign - they're not the official ones though they are closely linked & there are cards that we can print to use for management purposes and they have to earned through victories. To me they are survival tools for characters in campaigns - guns that don't jam, hits that don't count, bonus' to hits - and are probably best used for that or as a balance for uneven games or some sort of historical recreation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mau Fox View Post
    ...I think that is the "Ace Skills" title that puts a psychological barrier to the regular use of these cards and that, in my opinion, a "Pilot Abilities" title could improve their use....So, what are your thoughts?
    Not at all - I think it's the encumbrance of further things to check in a fast paced game - some have already said they forget a skill when they have it, I know I have, and then there is the faffing about with recovery counters.
    There's also the 'gamey' element of the skills side of things, people will always want the best and cherry pick the skills eg the ubergamers first selection will be Chivalrous Aptitude as an ace that chooses this skill may choose two more skills such as perfect aim & sniper which will more than make up for the deficit CA places upon them. Maybe a blind draw of skills may be the answer to that...!
    I see where you're coming from though Mau - the aces had inherent pilot abilities that made them into aces so I don't see anything wrong with a non ace using an ace skill if that's how you want to play it. Maybe you could set up a game where every player draws a skill blind & on attaining 5 victories they get another skill ? Whether changing the name will make any difference to usage I don't know but I'm pretty sure that if only one player is given the skills they will fast become a bullet magnet !

    "He is wise who watches"

  23. #23

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    I voted for sometimes.

    Use them in my WGF & WGS solo campaigngs and we had one game at Summer Con 14 with ace cards. (hosted by Andrzej)
    Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    I see where you're coming from though Mau - the aces had inherent pilot abilities that made them into aces so I don't see anything wrong with a non ace using an ace skill if that's how you want to play it. Maybe you could set up a game where every player draws a skill blind & on attaining 5 victories they get another skill ? Whether changing the name will make any difference to usage I don't know but I'm pretty sure that if only one player is given the skills they will fast become a bullet magnet !
    This is another fantastic idea which IMHO still centres upon that central 'truly earned ... deserved' theme. I agree with what you say about the bullet magnet factor though - one of the aspects I was considering under the general heading of Downfall but put in a better / phrased in a better way than I have put it.

    The more I think about it the more I would like to 'have and hold' something once earned and deserved which is tangible and declares my achievement in becoming an 'Ace' ... Which is why I cannot wait until my twelfth month of Gold Membership passes which is when I gather I receive the Gold Membership coin. Then I will have something to show off in a positive manner to friends and family about being a seriously committed Glory player. Even if it was a manoeuver deck-sized card certificate it would still serve this purpose: All part of becoming an 'Ace' after all ...

  25. #25

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    We pretty rarely use them. I would like to introduce them in my games but I have a hard enough time trying to get everyone playing to all agree to use the altitude rules. Maybe because our group doesn't get together and play all that often but who knows.

  26. #26

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    Some more interestng ideas here.

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    I see where you're coming from though Mau - the aces had inherent pilot abilities that made them into aces so I don't see anything wrong with a non ace using an ace skill if that's how you want to play it. Maybe you could set up a game where every player draws a skill blind & on attaining 5 victories they get another skill ?
    This is a good and fast one Dave.
    A bag with tokens inside and players allowed to draw one in order to upgrade his pilot seems it could work. But players would need a sort of crib sheet showing Aces/pilots abilities, this to prevent a continue looking at the Rule Book. Hence why cards with explained a particular ability is still needed. This to speed up te game.

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    I know I have, and then there is the faffing about with recovery counters.
    This is a point raised by some guys I talked with about the Aces Abilities.
    Personally I think that given the fast pace of the game, in scale termes, recovery points are needed in order to represent a pilot who need time to get clear from the stress cumulated performing a given ability. But I have been suggested that performing "one special ability per turn" could help to soften the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    There's also the 'gamey' element of the skills side of things, people will always want the best and cherry pick the skills eg the ubergamers first selection will be Chivalrous Aptitude as an ace that chooses this skill may choose two more skills such as perfect aim & sniper which will more than make up for the deficit CA places upon them. Maybe a blind draw of skills may be the answer to that...!
    This could be a problem of balance, we all know that we are "humans" so the gamey side of the force is always strong. That's why such an ability would have a higher cost: a rookie pilot could not benefit such a card in the early stages of his career. More, this "Chivalrous Aptitude" could not lead to automatically give two aces abilities rather a certain "bonus" points to buy other ability cards.

    Another thing I was ruminating on is that, in a scenario, assigning a given amount of "upgrade" points to each side could improve the willingness to replay it several times as different Aces/Pilots abilities would give a wider outcome.

