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Thread: Zeppelin-Staaken R.VI operations

  1. #1

    Default Zeppelin-Staaken R.VI operations

    Hello fellow pilots,

    as a backer of the current KS campaign I've some questions regarding the ZS R.VI:

    Did these bombers fly only nighttime operations? The ZSs saw action on the East and West Front. On the West Front, did they only participate in the bombing raids against London, or did they conduct bombing of other military targets too?

    Some help is highly appreciated.

  2. #2

  3. #3

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  5. #5

    Default

    Another good book is "Battle of Britain 1917, the First Heavy Bomber Raids on England'. It covers Zeppeliln, Gotha and Giant Bombrer raids.
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/18...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

  6. #6

    Default

    Another great book with beautiful pics, color plates and info is this one:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	German Bombers of WWI.jpg 
Views:	92 
Size:	176.9 KB 
ID:	161050

    It happens that I have a copy of this book in .pdf so, if anyone is interested

    Mau

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mau Fox View Post
    Another great book with beautiful pics, color plates and info is this one:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	German Bombers of WWI.jpg 
Views:	92 
Size:	176.9 KB 
ID:	161050

    It happens that I have a copy of this book in .pdf so, if anyone is interested

    Mau
    I'd be grateful, if you want to share it.

  8. #8

    Default

    My pleasure Dennis, just drop me a PM with an email address.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mau Fox View Post
    It happens that I have a copy of this book in .pdf so, if anyone is interested
    The lizard raises a claw. And yes, I'll PM you with my e-mail.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mau Fox View Post
    Another great book with beautiful pics, color plates and info is this one:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	German Bombers of WWI.jpg 
Views:	92 
Size:	176.9 KB 
ID:	161050

    It happens that I have a copy of this book in .pdf so, if anyone is interested

    Mau
    Ooooh, yes please!

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  12. #12

    Default

    Yes you may Alex .

  13. #13

    Default

    Yes please Mau !

    "He is wise who watches"

  14. #14

    Default

    I would also love a copy if it is not too much trouble Mau.
    of all the Signal books about. That is one of the few I have been unable to get my hands on at the local hobby shop.
    They get them in in dribs and drabs. You just have to jump in when the right one appears on the shelf for a week or so.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  15. #15

  16. #16

    Default

    Apparently none of the R.VIs saw action in the East - though at least one was there for evaluation/training.
    The R.IV did see action though, escorted by Albatros C.IIIs (and along with a miscellany of other R types of varying effectiveness).

    When the R.VIs couldn't get a clear run to London, they bombed Calais, Boulogne etc as secondary targets. When not assigned to bombing England, they were used in a semi-tactical role, 40km or so behind the lines, bombing ammo dumps, airfields, communications with the occasional jaunt to Paris.

    2 R.VIs and an R.XIV were lost to enemy action. French AA gunners outside Paris got one R.VI, the others were both victims of the newly formed RAF 151 squadron Camel Comics, specialised nightfighters formed from 3 nightfighter squadrons that had been tasked with home defence.
    During the five months in which 151 Squadron had taken part in hostilities overseas, the total number of hours flown by night was 1443 hrs 26 mins.

    Sixteen enemy aircraft were destroyed at night on the Allies side of the lines, and five were destroyed on the enemy side and confirmed. Another five were unconfirmed, thus making a total of twenty six successful engagements. Of the enemy aircraft destroyed, twenty two were AEGs, Friedrichshafen or Gothas, with two engines and carrying a crew of three or more. Two were giants
    The later stages of World War I developed into the bombing of towns, initially using airships for the offensive role, but since these machines were slow and not very manoeuvrable, they were sitting targets for anti*aircraft defences and defending fighters. This led to the use of bomber aircraft which were faster, manoeuvrable and with an acceptable radius of action to enable them to be used against towns and other civilian targets. The use of bombers against such targets led to the development of fighters to combat this menace, but since the bomber offensive against towns took place at night, the Allies became alerted to the requirements for fighters to be developed which were capable of being flown in combat at night.

    The South of England and certain towns in France, in particular Abbeville, were being subjected to heavy night raids. It was then decided that a special Night Fighter Squadron should be formed and equipped with Sopwith Camel aircraft. This Squadron was to be formed in England, and when trained to operational standards, sent overseas to fight on the Western Front.



    The first night operations of World War I are reported as being on September 3 1917 when, for the first time, two pilots of No 70 Squadron in France and three pilots from No 44 Squadron took off into the dark in an attempt to intercept enemy bombers. No contact with enemy aircraft was made but the action of taking off at night on minimal instruments, and landing in the dark with limited illumination of the landing area, established the feasibility and potential for defensive night operations. The aircraft used was the Sopwith Camel, and having established that this particular aircraft had potential, it was chosen as the aircraft to be introduced for the role of Night Fighter.

