Dogfighting with an O/400
A forerunner of WWII Bomber Box tactics, maybe, positioning aircraft for interlocking fields of fire?
Always good to have someone who can cover your blind spot. Independent Force DH4s and DH9s usually flew in tight wedges of 6, so the observers could kick out a thoroughly nasty bit of firepower at anyone attempting a stern attack.
Well it certainly makes for interesting reading and food for thought.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
Hey, bombers attacking fighters occasionally occurred at several points in both World Wars.
I really ought to chuck in my favourite WWI dogfight at this point - using a Handley Page O/100 to hunt for Gothas. And apparently actually shooting one down.... ;-)
http://www.207squadron.rafinfo.org.uk/ww1/hpo100.htm
(Scroll down to 29th September for that mission.)
Last edited by Dom S; 04-11-2015 at 14:26.
That would be a 'Clash of the Titans', Dom.
http://www.207squadron.rafinfo.org.uk/ww1/hpo400.htmReturning from a night attack on 18 February 1918, Flight Lieutenant E R Barker achieved the rare Bomber distinction of shooting down an enemy fighter. The attacking aircraft was an Albatross D5 Scout, a formidable fighter, but Barker's observer, Flight Sub-Lieutenant F H Hudson calmly waited until the German Scout was about 20 feet below and 50 feet ahead of him, having completed its first pass, and then fired a burst from the front gun into the enemy's front fuselage. The Scout appeared to stall and, after a second burst, nose-dived apparently out of control.
A very interesting articles there Zoe and Dom.
I have downloaded it to my archives file for future use.
Thanks.
Rob.
Last edited by Flying Officer Kyte; 04-12-2015 at 01:24.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
Oooooh, more, much more interesting scenario building material.
18 Aircraft in 207 squadron - hey Tim - how many have you on order?
Never Knowingly Undergunned !!
Been there. Done that.
[shrug] If a Consolidated Coronado can "assassinate" a H8K at the Marianas Turkey Shoot, I suppose anything is possible....
B-24 liberator vs. Fw-200 Condor.
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
Short Sunderland flying boats engaged Ju88's and Fw-200's over the Bay of Biscay.
Not familiar with this one; a surprise attack, ehOriginally Posted by csadn
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
Something like that. From the account I read: The LRRP flying boats of the USN were expected to give a radio call stating they had left base; unfortunately, the Japanese could hear them, and used this a signal to beat feet homeward. One Coronado crew got bored, and decided to "accidentally" not report leaving base. Sure as sunrise, they came upon an unalerted H8K, and shot it down. The account I read used the word "assassinate"; the image of a Coronado being able to do so strikes me as F***ing Hilarious.Not familiar with this one; a surprise attack, eh
Karl
If we are going for obscure fighters don't forget the two-seater 187mph Australian-built Commonwealth Wirraway which found itself in the same piece of sky over New Guinea with a Mitsubishi Zero. Knowing he had little choice, the Aussie pilot bounced the Zero from behind with his forward guns and got in a long burst. When the aircraft was found the pilot was shot in the back of the head.
On reporting his success to HQ, HQ sent his squadron bottles of beer on the next supply flight. If pushed ANYTHING can become a fighter.
See quote:
Last edited by 'Warspite'; 05-02-2015 at 14:02.
Not even pushed -- in China, the Japanese would use dive-bombers as "auxiliary fighters", as the Chinese acft. they were facing were obsolete or obsolescent, and could be taken by a dive-bomber in a fight.If pushed ANYTHING can become a fighter.
I have a Mike Spick book about combat awareness ('situational awareness' - SA). He quotes a famous Japanese ace (Saburo Sakae?) who, along with others, jumped an Australian Hudson medium bomber. The Hudson pilot saw them coming and - rather than run - the pilot counter-attacked and went for the Japanese. The Japanese were completely taken by surprise, their formation attack was scattered and it eventually took them nearly 10 minutes to shoot down the Hudson, unfortunately killing the crew. The Japanese were full of praise for his actions which - in other circumstances - could have saved the Aussie crew's lives.
Mention has also been made of Short Sunderland flying boats over the Bay of Biscay. Several were engaged in running fights with Ju88 and FW 200 Kondors but one epic battle saw one Sunderland versus a squadron of Ju88. I presume the 88s were the bomber version, not the cannon-armed fighters. At least two 88s were shot down, others were damaged and the Sunderland flew home with crew wounded and dying. It eventually came in to land and effectively sank as it came to the shore. It was riddled with bullets but kept going.
For the most unlikely fighter ever I nominate the Nimrod maritime patrol aircraft:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Siddeley_Nimrod
Hawker Siddeley Nimrods encountered Argentine Boeing 707s on recon several times during the Falklands War. The Argentines were warned and the Nimrods were then duly armed with Sidewinder Air-to-Air missiles. None were ever fired but Argentine Boeing missions were severely curtailed as a result.
And also to be mentioned is that during the early days of World War II, US Naval Doctrine was to use dive bombers in a similar manner against torpedo bombers. http://www.aviation-history.com/airmen/coralsea.htm records " Lieutenant John Leppla who, with his gunner D. K. Liska, had flamed four Japanese planes the day before during the bombing attack on the carrier Shoho, now put his newfound talent to work again. Without hesitation, Leppla sent his Dauntless plunging into the deadly enemy torpedo planes heading for the Lexington. Not only did Leppla send three of these Japanese bombers careening into the water below, he also saved the life of a fellow Dauntless pilot by a daring attack on a Zero, about to shoot down the American. "
Yes it was Sakai, with his squadron, so 9 Zeroes against the lone Hudson. The Australian pilot was Warren Cowan, although the dots weren't joined until many years after the war. When he finally found out who his opponent had been, Sakai actually wrote to the Australian government in an attempt (sadly unsuccessful) to get Cowan decorated.
Dom.
Which in turn says something about Sakai, too--a good man whose tragic misfortune was to be born in the wrong land at the wrong time, a bit like Galland in that way if my Behavioral Analysis and psych profiles are in the ballpark.
What happens when an Honorable Man is required to serve Dishonorable Superiors....
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