Italian & Russian Bombers in 1/200 Scale?

[Mycenius]

Hello All,

I have been looking around for what is available for ready made 1/200 models of Italian Bombers (i.e. diecast or WoG style models as opposed to metal wargaming models that need finishing & painting) over and above the very good (but unpainted, etc) stuff being done by AIM, etc. My main interest is Italians, especially the SM-79 Sparrow and similar - anyway I stumbled across these that may or may not have been discussed here previously:

Piaggio P.108 B "Bomber" - 4 Engined Heavy Bomber:

The P.108B was a very good Heavy Medium to Heavy Bomber generally comparable to the main Allied Heavy Bombers (namely the Lancaster/Stirling/Halifax, B-17 & B-24).

Cant Z.506 B "Heron" - Tri-Motor Floatplane Reconnaissance (Light Bomber) & Torpedo Bomber:


Both are 1/200 scale and are from the Regia Aeronautica Militare series from Italy that features the 1/144 Caproni discussed in the WW1 section. When looking at the Cant Z.506B you need to be careful because there is a near identical 1/144 version from AmerCom which obviously isn't the right scale for the standard WG2 models.

I also picked up a 1/200 model of the Blohm & Voss BV222 V2 "Viking" Flying Boat which I'm sure will have been discussed on here before:

(and is an AmerCom model to just to confuse things - and I assume was originally released by Altaya in France or similar)! All 3 of these models were very good value and cost effective even with shipping to NZ.

Anyway thought I'd ask if anyone has come across any further ready-made models like these for the Italians, and also Russians, etc, who currently don't have any bombers in WG2?

TIA

[Canestri10]

Hello All,

I have been looking around for what is available for ready made 1/200 models of Italian Bombers (i.e. diecast or WoG style models as opposed to metal wargaming models that need finishing & painting) over and above the very good (but unpainted, etc) stuff being done by AIM, etc. My main interest is Italians, especially the SM-79 Sparrow and similar - anyway I stumbled across these that may or may not have been discussed here previously:

Piaggio P.108 B "Bomber" - 4 Engined Heavy Bomber:

The P.108B was a very good Heavy Medium to Heavy Bomber generally comparable to the main Allied Heavy Bombers (namely the Lancaster/Stirling/Halifax, B-17 & B-24).

I would love to pick up one of these myself. Did you get it off ebay? Also let me know how go converting the stands to fit the WoG stands.

Cant Z.506 B "Heron" - Tri-Motor Floatplane Reconnaissance (Light Bomber) & Torpedo Bomber:


Both are 1/200 scale and are from the Regia Aeronautica Militare series from Italy that features the 1/144 Caproni discussed in the WW1 section. When looking at the Cant Z.506B you need to be careful because there is a near identical 1/144 version from AmerCom which obviously isn't the right scale for the standard WG2 models.

Very cool, I wouldn't mind picking one of these up too.

I also picked up a 1/200 model of the Blohm & Voss BV222 V2 "Viking" Flying Boat which I'm sure will have been discussed on here before:

(and is an AmerCom model to just to confuse things - and I assume was originally released by Altaya in France or similar)! All 3 of these models were very good value and cost effective even with shipping to NZ.

I also recently picked one of these up too. I was really hoping to find an H8K2 Emily in 1/200 scale aswell but could only find it in 1/144. Let me know if you find come across one.

Anyway thought I'd ask if anyone has come across any further ready-made models like these for the Italians, and also Russians, etc, who currently don't have any bombers in WG2?

TIA

Will do.

[Warlock]

I've recently bought 1 P108 and 1 Z506 from a english seller on eBay, less expensive than italian one. I remember he had several for any type. No infos on other italian airplanes in 1:200 scale.

[Mycenius]

I would love to pick up one of these myself. Did you get it off ebay? Also let me know how go converting the stands to fit the WoG stands

I've recently bought 1 P108 and 1 Z506 from a english seller on eBay, less expensive than italian one. I remember he had several for any type. No infos on other italian airplanes in 1:200 scale.

I got the 2 x P.108 and the Z.506 (and a Caproni in 1/144) from storekeeper_paradise Piaggio P.108 B - excellent trader (I've dealt with him before) - worked out about NZ$31 per model incl. shipping to NZ from Poland. I did however get his last Cant Z.506 B "Heron" he had in stock. Sure there will be more... (e.g. okcollection_it Z.506 and murotoys2003italia Z.506.

[clipper1801]

Here is a sneak peak to what the Russian Elves are working on, its bit BIG at 1/200" scale but that is nothing new . . .



And I found these photos on the web:



It will definitely have plug in bits to make it manageable . . .

[Mycenius]

Holy Moly!!!

[Mycenius]

Here's the land version!