    From September 3 1917 and into the late Spring of 1918, the Germans had become extremely active in night bombing operations. On the night of May 18/19 the ammunition dump at Compagne was destroyed by aerial bombardment with 1000 tons of shells going up, in what must have been a gigantic explosion. On the following night, a raid on Etaples Bridge was not successful but local hospitals were hit. No. 12 Ordnance Depot at Blarges and No. 20 Ordnance Depot at Saigonville were also hit.

    In June 1918 the German bombers switched their activities to the bombing of airfields, and on two nights in July, sixty three attacks involving the dropping of 170 tons of bombs were made.



    This rapid build up in night flying activities, which must have been very cost effective in terms of manpower, machines and the assault factor, was profitable to the Germans in terms of casualties inflicted and damage to the Allied defences. France appealed to the Allies for some form of night defence since anti-aircraft fire appeared to have little defensive effect against such attacks.

    To meet this request from the French and also a similar request from the R.A.F. General Headquarters in France, the Allies formed the first Night Fighter Squadron at Hainault in Essex on June 12 1918, and equipped it with Sopwith Camel aircraft, which had proven potential as a suitable aircraft for this role.
    ...
    The formation of 151 Squadron was undertaken by the formation of three Flights taken from crews of Nos. 44, 78, and 112 Squadrons, which at the time were engaged on Home Defence duties in the United Kingdom.
    ...
    On the night of December 18 1917, he attacked and damaged a Gotha before he lost sight of it due to the flash from his guns which upset his night vision thus negating the re-sighting of the target. The Gotha crashed into the sea on its returning flight. This combat led to a rethink on gun positioning and sighting to ensure that gun flashes did not deteriorate night vision. Finally, twin Lewis guns were fitted on a special double Foster mounting above the centre section. The cockpit was moved further aft and the main fuel tanks brought further forward. The cut in the top mainplane was enlarged and, in some cases, cuts were made in the trailing edge of the bottom mainplane.

    These modifications formed the basis of the Sopwith Camels which equipped 151 Squadron on its formation on June 12 1918.
    ...


    Another enemy aircraft fell to the guns of Capt Yuille’s aircraft. He intercepted a giant R.52 bomber near Talmes which had been sent out to attack Doublens and St Pol. After the attack the enemy aircraft went down in flames and crashed as a burning wreck.

    This giant bomber was the first of its type to be shot down, a distinction for 151 Squadron.
    ...
    As well as defensive sorties being carried out, intruder operations behind enemy lines were also undertaken. On one occasion when aerodromes at Estree-en-Chause and Guizancourt were selected for attack, bombing with 20 lb bombs and strafing with machine guns was carried out. Enemy aircraft returning from bombing raids were also attacked when attempting to land. One machine was shot down by Capt Armstrong, and two others were certainly put out of action by Major Brand and Capt Cockerell, but confirmation could not be obtained.

  17. #17

    Default

    That's some exhaustive info.

  18. #18

    Geisterflieger
    Guest


    Default

    Any trouble if I also join in?

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geisterflieger View Post
    Any trouble if I also join in?
    Ja, Gerne. Bitte.

    Source : http://www.raf151squadron.webspace.v....com/Chap1.htm

    Anything you have on German Nightfighters of the era would be most appreciated. I know some Gotha crews with nightfighting experience converted to Halberstadt CL.IIs and shot down some O/400s, but that's about it. Most of the data I have is on the specialised night bombing aircraft produced in from late 1917 (N-typen).

  20. #20

    Default

    Thank you Mau for your most generous offer. I would love to have the PDF version. I will send you a PM with my email address. Thanks again.

  21. #21

    Geisterflieger
    Guest


    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoe Brain View Post
    Ja, Gerne. Bitte.

    Source : http://www.raf151squadron.webspace.v....com/Chap1.htm

    Anything you have on German Nightfighters of the era would be most appreciated. I know some Gotha crews with nightfighting experience converted to Halberstadt CL.IIs and shot down some O/400s, but that's about it. Most of the data I have is on the specialised night bombing aircraft produced in from late 1917 (N-typen).
    Vielen Dank.

  22. #22

    Default

    I'm a bit surprised that they decided to use the Camel for a nightfighter; poor stability and the need to put the Lewis MGs on the top wing wherein the SE-5a was more stable, already had a Lewis there, and was better at higher altitudes.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  23. #23

    Default

    I think they just used what was most easily available Karl.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  24. #24

    Default

    Makes sense, I guess; a thought: wasn't the RNAS initially tasked with Home Defense, and weren't they hand in glove with the Sopwith company?
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  25. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    I'm a bit surprised that they decided to use the Camel for a nightfighter; poor stability and the need to put the Lewis MGs on the top wing wherein the SE-5a was more stable, already had a Lewis there, and was better at higher altitudes.
    Karl
    Night bombers operated at 2-3000 meters and vs tactical targets would be in an out within an hour. Inline engines took 30 mins to warm up.
    The Lutstreitkrafte used rotary engined aircraft as (day) interceptors for that reason. Strategic Nightfighters were usually apparently 2-seaters with long range - CL.IIs or F2bs - or DH4s (or whatever they had available).



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