    I am glad that all of you guys are willing to share your thoughts!

    Mau

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mau Fox View Post
    I am glad that all of you guys are willing to share your thoughts!

    Mau
    Thank you for starting such an interesting discussion on here in return. Not long ago I read through the full range of Ace Tokens and Special Skills available having so far never really paid much attention to this section of the Rule Book ... The special skill about being able to get away successfully made me fall off my chair laughing ... I mean how on earth is that regarded as a special skill??!

    'Yeah, I'm an Ace ... I'm hot at running away!!!'

    This by the way was my 200th posting on here - so my status may now change to undergoing first solo or similar because of it
    Last edited by Tonx; 05-02-2015 at 06:55. Reason: Typo!

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussietonka View Post
    Thank you for starting such an interesting discussion on here in return. Not long ago I read through the full range of Ace Tokens and Special Skills available having so far never really paid much attention to this section of the Rule Book ... The special skill about being able to get away successfully made me fall off my chair laughing ... I mean how on earth is that regarded as a special skill??!

    'Yeah, I'm an Ace ... I'm hot at running away!!!'

    This by the way was my 200th posting on here - so my status may now change to undergoing first solo or similar because of it
    "Brave, brave Sir Robin..."

  29. #29

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    Mau,

    Thanks for opening this poll. I haven't used Ace skills yet, but I plan to. There are many interesting documented historical engagements out there. Many of them have aces taken on a larger number of aircraft, (the "Swede", Schopfel, Lucchini, _______ [enter your favorite ace here]). So, ace skills along with deployment will play a major part in recreating these historical situations and outcomes.

  30. #30

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco Lucchini View Post
    "Brave, brave Sir Robin..."
    LOVE IT!!! Seeing this has just made my day!

  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warhawk View Post
    God Bless the Monty Python!

  33. #33

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    Guys, this is what I have in mind.

    This is just an example and I am not even skillful at graphic, but I think it could be a boost to implementing the Aces Skills in a more regular usage.

    Trench strafer - example.JPG

    We have a card with a nice image, its cost, a categorized Ability, its Ability Title, who can benefit from this Ability (in this example the Pilot only thus not the Crew), and a short and hopefully clear description of what the card's benefit is.

    Thoughts?

    Mau

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mau Fox View Post
    Guys, this is what I have in mind.

    This is just an example and I am not even skillful at graphic, but I think it could be a boost to implementing the Aces Skills in a more regular usage.

    Trench strafer - example.JPG

    We have a card with a nice image, its cost, a categorized Ability, its Ability Title, who can benefit from this Ability (in this example the Pilot only thus not the Crew), and a short and hopefully clear description of what the card's benefit is.

    Thoughts?

    Mau
    Mau,

    That is very cool. Nice graphics too! As I play WGS, points are a bit esoteric, but I like the idea.

    What do I do if USN planes only create blue manna?

    Allen

  35. #35

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    Thanks Allen,

    Quote Originally Posted by Franco Lucchini View Post
    points are a bit esoteric, but I like the idea.
    Yes, I know that. Actually points are still a bit esoteric, but I read that Andrea is developing a points system for WoG. So this could be not so that esoteric anymore in a hopefully near future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Franco Lucchini View Post
    What do I do if USN planes only create blue manna?
    House Rules are exactly for that!

    Mau

  36. #36

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    I was with you right up until you mentioned points Mau.
    Nice looking card though

  37. #37

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    Points, eeek!

    Just off the top of my head, I think maybe a progression could work. There can be several tracks one can follow to improve on their skill of choice.

  38. #38

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    Great looking card there - and an idea which could be transferred across to WGS too in the long run.

    I definitely reckon that you could champion this idea Mau for both WGF / WGS especially if like you say a relevant points system is under development currently.

    Your enthusiasm for this idea has just scored you a reputation point from me anyway - a very well deserved one too!

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussietonka View Post
    Your enthusiasm for this idea has just scored you a reputation point from me anyway - a very well deserved one too!
    Thanks Barnaby and guys for the REPs. These are much appreciated!

  40. #40

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    Guys, I can feel your pain when it comes to the word "points" in WoG as it is mine when I hear the word "dice".

    So, let's put the point system aside for a while and just let's think about another progression to assign Aces Skills.

    Definitely a progression is needed, be it a point system or another kind, otherwise as Dave pointed out, each player would choose that "Chivalrous Aptitude" just to have the possibility to field two Skills.
    And there must be a ceiling to how many Skills a player can field per aircraft, otherwise the game could be really unbalanced.