[Flying Helmut]

That's just ridiculous!

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I would certainly buy that Cant, but often find that sellers in the Antipodes won't ship to England.
Has anyone got a contact in Europe for them?
Rob.

[Dom S]

Rob, there are a few on Ebay scattered around Europe, including one UK seller:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AERONAUTICA-...item43d6707c23

[Warlock]

The link provided by Dom is the seller from I bought my Piaggio and my Cant, less expensive than italians.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Cheers Dom.
Unfortunately I seem to be having an issue with E-Bay this evening. It won't let me pay for anything.
Rob.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Managed to fix it now and snapped up two of the remaining three thanks Dom.
Rob.

[Mycenius]

FWIW My stuff came from Poland - I've dealt with 2 sellers that ship from there repeatedly over the years for 1/72 AFV diecasts and both have been great - it was one of them I got the 4 models above from. FWIW there is also a really good diecast seller in Portugal (Rodrigo) who may be able to source these planes if he does not currently stock them (rodalm1 / Rodalm Model Cars) - he is excellent to deal with (he primarily does Altaya 1/72 stuff from France).

[Mycenius]

ANYWAY...

Back on topic - what other ready made models are out there chaps?

EDIT:

I did stumble on the Hogan Diecast series - mostly civilian airliners, and a bit expensive (usually around US$50 each + Shipping) - but I did pick up two C47/Military versions of the DC-3 Dakota / Skytrain - one is the U.S. colours (Operation Overlord I think) "Argonia", another is one of the Japanese manufactured DC-3's in IJN colours available on EBay (Number "Y-902" with Dark Green & Brown camo). There are at least 3 other IJN variants in the range, Y-901 which is solid dark green with yellow trim on leading wing edges, C-1 which is all silver, and an all-white version with alternate roundals.

For those not familiar with the history: Japanese L2D - license built DC-3's (on wikipedia) - Nakajima built the first ~75 then Shōwa built the remaining 431 (so 506 aircraft in total from 1939 to 1945). Allied codename was "Tabby"! The Japanese also had a similar version of the DC-2 but not sure how many saw service in WW2.

[Mycenius]

That's just ridiculous!

The Plane or the Tank?

[Dom S]

The tank is a fabrication from the early days of the internet - the guy did a nice little website "documenting" it too if memory serves....

PS - Glad that worked out Rob - have fun.

[Flying Helmut]

The Plane or the Tank?

Both! But the plane a little less-so than the tank!

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Thanks Dom.
I have been after one of those for a year.
Rob.

[csadn]

[/URL]

:)

[Mycenius]

The tank is a fabrication from the early days of the internet - the guy did a nice little website "documenting" it too if memory serves....

Yep! It had a great back story! Was almost believable - I know a few people bought into it when I published it in our local Wargaming Club Magazine back about 1996-1997!!

[ttakata73]

Very cool finds.
I did not know of those diecasts.
For WW2 I know Hogan puts out a great B-17G
http://www.flyingmule.com/products/HG-7679

and a pair of Zeros
http://www.flyingmule.com/products/HG-7280

Gulliver has a G4M1 Betty
http://www.flyingmule.com/products/GU-WA22100

They have very tiny details so might be too pricey and delicate for gameplay.

[Mycenius]

Thanks for the additional links Tak! Yes I had found the B-17 and have ordered one to go with my 2 'official' WG2 B-17's although as you say a bit pricey - forget to mention it above with the Japanese DC-3's...

You know I had completely forgotten to check Flying Mule for 1:200 aircraft! Another place I dealt with a lot in the past for 1/72 AFVs and the odd 1/100 Aircraft.

I have looked at the Zero's and they look very nice - although it's not clear if the undercarriage folds up or is easily removable (but they are on the long-term wish list).

That Betty looks pretty nice! Had not seen that previously!

[clipper1801]

So here it is on the way . . . sorry, no room for minis inside, but there is a case for bolt on parasite fighters . . .



And why not do a few TB-3s while the elves are at it?



The TB-6 is too big to do in resin in my shop, but the TB-3's are doable, I experimented with corrugated surfaces, but too fiddly . .



Pass the vodka . . .

[Dom S]

So here it is on the way . . . sorry, no room for minis inside, but there is a case for bolt on parasite fighters . . .

Oh yes, gotta love the composite dive bombers....

[Jager]

So here it is on the way . . . sorry, no room for minis inside, but there is a case for bolt on parasite fighters . . .
Pass the vodka . . .

I wonder if they ever came up with a way to re-attach the parasites after use....non-zeppelins of course.
Karl

[Dom S]

Not that I've come across - the odd thing with the Soviet project is that they weren't even for fighter cover - rather the underwing I16s were intended as dive bombers, the theory being that the mother ship boosted their range, while their dive bombing attacks would deliver the ordnance much more accurately than the heavy bomber could.

