Repaint Research from A Bit O' Lace

**Diamondback** · 04-17-2015 16:34

Folks, I mentioned some research I'd done on colors and markings of the 8th AF B-17 fleet to Keith suggesting a subforum for Colors & Markings using a hierarchical structure, and he suggested it might be better to throw up a thread for each squadron. As I'm mainly starting with easy repaints, I'll be focusing on OD schemes for Fs and NMF for G's, starting with the largest formations below Numbered Air Force and then drilling down to individual squadrons and ultimately individual aircraft where possible.

Right now, I'm going to post the data for accurizing A Bit O' Lace and her 709th Bomb Squadron sisters, around the "Transition Era"--wing chevrons were being phased out as NMF Fortresses were coming in, but eventually this post is going to become an Index with links to other posts and threads as I pull VIII Bomber Command together piece-by-piece.

First, though, we need to lay some groundwork with technical and organizational data, how the pieces fit together.

UNIT STRUCTURE, starting from the top
Numbered Air Force: At first, Numbered AFs were the American air commands within a given theater--as numbers of men and machines built to a crescendo, however, it became necessary to create a Theater Air Forces level over multiple Numbered AF's. Today, Numbered AF refers to specific aircraft type and mission, and the 8th AF still handles the USAF strategic bomber force.
Air Division: The next step down, a single AD would usually have up to four Combat Wings. Today, AD's handle their mission for a specific area under Numbered AF.
Combat Wing: The upper of two Middle Management layers squashed into the modern Wing. A Wing usually had three or four Groups.
Group: The lower level of Middle Management, usually with up to four Squadrons. Today's Wings operate more like reduced WWII Groups, one to three Squadrons (and in some cases like the 62nd Airlift Wing at McChord, you'll have two squadrons of personnel sharing one's worth of aircraft) all based on the same airfield.
"What does all this mean to ME?"
Good question, with a simple answer--in Memphis Belle's day ETO skies were usually full of a dull OD overcast, while the transition to NMF (clearcoated bare metal) aircraft from around February-July 1944 made the skies over Europe a very colorful place. Each and every one of the two AD's, eight CW's, twenty-six Bomb Groups and up to 104 individual Bomb Squadrons all had their own unique set of symbols, colors and markings. What we're gonna do here is try to make a little sense of that cacophony of color so that you can tell what it means, and by the time this is done you'll be able to look at a photo of a B-17 from the ETO and be able to tell who's flying it and roughly when the photo was taken.

A NOTE ON COLORS
Ares selects colors for their miniatures using the Pantone gradient system, while WWII American-built aircraft were painted with colors in a system called Army-Navy Aviation which carried over into today's Federal Standard 595c. The two systems are incompatible with few to no direct crossover, and I've *repeatedly* told Ares they need to invest in a set of FS595 color samples or if they can find them ANA color chips but it's fallen on deaf ears, which explains why Memphis Belle's colors look so odd when next to a model in the correct shade of OD. I am going to refer to paint colors from here on by their three-digit Army-Navy Aviation identification codes (500s are generally gloss, 600s semi-gloss or flat), going back to "12-inch scale" specs. Specific shade callouts are my best guesses based on standard USAAF practices of wanting to simplify supply chains as much as possible, eyeball adjustment for color deterioration of period photography and expert sources.

Early 500-series colors, mostly gloss

Later 600-series colors, mostly semigloss and flat

501 True Blue [today FS15102 OSHA Safety Blue]
502 Insignia Blue [today FS15044 Gloss Insignia Blue]
503 Willow Green [today FS14187 Oxygen Tank Green]
504 Olive Drab [today FS14087, abandoned]
505 Light Yellow [today FS13655 OSHA Safety Yellow]
506 Orange Yellow [today FS13538 DoT Highway Yellow]
507 Navy A/C Cream [today FS13594 Aircraft Cream]
508 Int'l Orange [today FS12197, abandoned]