    As I said, I like the idea that Pilots have to deserve the possibility to field Skills and in a Campaign game I see no difficult to imagine how this could work.
    But how to implement this in a casual game?

    I can understand that novices could be scared of complicating a game the first time they play it. That's why in the Rule Book, Aces Skill are an advanced option.
    But it is surprising to know that old grognard gamers rarely use these Skills in a one-evening game session.

    Hence, I would like to see the Skills divided into Basic and Advanced. In that way each player could start with some common Basic abilities to choose from and thus starting to familiarize with the Skills/Recovery system.
    I like the historical method of the 5 kills thus some other abilities might require the 5 Kills status and others more advanced a greater numbers of kills.
    This obviously should be reflected in the card applying any sort of mark (it comes in mind a little "Blue Max" icon instead of the points in the upper corner of the card. Just to throw in the first idea).

    In this way, friendly gaming sessions could add even more appeal if I know that in the previous meetings, Dave scored 5 Kills and I still have to go for my first thus knowing that I could field Basic Abilities only. .

    Believe me guys, I am really interested in your opinions.

    Mau

  41. #41

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    Well the cards are superb Mau. We all know about the points thing, but again you can take them or leave them.
    I would use your cards and ignore the points.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  42. #42

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    Thanks Rob .

    I might play with this idea for a while ...

    This is how I see the Chivalrous Aptitude Card.

    Attachment 163978

    I could end with designing a new Ace Skills deck .

    Mau

  43. #43

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    I messed up with the attachment . This is how I see the Chivalrous Aptitude Card.

    Chivalrous Aptitude - example.JPG

    Mau

  44. #44

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    Certainly an upgrade on the cards I am using at present. Just shows how we are moving on and improving things all the time.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mau Fox View Post
    ... there must be a ceiling to how many Skills a player can field per aircraft, otherwise the game could be really unbalanced...
    Agreed - it also becomes very difficult tracking recovery tokens

    Quote Originally Posted by Mau Fox View Post
    ...I like the idea that Pilots have to deserve the possibility to field Skills and in a Campaign game...But how to implement this in a casual game?
    This has to be scenario driven or simply agreed by the players for one off games - if you play more than that ....... you are campaigning !

    Quote Originally Posted by Mau Fox View Post
    ... it is surprising to know that old grognard gamers rarely use these Skills in a one-evening game session....
    Think that's been explained Mau - the extra layer of complexity probably puts most of us off as it can slow the game down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mau Fox View Post
    ... I would like to see the Skills divided into Basic and Advanced...
    That will be harder than it sounds - here is the list of skills I lifted from Andreas points sticky:
    SKILLS
    Acrobatic Pilot: 8 - Manoeuvre
    Daredevil: 6 - Manoeuvre
    Height control: 6 - Manoeuvre
    Good at Escaping: 7 - Evasion
    Lucky Pilot: 7 - Evasion
    Chivalrous Aptitude: -5 - Personal
    Strong Constitution: 5 - Personal
    Super Ace: 8 - Personal
    Bullet Checker: 8 - Technical
    Incendiary Bullets: 6 - Technical
    Technical Eye: 5 - Technical
    Itchy Trigger Finger: 6 - Combat
    Perfect Aim: 8 - Combat
    Sniper: 8 - Combat

    One or two I might classify as advanced but most could be inherent basic skills. I'd therefore suggest that you divide the abilities into their five categories of Manoeuvre, Evasion, Personal, Technical & Combat; create a handful of cards for the general headings and let the players draw a card blind - this will give them their area of expertise - they can then either be given the choice of skill from that area, or, again draw blind from that deck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mau Fox View Post
    ...I like the historical method of the 5 kills thus some other abilities might require the 5 Kills status and others more advanced a greater numbers of kills. This obviously should be reflected in the card applying any sort of mark (it comes in mind a little "Blue Max" icon instead of the points in the upper corner of the card. Just to throw in the first idea)....
    This would be campaigning even if in a casual gaming setting ! The Ace skills we use in OTT (cards posted by Max Headroom here) have a second tier to the ability that allow for progression of a given skill eg: Acrobatic pilot II allows the pilot to immel without a straight before or after the immel card. I suggest this is something you could consider also as it will expand the scope of what you have set out to achieve.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mau Fox View Post
    ...Believe me guys, I am really interested in your opinions....
    Hope so !

