The Halberstadt C.V with a sting in it's tail

**andron234** · 04-14-2015 09:05

The Halberstadt C.V, A two man reconnaissance plane built by Halberstädter Flugzeugwerke. Fitted with a Mercedes D.III 6-cylinder water cooled inline engine, 120 kW (160 hp), for greater performance at altitude, with a Service ceiling of 16,600 feet (5,090m) with an endurance: 3 hours the plane had ample time to photograph it's target, Most Halberstadt C.V's had an armament of one 0.312 in (7.92 mm) LMG 08/15 Spandau synchronized machine gun and one 0.312 in (7.92 mm) Parabellum MG14 machine gun on a flexible ring mount in the rear cockpit for the observer, additionally the observer had Grenades and Up to 5 × 20 pound (10 kg) bombs to lob over the side of his machine. Attachment 162689 Attachment 162690 Attachment 162691 Attachment 162692
But in the case of "Brunhilde" she was fitted with a clever refinement/redesign of the MG08, designed at D.W.M. by Karl Heinemann, features a slim, air cooled barrel, telescopic sight and attached reel for the fast-firing gun’s belted 7.92mm ammunition what a "Sting in it's tail" you can also see the racks on the side for the stick Grenades for harassment “bombing” of enemy trenches.

**Naharaht** · 04-14-2015 10:29

It was the German counterpart of the Bristol Fighter. Nice pictures!

**flash** · 04-14-2015 11:22

The Parabellum MG14 was a formidable weapon and carried by most German 2 seaters, bombers and Zeps - they were drum fed (200rd) & could be fitted with a 3x telescopic sight - Brunhildes companion, number 5, in the background of the second shot is sporting one with a scope as well. The others have MG14's too but can't tell if they have the scope.
Good pics of the weapons at TVAL here

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 04-14-2015 11:44

Great pictures Drew. Thanks for posting.
It would be great to have a duel between my Biff and the Halberstadt some time.

Rob.

**flash** · 04-14-2015 11:48

The Halberstadt CL.II we have will give your Biffs the same run for your money Rob !

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 04-14-2015 12:00

May well do Dave. I just have not pitted any of these against each other. Been too busy with The early years and WW2 of late. So much to do, and so little time to do it.
Rob.

**andron234** · 04-14-2015 12:39

Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte

Great pictures Drew. Thanks for posting.
It would be great to have a duel between my Biff and the Halberstadt some time.

Rob.

You fly the Biff, Ill fly a BUFF

LOOP · 04-14-2015 13:09

Really nice pics.

**Lt. S.Kafloc** · 04-15-2015 05:54

Bring it on Rob. I'll take up that challenge.

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 04-15-2015 08:49

Originally Posted by Skafloc

Bring it on Rob. I'll take up that challenge.

Next time we are in the same neck of the woods then Neil.
You bring the Stotties and Pease. I'll supply the G&T.
Rob.

**flash** · 04-15-2015 08:57

Gauntlet thrown, challenge accepted - should be some more good pics from your next meeting - Flame On !!

**Lt. S.Kafloc** · 04-15-2015 12:44

26/27/28 May should be in Derby on a maintenance course. Will confirm tomorrow after I check diary at work. Unless you're backing out?

I'll even fly with one hand behind my back for you....

Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte

Next time we are in the same neck of the woods then Neil.
You bring the Stotties and Pease. I'll supply the G&T.
Rob.

**grumpybear** · 04-15-2015 14:39

I think I will try that duel this weekend

**Jager** · 04-15-2015 15:21

Originally Posted by Skafloc

26/27/28 May should be in Derby on a maintenance course. Will confirm tomorrow after I check diary at work. Unless you're backing out?

I'll even fly with one hand behind my back for you....

We'll want gun-camera footage, of course.

Karl

**Teaticket** · 04-15-2015 15:30

Does this mean Rob gets the A/A firing Biff and your CLII is B/B ?

Originally Posted by Skafloc

26/27/28 May should be in Derby on a maintenance course. Will confirm tomorrow after I check diary at work. Unless you're backing out?

I'll even fly with one hand behind my back for you....

**Jager** · 04-15-2015 15:56

Originally Posted by Teaticket

Does this mean Rob gets the A/A firing Biff and your CLII is B/B ?

Assuming Rob doesn't take the B-A/B one

Karl

**Teaticket** · 04-15-2015 20:56

That would be low.

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 04-15-2015 23:51

Originally Posted by Jager

Assuming Rob doesn't take the B-A/B one

Karl

I only use that one for Home defence against Bombers Karl.
The B/A should be enough to see him off.

Rob.

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 04-15-2015 23:54

Originally Posted by Teaticket

That would be low.

Certainly would Peter.
It's the weight of all those extra guns that does it. Remember that Kyte is the one with the sense of fair play, I'm the one that has to win at all costs.

Rob.

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 04-15-2015 23:59

Originally Posted by Skafloc

26/27/28 May should be in Derby on a maintenance course. Will confirm tomorrow after I check diary at work. Unless you're backing out?