601 N/S Insignia White [today FS37875 Aircraft White]
602 Light Grey [today FS36440 Light Gray]
603 Sea Grey [today FS36118 Gunship Gray]
604 Black [today FS37038 Navy Black #3]
605 Insignia Blue [today FS35044 A/C Insignia Blue]
606 Semi-Gloss Sea Blue [today FS25042, abandoned]
607 N/S Sea Blue [today FS35042 Sea Blue]
608 Intermediate Blue [today FS35164 Navy Blue 212]
609 Azure Blue [today FS35231, abandoned]
610 Sky [today FS34424, abandoned]
611 Interior Green [today FS34151 Interior Green]
612 Medium Green [today FS34092 Gunship Green]
613 Olive Drab [today FS34088 Olive Drab CARC]
614 Orange Yellow [today FS33538 Traffic Yellow]
615 Middle Stone [today FS30266 Tan]
616 Sand [today FS30279 Desert Sand]
617 Dark Earth [today FS30118 Field Drab Camo]
618 Dull Red [today FS30109 Dull Red]
619 Insignia Red [today FS31136 CARC A/C Red]
620 Light Gull Grey [see 602]
621 Dark Gull Grey [today FS36231 A/C Gray #23]
622 Gloss Jet Black [see 515]
623 Gloss Sea Blue [today FS15042 Sea Blue]
624 Olive Green [abandoned w/o FS number assigned]
625 Seaplane Grey [today FS26081 Sea Plane Gray]
626 S/G Insignia White [abandoned w/o FS number assigned]
627 Field Green [today FS34097 Field Green]
628 Desert Drab [today FS30219 Sierra Tan]
629 S/G Int'l Orange [abandoned w/o FS number assigned]
630 Light Green [abandoned w/o FS number assigned]
631 Shadow Green [today FS34079 Army Forest Green]
633 Fluorescent Red-Orange [abandoned w/o FS number assigned]
634 Fluorescent Yellow-Orange [abandoned w/o FS number assigned]

There are a number of paint charts for converting these into model paint, which sometimes conflict; my personal preference is the one at http://www.paint4models.com/

"Enough technobabble, you promised PAINT and I want it NOW!"
OK, OK... Here we go. Layer by layer.
AIR DIVISION: Each Air Division was assigned a geometric symbol on the tail to identify its aircraft. ABOL's 3rd AD carried squares, white on OD aircraft or Black on NMF.
COMBAT WING: Typically left alone to develop their own unique symbology. ABOL's 4th CW used yellow tailgroups (spine/fin/rudder and tailplane/elevator), along with colored chevrons on the wing, gradually replaced with colored bands around the rear-fuselage and spine, to identify BG. My guess is the tailgroup was ANA 505 Light Yellow, but the Orange Yellows (ANA 506 or 614, roughly today's American road-sign/stripe yellow) cannot be definitively ruled out yet. Wing chevrons introduced Sept 44, yellow tails/wingtips and colored bands introduced and chevrons started phasing out Jan 45 (existing aircraft kept chevrons with new markings, but chevrons not on new A/C after 1/45).
BOMB GROUP: Within the AD, each BG was assigned a letter to be painted inside the AD's shape symbol. ABOL's 447th BG was assigned "K", hence the "Square-K" tail symbol. Additionally, as noted 4th CW used colored "cigar bands" to ID its groups, and the 447th used two bright-green bands (my best guess is ANA 503 Willow Green or 612 Medium Green, which I'm still researching) and/or a dark blue chevron (not black, but very close, probably one of the Insignia Blues, ANA 502 or 605, or less likely ANA 605 516 Strata Blue).
BOMB SQUADRON: Early on, squadrons were ID'ed by a two-letter code (on Memphis Belle, the "DF"), gradually phased out as more visible markings came in. The 447th BG used colored engine cowlings, sometimes the entire cowl and others just the front half, to ID its squadrons starting from Sept 44, and ABOL's 709th BS used white as its color. (White is White, not a lot of shading, but probably ANA 511 or 626 Insignia White since they'd want something with plentiful supply.)

"All this means WHAT to ME?"
OK, in a nutshell, to accurize ABOL or paint any other 709th BS NMF B-17G, the Ares model needs a little rework. Wing chevrons need to be Insignia Blue, use the existing markings in black to guide your masking tape and spray away. Change the two green bands should be a "bright green" rather than OD--ANA 503 Willow Green is possible, as is the 612 Medium Green of Memphis Belle's splotches, so pick your color, roll the dice and take your chances and overpaint that OD. ABOL's elevators should also be OD rather than NMF as they were replaced at the same time as the rudder, so either try to match the Ares OD or just overpaint all three control surfaces together--this is ABOL specific due to expedient repairs, other 709th A/C had these surfaces in yellow. Finally, paint the cowls and flaps with your favorite white, maybe add a little dirt and weathering.

