JU88 Manoeuvre Cards

**Rebel** · 02-24-2015 07:30

Hi Guys
Help. I have just finished a flight of 4 Zvesda 1:200 JU88,s and very good they look too. However having looked for and fond a suitable aircraft card in the Files section it would appear that the manoeuvre deck is I*. Can anyone tell me where I can find details of this deck? I have looked in the files section but can't seem to find this deck, or many others actually. Is there a list of the available decks both original and custom, anywhere on this site?
Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated. (And would allow me to get on with bombing London.)
Cheers
Rebel

**Marechallannes** · 02-24-2015 09:23

I get the information from the unoffical statistics team that the Ju 88 uses an M deck without the Immelmann maneuver.

M deck = Beaufighter

**fast.git** · 02-24-2015 09:30

Originally Posted by Rebel

Hi Guys
Help. I have just finished a flight of 4 Zvesda 1:200 JU88,s and very good they look too.

Share pics?

**Rebel** · 02-24-2015 09:52

Last coat of varnish still drying. Photos tomorrow. Actually 2 flights of 2, JG 31 and JG 58.
Cheers
Rebel

**Rebel** · 02-24-2015 09:54

Thanks Mate.
Rebel

**Rebel** · 02-25-2015 07:42

Hi All
Photos of my JU88 flights as promissed. These are Zvesda 1:200 kits and are not bad. My only criticism is for the decal set supplied, the fuselage cross is much too big, there is no coloured option to denote individual flights within the squadron and no tail swastika.

**flash** · 02-25-2015 08:27

Very nice Reg - no swastika 'cos it's verboten in Germany of course and I suspect that is where their larger market is.

**BobP** · 02-25-2015 13:10

Great photos. Gives me a paint job for my AIM 1/200 planes. Thanks.

**BobP** · 02-25-2015 13:12

The Ju 88 card I have shows an I deck.

**Rebel** · 02-25-2015 15:50

Originally Posted by BobP

The Ju 88 card I have shows an I deck.

**Rebel** · 02-25-2015 15:51

That's where I started from although my Card says 1*!

**Teaticket** · 02-25-2015 16:28

Nice looking 88s. I have 3 Zvesda 1:200 kits myself to bulid. I Hope mine come out as nice as yours.

**Rebel** · 02-25-2015 16:49

Originally Posted by Teaticket

Nice looking 88s. I have 3 Zvesda 1:200 kits myself to bulid. I Hope mine come out as nice as yours.

**Rebel** · 02-25-2015 16:54

Thanks for the comments.
And in reply to another earlier post from Flash-I know the Swastika is a problem with some suppliers. Just giving a heads up to the lack of one, well two actually. There's no excuse for the oversize fuselage cross though!

**Teaticket** · 02-25-2015 18:04

Just opened one of my 88s. Yikes, the decal for the fuselage is, as you say, outrageous. Time to put in a decal order before I attempt to paint up these babies.

**Flying Helmut** · 02-26-2015 14:14

Didn't someone post on here that the model is 1/200, but the decal sheet is marked 1/144, therefore all the markings are too large?

I don't have the kit myself - it doesn't have enough wings!

**Rebel** · 02-26-2015 14:43

Originally Posted by Flying Helmut

Didn't someone post on here that the model is 1/200, but the decal sheet is marked 1/144, therefore all the markings are too large?

I don't have the kit myself - it doesn't have enough wings!

**Rebel** · 02-26-2015 14:49

You're quite correct. The decal set is marked 1:144. Some of it is usable however for the top and bottom surfaces of the main wings and some of the fuselage marking but that's about all. The actual flight within the squadron was identified with a coloured letter as well as same colour on spinners and wing-tips on some occasions. Decal set is all black.

**Jager** · 02-26-2015 15:13

Originally Posted by Rebel

Hi Guys
Help. I have just finished a flight of 4 Zvesda 1:200 JU88,s and very good they look too. However having looked for and fond a suitable aircraft card in the Files section it would appear that the manoeuvre deck is I*. Can anyone tell me where I can find details of this deck? I have looked in the files section but can't seem to find this deck, or many others actually. Is there a list of the available decks both original and custom, anywhere on this site?
Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated. (And would allow me to get on with bombing London.)
Cheers
Rebel

Sorry, got distracted from this.
What model Ju-88 are you running these as. If you're doing them as Cs (night fighters) than Sven is correct, M* deck.
If it's the A model (medium bomber BoB time) then a K(b) deck (K deck without 45 degree turns, fast side slips and reversals).
If a post '43 model, which role?
Karl

**Rebel** · 02-26-2015 15:39

Originally Posted by Jager

Sorry, got distracted from this.
What model Ju-88 are you running these as. If you're doing them as Cs (night fighters) than Sven is correct, M* deck.
If it's the A model (medium bomber BoB time) then a K(b) deck (K deck without 45 degree turns, fast side slips and reversals).
If a post '43 model, which role?
Karl

They are A's for BoB. Thanks for the info.

**Jager** · 02-27-2015 00:35

Originally Posted by Rebel

They are A's for BoB. Thanks for the info.