    "He is wise who watches"

  46. #46

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    With regard to pilots in a campaign game gaining skills as their experience increases, I found myself thinking thus:

    A common suggestion seems to be that pilot (or observer) would be eligible to receive a new skill every five kills (whether the skill is selected or random). However, I'm somewhat dubious about this - it's simple, which is nice but at the same time I feel there's something inherently 'wrong' in a person knowing their next success will give them a new skill. While of course we're talking about a game here, that option feels just a bit too 'gamey'.

    Do I have alternatives? Yes, a couple. A simple one and one that's a bit fiddly.

    1. Instead of receiving a skill every five kills, make subsequent skills harder to earn (after the first). So instead of receiving a skill every five kills, increase the requirements.
    For example, instead of every five levels (5 / 5 / 5 / 5 / 5 getting a skill at 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 /25 kills) make it perhaps (5 / 6 / 7 / 8 / 9 which gives skills at 5 / 11 / 18 / 26 / 35). The scale of the increase can be chosen to be whatever you'd want it to be.

    The official ace pilot cards give MvR (and him alone) five skills, so with this in mind the progress shouldn't be any slower than (5 / 10 / 15 / 20 / 25, thus earning skills at 5 / 15 / 30 / 50 / 75 kills) otherwise getting all his skills would be impossible. Of course in game terms it would be more likely that MvR had his five skills before his 75th confirmed kill...

    This version is as easy as the 'every five kills' option, and reflects the process of diminishing returns. It's still 'gamey' as the skills are still at fixed levels.

    2. Do all people learn/improve/gain experience at the same rate? No, of course they don't. Some people learn languages easier, some people remember things better than others, and some people just 'click' when they read or see or experience something while someone else doesn't.

    The easiest way to simulate this without assigning roleplaying game type stats to pilots is by the introduction of the dreaded random factor. Roll a die...
    For example, starting with the fifth kill a pilot may receive a skill. But unlike the 'gamey' option, you shouldn't be able to guarantee it. Pick the success ratio that you like...

    Every kill starting with the fifth, a pilot has a 1 in 10 chance of getting a skill?
    Every odd-numbered kill starting with the fifth, a pilot has a 1 in six chance of getting a skill?
    Every fifth kill, starting with the fifth, a pilot has a 1 in 2 chance of getting a skill?

    I'd suggest limiting a pilot to five skills maximum, regardless of how skills are awarded and how often.

    Of course dice are fickle, so a pilot could get lucky or unlucky and increase faster or slow than another. But that's kind of tough...life is like that! And since we're all gentlemen here (with the exception of the ladies, who are of course ladies) a roll of the dice will naturally be reported honestly and openly, no matter what. (Sadly I've played games with people whose dice rolling was as lucky as it was hidden away from sight...!


    3. Should skills be random or selected? There is argument for both. But how about a third option? Let's say a pilot is eligible for a skill at every fifth kill, the basic way. If he 'cashes in' that eligibility at this fifth kill, he gets a random skill. But if he 'cashes in' two skill eligibility he can choose his skill... So he could 'buy' a random skill for one 'skill point' (for want of a better term) or 'buy' a chosen skill for two 'skill points' (the ones he received at the 5th and 10th kills under the basic award system). Slower progress, but more controlled, if the player so wanted.

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    After the last Glory Session I just played I have got a brand new ace category - which could apply to both WGF and WGS now I come to think of it:

    Boom Card Magnet / Magnate: Draws five Boom Cards in a single WGS Session ...

    Flying same aircraft on all five occasions too - am beginning to think that it's jinxed (unlucky!) Unbelievable but it has made for a funny day's playing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Maybe a blind draw of skills may be the answer to that...!
    That sound like a plan to me!!
    Great idea Dave.

    I'll try that on my next gamenight

    P-G

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    I'd therefore suggest that you divide the abilities into their five categories of Manoeuvre, Evasion, Personal, Technical & Combat; create a handful of cards for the general headings and let the players draw a card blind - this will give them their area of expertise - they can then either be given the choice of skill from that area, or, again draw blind from that deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromoi View Post
    I'd suggest limiting a pilot to five skills maximum, regardless of how skills are awarded and how often.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mau View Post
    Recovery counters. I have been suggested that performing if desired "one special ability per turn" could help to soften the problem.

    Thank you all guys. I think I have all the ingredients. I will try to mix these with some spices and cook 'em up.

    Mau

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mau Fox View Post
    Thank you all guys. I think I have all the ingredients. I will try to mix these with some spices and cook 'em up.

    Mau
    Mau, the very best of luck to you at this stage. But do please let us know how things are going in the meantime ...

    This has been such an interesting discussion and I reckon you are well on the way to 'championing' this idea within WGF / WGS too as it is transferrable in the long term. I am glad to hear that you have been receiving reputation points too

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