INDEX (links to follow later)
Eighth Air Force
---VIII Bomber Command

Air Division	Combat Wing	Bomb Group	Bomb Squadrons
1st AD	1st CW	91st BG	322nd BS, 323rd BS, 324th BS, 401st BS
1st AD	1st CW	381st BG	532nd BS, 533rd BS, 534th BS, 535th BS
1st AD	1st CW	398th BG	600th BS, 601st BS, 602nd BS, 603rd BS
1st AD	40th CW	92nd BG	325th BS, 326th BS, 327th BS, 407th BS
1st AD	40th CW	306th BG	367th BS, 368th BS, 369th BS, 423rd BS
1st AD	40th CW	305th BG	364th BS, 365th BS, 366th BS, 422nd BS (note: many 422nd A/C OD-over-black; night-ops specialists)
1st AD	41st CW	303rd BG	358th BS, 359th BS, 360th BS, 427th BS
1st AD	41st CW	379th BG	524th BS, 525th BS, 526th BS, 527th BS
1st AD	41st CW	384th BG	544th BS, 545th BS, 546th BS, 547th BS
1st AD	94th CW	351st BG	508th BS, 509th BS, 510th BS, 511th BS
1st AD	94th CW	401st BG	612th BS, 613th BS, 614th BS, 615th BS
1st AD	94th CW	457th BG	748th BS, 749th BS, 750th BS, 751st BS
3rd AD	45th CW	96th BG	337th BS, 338th BS, 339th BS, 413rd BS
3rd AD	45th CW	388th BG	560th BS, 561st BS, 562nd BS, 563rd BS
3rd AD	45th CW	452nd BG	728th BS, 729th BS, 730th BS, 731st BS
3rd AD	13th CW	95th BG	334th BS, 335th BS, 336th BS, 412th BS
3rd AD	13th CW	100th BG	349th BS, 350th BS, 351st BS, 418th BS
3rd AD	13th CW	390th BG	568th BS, 569th BS, 570th BS, 571st BS
3rd AD	4th CW	94th BG	331st BS, 332nd BS, 333rd BS, 410th BS
3rd AD	4th CW	447th BG	708th BS, 709th BS, 710th BS, 711th BS
3rd AD	4th CW	486th BG	832nd BS, 833rd BS, 834th BS, 835th BS
3rd AD	4th CW	487th BG	836th BS, 837th BS, 838th BS, 839th BS
3rd AD	93rd CW	385th BG	548th BS, 549th BS, 550th BS, 551st BS
3rd AD	93rd CW	34th BG	4th BS, 7th BS, 18th BS, 391st BS
3rd AD	93rd CW	490th BG	848th BS, 849th BS, 850th BS, 851st BS
3rd AD	93rd CW	493rd BG	860th BS, 861st BS, 862nd BS, 863rd BS

Note: 2nd and 4th Air Divisions were B-24 organizations; will be discussed later if Ares releases a Liberator

**Naharaht** · 04-18-2015 20:56

That was a dedicated piece of research, Diamondback!

**Diamondback** · 04-18-2015 21:59

Thanks, but this was just the intro... Keith suggested a post per squadron, but I'm starting to think per-group with reserved followup posts per squadron in the thread--also maybe suggesting that each thread be its Official Painting Thread for posting repaints of that BG.

What do you guys think about making all this accessible without burying the board in tons of new threads? BG's cut the thread count down to 26 with four short simpler Squadron posts per thread, CW's to eight threads with much longer and more complicated opening post-groups. Problem is, at forty-eight (1943) to seventy-two (Feb 45) aircraft per Heavy (B-17/B-24) group, or 12-18/sq, combat strength not including spares and hacks, that's a lot of territory to cover. (For comparison, a B-25 or B-26 Medium or an A-20 or A-26 Light group had 96, and a B-29 Very Heavy group 15.) I wish Ares would offer decal/card packs for squadronmates... just enough to complete one Bomber Box of 3 (early) or 4 (late).

Seriously, if anybody's crazy enough to sink the cash and labor to buy and repaint the 468 individual aircraft of VIII Bomber Command's B-17 combat strength, Ares should just give you a lifetime supply of free minis or something. And when you consider how many thousands of aircraft had to be pushed out of factories and across the Atlantic to maintain that 468 operational strength and that 1 in 3 never came home... some scary implications--you were safer as an infantryman under Patton than as a Fortress or Liberator aircrewman.

**Jager** · 04-19-2015 04:54

Serious research here, DB. I'm thinking you should stay with this thread, but maybe make a doc file, or PDF for the files; more likely several of them.
Karl

**csadn** · 04-19-2015 16:54

What's the italicizing in the index indicate?

**Diamondback** · 04-19-2015 16:57

LOL, shoulda explained that... I used italics to indicate the units A Bit O' Lace was part of.

**Tonx** · 04-20-2015 19:51

Excellent spot of research there.

For now my Bit o' Lace resides upstairs in the attic in 1/72 Scale until my WGS Mini arrives ... I have the original Airfix Boeing B-17G Flying Fortress built and painted with F-Toys 1/144 Scale rendition at her side. All I seem to remember was that it was a bit of a devil to paint and that I used Humbrol enamel paints (still available in the UK) when I did so. The F-Toys rendition came ready-painted out of the packet. Numbers 11 Silver / 24 Yellow / 33 Black / 34 white / 56 gunmetal / 163 V-Logos / rudder and Stripes. Plus interior green and crew paint colours for all figures which I painted and included.

Airfix rendition definitely has the Cheyenne style tail gunner station / installation. Still an impressive model even these days: APC (UPC?) manufactured this same kit over in the USA.