28 hits, 8 ceiling, 7 climb.
Here's what I figure the guns are:
Guns: All guns are A/A:
Nose/FG1: front 90 degree, level to high (can be locked as a fixed gun; if plane is formation flying, straight ahead only)
FG2: front 90 degrees, level and low
Dorsal 1: 3:00 to 6:00 level and high (6:00 high only)
Dorsal 2: 6:00 to 9:00 level and high (6:00 high only)
Ventral: rear 90 degree low only.
Bomb-aimer uses FG1 and FG2
Rear gunner uses D1 and D2
Ventral gunner uses VG.
Pilot can shoot FG1 if it’s locked (1 phase to unlock by bomb-aimer)
Karl

**Boney10** · 02-27-2015 00:57

What uses the K deck ?
I have a bit of BoB kit, including some JU88, so the card in the files is not for use as a BoB plane ?

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 02-27-2015 04:12

Originally Posted by Boney10

What uses the K deck ?
I have a bit of BoB kit, including some JU88, so the card in the files is not for use as a BoB plane ?

Polikarpov from Revolution in the Skies Chris.
Rob.

**Rebel** · 02-27-2015 08:51

Originally Posted by Jager

28 hits, 8 ceiling, 7 climb.
Here's what I figure the guns are:
Guns: All guns are A/A:
Nose/FG1: front 90 degree, level to high (can be locked as a fixed gun; if plane is formation flying, straight ahead only)
FG2: front 90 degrees, level and low
Dorsal 1: 3:00 to 6:00 level and high (6:00 high only)
Dorsal 2: 6:00 to 9:00 level and high (6:00 high only)
Ventral: rear 90 degree low only.
Bomb-aimer uses FG1 and FG2
Rear gunner uses D1 and D2
Ventral gunner uses VG.
Pilot can shoot FG1 if it’s locked (1 phase to unlock by bomb-aimer)
Karl

Thanks for the info. Very interesting.
Watch out London, here we come.
( I was actually alive in London from early 43 onwards and I do remember a V2 Explosion that landed in Nunhead cemetary in 1945-can't remember what happened last week tho'.)

**Teaticket** · 02-27-2015 09:20

Originally Posted by Rebel

Thanks for the info. Very interesting.
Watch out London, here we come.
( I was actually alive in London from early 43 onwards and I do remember a V2 Explosion that landed in Nunhead cemetary in 1945

Thats not something you'd forget!

**Lt. S.Kafloc** · 02-27-2015 10:42

So the cards posted in another section of the forum all marked up as the I deck are wrong?

**Rebel** · 02-27-2015 10:58

Originally Posted by Skafloc

So the cards posted in another section of the forum all marked up as the I deck are wrong?

This brings me right back to where I started.
I downloaded a JU88 airplane card from the files and it says "I*" for the manoeuvre deck so I asked "where could I find an I* deck"?
Why is life so complicated?

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 02-27-2015 12:03

Originally Posted by Skafloc

So the cards posted in another section of the forum all marked up as the I deck are wrong?

Where are the I deck ones Neil?
Rob

**Jager** · 02-27-2015 13:29

I lot of older cards were made years ago when there were not as many decks, and we didn't have as much data about what the decks represented.
the default for lots of bombers was the I deck without reversals and dive cards

Karl

**Naharaht** · 03-05-2015 07:25

The I deck is used by Aichi Val and Junkers Ju.87 Stuka. The Vals and Italian version of the Stuka were not the most popular of models, so you may be able to pick some up fairly cheaply. Some of the bomber versions of the Ju.88 had dive brakes fitted below the wings to allow them to perform dive bombing, so do not necessarily exclude that option.

**Rebel** · 03-05-2015 07:56

Originally Posted by Naharaht

The I deck is used by Aichi Val and Junkers Ju.87 Stuka. The Vals and Italian version of the Stuka were not the most popular of models, so you may be able to pick some up fairly cheaply. Some of the bomber versions of the Ju.88 had dive brakes fitted below the wings to allow them to perform dive bombing, so do not necessarily exclude that option.

I've been doing some thinking on this subject and have decided to go with the M deck for a start. The JU88 was capable of a top speed of 310mph so should not be seen as a slow bomber type. In a tail chase even the Spitfire had a long trip to overhaul a fleeing 88. First try out tonight of a Battle of Britain scenario with the four 88's trying to bomb London.
In defence I have 5 Airfields, Hendon, Croydon, Kenley, Biggin Hill and Tangmere trying to scramble units to intercept.
AAR to follow with some pics. Watch this space.

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 03-05-2015 08:52

Sounds as if that is going to be real fun Reg.
I look forward to seeing your AAR.
Rob.

**Jager** · 03-05-2015 15:25

Originally Posted by Naharaht

The I deck is used by Aichi Val and Junkers Ju.87 Stuka. The Vals and Italian version of the Stuka were not the most popular of models, so you may be able to pick some up fairly cheaply. Some of the bomber versions of the Ju.88 had dive brakes fitted below the wings to allow them to perform dive bombing, so do not necessarily exclude that option.