I'll even fly with one hand behind my back for you....

Should be O.K. for that unless Eileen decides to see her bro that week, as it's the first absolutely free one we have in May. Please do not put one hand behind your back, as you will need both to use the fire extinguisher, when my "Biff" catches fire.
Rob.

**Lt. S.Kafloc** · 04-16-2015 09:55

Just flying with one hand, the rear gunner can do what he likes.

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 04-16-2015 11:53

That presumes that I will be flying right up your chuff then Neil.
Rob.

**Jager** · 04-16-2015 12:29

Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte

I only use that one for Home defence against Bombers Karl.
The B/A should be enough to see him off.

Rob.

**Lt. S.Kafloc** · 04-17-2015 11:36

Catch me if you can....said the lamb to Bo-peep.

Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte

That presumes that I will be flying right up your chuff then Neil.
Rob.

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 04-17-2015 12:51

Mary had a little lamb.........................
and on it she had some mint sauce!

Name: images957PD8FJ.jpg
Views: 209
Size: 7.5 KB

How did you guess it is my favourite dish Neil?
Rob.

**Jager** · 04-18-2015 04:36

Mint sauce! Please, pass the horseradish sauce

Karl

**Lt. S.Kafloc** · 04-18-2015 06:11

I'm just a poor wolf in sheep's clothing...come to eat you up.

**zenlizard** · 04-18-2015 09:58

...complete with trash-talk, even.

**Captain Chum** · 04-18-2015 10:05

Great thread, loved the pictures Drew.

I also learned what Stotties, Pease and Chuff is.

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 04-18-2015 10:51

I got the expression from an old R.A.F. friend, now alas deceased, who when a vehicle started to tailgate him, always used the expression, " He's driving right up my chuff". i have never forgotten the expression and presume it is common parlance in the R.A.F.
Rob.

**johnbiggles** · 04-23-2015 11:34

The first references to 'Chuff' or more precisely the 'Chuff Pipe' I know of is Elizabethan English, particularly in the Midlands and North, "That the Devil might ocaisionally reside in the chuff pipe be proven by the noxious gasses that are oft times emitted therefrom"; and a pamphlet from later Elizabethan England in London, where the use of a special tube to blow tobacco smoke up the chuff pipe, was briefly expounded as a remedy for the recently drowned!

**johnbiggles** · 04-23-2015 11:36

Not to be confused with being "Chuffed to meet you old chap"

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 04-23-2015 12:14

Thanks for clearing that up John.

I think?

Rob.

**Grey** · 04-23-2015 12:34

What about a Rumpler with twin rear guns?

**Teaticket** · 04-23-2015 13:33

Nice, I have one more Rumpler to paint, I better give it a twin stinger!

The Entente seemed to put twin guns on many their 2 seaters as they could, why do we not see this with the Germans?

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 04-23-2015 14:36

I think this could become a trend Peter!

Rob.

**Grey** · 04-23-2015 14:55

Originally Posted by Teaticket

Nice, I have one more Rumpler to paint, I better give it a twin stinger!

The Entente seemed to put twin guns on many their 2 seaters as they could, why do we note see this with the Germans?

Just tack a Lewis gun alongside.

**Teaticket** · 04-23-2015 15:02

Originally Posted by Grey

Just tack a Lewis gun alongside.

I'll definitely be doing that!

**flash** · 04-23-2015 22:59

Originally Posted by Teaticket

...The Entente seemed to put twin guns on many their 2 seaters as they could, why do we not see this with the Germans?

Gotta love that Rumpler & the slightly smug look on that gunners face !

I don't know the answer to your question Peter but I would speculate a number of reasons - availability, necessity, ability first come to mind.
Availability: All mg14 Parabellum production apparently went to aircraft gunners - were there enough available to fit them in pairs?
Necessity: With 700rpm & 200 round belts did they actually need a second ?!
Ability: Could a second mg14 actually be fitted on the mount - the size of the drum may have been an issue & would it have been usable if they did ?
Interesting question though & I'm sure there is an answer out there somewhere - I'm also sure that it came as a nasty surprise to anybody taking that particular Rumpler on - nice find Grey.

**Grey** · 04-24-2015 13:21

Recent reading revealed that the Entente had metal gun rings/mounts, while the Germans used primarily wooden ones. It was a strength to weight issue. Germans tended to compensate by expanding the firing arcs (Hannover CL is a good example).

**Dom S** · 04-24-2015 13:40

Yep - a wooden gun ring and two big heavy guns with large magazines were an unworkable combination. I read a lovely account of a crew trialling twin guns - the mounting "weathervaned" due to airflow against the guns (and particularly the magazines) before buckling and snapping the ring. The observer did well not to lose the lot over the side....

When the lightened version of the parabellum appeared (the 14/17?) there was the very occasional field modification for twin observer's guns, but it was still a bit iffy and never caught on.