**Diamondback** · 04-20-2015 20:15

Worth noting is that the Cheyenne "Pumpkin" could be retrofitted to any tail-turret Fort (E/F/G) in the field, but was generally only done to low-time, low-wear G's--these aircraft were built to last a certain number of flight hours before being junked, reclaimed for parts and replaced by newer machines. (Worth noting, though, that many once officially "written off" from combat strength were pieced back together and reused in new roles like assembly ships and squadron hacks.) Ditto cheek guns--and per my research, Ares only modeled 2 out of three guns on the F. I'll see about tackling the E/Fs in each squadron's entry, or as part of an overall "Foundation Laying" post.

**Tonx** · 04-20-2015 20:31

Originally Posted by Diamondback

Ares only modeled 2 out of three guns on the F. I'll see about tackling the E/Fs in each squadron's entry, or as part of an overall "Foundation Laying" post.

I must admit that from the stock photos of the Miniature the nose gun on the B-17F looks more like some sort of antenna stuck straight out like that! But I cannot see where there are other guns missing from - the F was never fitted with the chin gun turret in the nose area unlike the G.

**Diamondback** · 04-20-2015 20:56

Many E's and F's did have a nose gun, but almost all had both cheeks. For example, MacArthur's personal bird, built as an E, was refitted with an F "fishbowl" gun-bearing nose transparency. (That and maybe the tail were actually the only guns Bataan kept.)

Typical gun placement was one side's gun in the #1 window, opposite #2--this was reversed between cheek-mount Fs and Gs, and I have trouble remembering which was port-forward and which was stbd-forward.

**Tonx** · 04-20-2015 21:04

Originally Posted by Diamondback

Many E's and F's did have a nose gun, but almost all had both cheeks. For example, MacArthur's personal bird, built as an E, was refitted with an F "fishbowl" gun-bearing nose transparency. (That and maybe the tail were actually the only guns Bataan kept.)

Typical gun placement was one side's gun in the #1 window, opposite #2--this was reversed between cheek-mount Fs and Gs, and I have trouble remembering which was port-forward and which was stbd-forward.

Cheek mounted B-17F Guns: Starboard Fwd Port Rear. B-17G The Reverse.

Source: B-17F / B-17G models on computer room shelf manufactured by Corgi Aviation Archive - 1/144 Scale.

**Diamondback** · 04-20-2015 21:22

Also, the last F's (the final block that introduced the chin turret to mainline Forts) and first few blocks of G's deleted the cheeks entirely, relying on the chin exclusively--this was found inadequate and the cheek guns swiftly returned both on the lines and in field retrofit. I actually have assembled a spreadsheet of detail changes block-by-block...

**Tonx** · 04-20-2015 21:52

Originally Posted by Diamondback

Also, the last F's (the final block that introduced the chin turret to mainline Forts) and first few blocks of G's deleted the cheeks entirely, relying on the chin exclusively--this was found inadequate and the cheek guns swiftly returned both on the lines and in field retrofit. I actually have assembled a spreadsheet of detail changes block-by-block...

No wonder these aircraft were even more vulnerable to head on attack by the Axis than those fitted with cheek guns / those which retained them already were! I can imagine how quickly they must have been retro-fitted with cheek guns - they gave gunners located forward in the B-17 defence which relied upon a direct line of sight. Whereas with the chin turret though there were appropriate gun sights fitted allowing them to be used they were not 'direct line of sight' (or did not align directly with the weapon unlike the cheek guns and also the waist guns on the B-17F / G Flying Fortresses. I have not got an 'E' version of the aircraft though I know the RAF Coastal Command made excellent use of them. I think they were fitted with the same waist-gunner installations which the F and G were fitted with.

Mind you ... Even with 'direct line of sight' weapons accuracy was still governed by external and at times incalculable influences such as wind / target trajectory and speed / distance once bullet had been fired. This is where the golden rule of aiming and firing slightly ahead of your target came from. In the hope that the bullets being fired in the resultant direction as it is called in physics would score hits upon their target.

**milcoll73** · 04-20-2015 22:18

Originally Posted by Diamondback

Worth noting is that the Cheyenne "Pumpkin" could be retrofitted to any tail-turret Fort (E/F/G) in the field, but was generally only done to low-time, low-wear G's--these aircraft were built to last a certain number of flight hours before being junked, reclaimed for parts and replaced by newer machines. (Worth noting, though, that many once officially "written off" from combat strength were pieced back together and reused in new roles like assembly ships and squadron hacks.) Ditto cheek guns--and per my research, Ares only modeled 2 out of three guns on the F. I'll see about tackling the E/Fs in each squadron's entry, or as part of an overall "Foundation Laying" post.

the belle actually had 2 nose guns and 2 cheek guns as per pics in another thread. not sure why ares chose not to portray them but its easily rectified vie house rules.