Despite having dive brakes, the Ju.88 couldn't hit the really steep dives depicted with the I deck cards.
Karl

**Rebel** · 03-05-2015 16:08

Well here it is. my AAR with pics as promised. We were a couple of guys short this evening which meant that we all had too many aircraft to look after so only managed to get two full moves in in just under 2 hours.
Anyway the JU88's rolled a D6 to find which direction they were coming from. This worked out very nicely as we were now coming up from the Thames Estuary and this was the quickest route into London.
In move 1 the JU flight was very quickly bounced by a Flight of 3 Spitfires from Tangmere who appeared out of the clouds and within close range. These were in turn backed up by a Flight of 3 Hurricanes from Croydon who appeared halfway between their Airfield and the 88's. Another Flight of 3 Spitfires also appeared from Kenly who had been vectored in to just outside long range.
It was looking very bad for the Germans. An exchange of fire took place between the Tangmere Spits and the 88's which resulted in 15 damage points on 1 JU and 4 points on a second. The Croydon and Kenley flights soon joined in resulting in 5 more damage points, from the Croydon Hurries, to the already savaged 88 including a wound to the Bomb aimer. It's OK though as the Pilot can also release the ordnance. Kenley then piled in putting 2 points of damage to each of the so far untouched 88's. The Germans were fighting back laying down an unknown amount of damage to all three British flights.
In move two both Kenley and Croydon flights threw doubles which triggered the arrival of "The Hun in the Sun" result with a Flight of 2 ME109's bouncing the Croydon Spits from the rear and at v.close range and 3 ME110's ganging up on a Kenley Spitfire that had managed to get isolated from his fellows.
This resulted in the loss of 1 Hurricane and 1 Spitfire. Meanwhile the 88's had started to cross the outskirts of London, 2 planes completely with the other 2 not far behind. This actually met the pre-arranged German Minor Victory conditions of at least 2 88's bombing London. All the 88's had taken damage with the worst having 21 points and a wounded Bomb-Aimer. Damage to the other 3 ranged from 2 to 9 points. The Messersmidts of the escort were only allowed to stay for three moves which indicated that they were at the limit of range and short on fuel. Given that I suspect that if the game had gone on it would have been much worse for the Bombers. I think we will have to refine the rule a bit and give it another try with more players or less aircraft.
It was now gone 20.00 hours and packing up time.

**Jager** · 03-06-2015 00:32

Wow, a pretty fair scrum there!
Karl

**Rebel** · 03-06-2015 00:56

Originally Posted by Rebel

Well here it is. my AAR with pics as promised. We were a couple of guys short this evening which meant that we all had too many aircraft to look after so only managed to get two full moves in in just under 2 hours.
Anyway the JU88's rolled a D6 to find which direction they were coming from. This worked out very nicely as we were now coming up from the Thames Estuary and this was the quickest route into London.
In move 1 the JU flight was very quickly bounced by a Flight of 3 Spitfires from Tangmere who appeared out of the clouds and within close range. These were in turn backed up by a Flight of 3 Hurricanes from Croydon who appeared halfway between their Airfield and the 88's. Another Flight of 3 Spitfires also appeared from Kenly who had been vectored in to just outside long range.
It was looking very bad for the Germans. An exchange of fire took place between the Tangmere Spits and the 88's which resulted in 15 damage points on 1 JU and 4 points on a second. The Croydon and Kenley flights soon joined in resulting in 5 more damage points, from the Croydon Hurries, to the already savaged 88 including a wound to the Bomb aimer. It's OK though as the Pilot can also release the ordnance. Kenley then piled in putting 2 points of damage to each of the so far untouched 88's. The Germans were fighting back laying down an unknown amount of damage to all three British flights.
In move two both Kenley and Croydon flights threw doubles which triggered the arrival of "The Hun in the Sun" result with a Flight of 2 ME109's bouncing the Croydon Spits from the rear and at v.close range and 3 ME110's ganging up on a Kenley Spitfire that had managed to get isolated from his fellows.
This resulted in the loss of 1 Hurricane and 1 Spitfire. Meanwhile the 88's had started to cross the outskirts of London, 2 planes completely with the other 2 not far behind. This actually met the pre-arranged German Minor Victory conditions of at least 2 88's bombing London. All the 88's had taken damage with the worst having 21 points and a wounded Bomb-Aimer. Damage to the other 3 ranged from 2 to 9 points. The Messersmidts of the escort were only allowed to stay for three moves which indicated that they were at the limit of range and short on fuel. Given that I suspect that if the game had gone on it would have been much worse for the Bombers. I think we will have to refine the rule a bit and give it another try with more players or less aircraft.
It was now gone 20.00 hours and packing up time.

Correction: We started at 20.00 hours and finished at 22.00 hours. I can only claim battle fatigue as managing 9 aircraft was very trying! Rebel

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 03-06-2015 01:04

Thanks for posting Reg.
It certainly gave as good an impression of a dog fight as I have seen yet. The numbers involved made it look just fine, and the bounce and counter bounce was what we read about in memoirs all the time.
Rob.