[Mau Fox]

Now THIS is the real Flying Circus ...





Mau

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Well Mau, that certainly leaves us under no Ilyushin as to how they achieved that feat.
Rob.

[Mau Fox]

That was good!

[BobP]

The Russians built some really weird things.

[Jager]

Not that I've come across - the odd thing with the Soviet project is that they weren't even for fighter cover - rather the underwing I16s were intended as dive bombers, the theory being that the mother ship boosted their range, while their dive bombing attacks would deliver the ordnance much more accurately than the heavy bomber could.

I checked wiki, and the article implies they did reattach, though how much in practice, who knows:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zveno_project
Karl

[Mycenius]

I checked wiki, and the article implies they did reattach, though how much in practice, who knows:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zveno_project
Karl

Perhaps that only relates to the one slung under the body that docks once the "Mothership" is airborne:

[csadn]

Perhaps that only relates to the one slung under the body that docks once the "Mothership" is airborne:

Correct -- only the I-Z under the fuselage could attach (it had to, as there was no way to take off with it); the others were release-only. Of course, the entire rig was so slow, it proved a WOMBAT; and first-gen air-refueling already existed anyway.

[Mycenius]

...Of course, the entire rig was so slow, it proved a WOMBAT...

[Rabbit 3]

Here's the land version!

My first impression was "How does this thing turn?" then I read the text and noticed a qoute atributed to Stalin.
"it dosn`t need to turn, it will drive straight to Berlin"!
Seems like the guy who originally did this thought of most of the awkward questions in advance and planted replies in the text.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Hi Chaps.
Has anyone got an idea of what the fire arcs for this aircraft should be.
Also any stats for it?
Rob.

[Jager]

Hi Chaps.
Has anyone got an idea of what the fire arcs for this aircraft should be.
Also any stats for it?
Rob.

Give me a couple of days; I'll see what I can find.
Karl

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Cheers Karl.
In the meantime here is a picture of mine which arrived yesterday.





Rob.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Also let me know how go converting the stands to fit the WoG stands.

I don't know if anyone ever answered this question Sam, so here is a shot of the underside of mine with on of the Oberst's large magnetic gimble mounts glued in place.





I just opened up one of the screw holes in the base of the plane with a hand held countersink bit to seat the ball and put a spot of super glue on it. Works a treat.
Rob.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Give me a couple of days; I'll see what I can find.
Karl

Just found this Karl.
Don't know if it's of any help.

(Cant Z.506B Airone "Heron") Type: Five Seat Torpedo Bomber, Reconnaissance Bomber & Rescue Flying Boat Design: Chief Engineer Filippo Zappata of Cantieri Riuniti dell'Adriadtico (CRDA) or Cant Manufacturer: Cantieri Riuniti dell'Adriadtico (CRDA) or Cant Powerplant: (Z.506B) Three 750 hp (559 kW) Alfa Romeo 126 RC.34 9-cylinder air-cooled radial engines driving three blade metal propellers. Performance: Maximum speed 227 mph (365 km/h) at 13,120 ft (4000 m); cruising speed 202 mph (325 km/h); service ceiling 26,245 ft (8000 m). Range: Maximum range 1,705 miles (2745 km) with normal loadout. Weight: Empty 18,298 lbs (8300 kg) with a maximum take-off weight of 27,117 lbs (12300 kg). Dimensions: Span 86 ft 11 1/4 in (26.5 m); length 63 ft 1 3/4 in (19.25 m); height 24 ft 3 1/4 in (7.4 m); wing area 936.49 sq ft (87.0 sq m). Armament: One 7.7 mm (0.303 in) Breda-SAFAT machine-gun in the rear gunner position and a single 12.7 mm (0.50 in) machine-gun in a Breda M.1 turret, plus a 1,764 lbs (800 kg) torpedo or about the same weight in smaller ordnance. Later model aircraft carried two 7.7 mm (0.303 in) Breda-SAFAT machine-guns in waist positions, plus up to 2,645 lbs (1200 kg) of bombs or a single torpedo. Variants: Z.506, Z.506A, Z.506 B Airone, Z.506S Soccorso, Z.506 Landplane, Z.508 (heavy bomber prototype), Z.509 (three civil aircraft). Avionics: None. History: First flight 19 August 1935; (Z.506A) entered production 1936. Operators: Italy (Regia Aeronautica, Aeronautica Cobelligerante del Sud, Aeronautica Nazionale Repubblicana), Germany (Luftwaffe - from an original order of 30 aircraft to Poland). Units: 31° and 35° Stormi Bombardamento Marittimo (Maritime Bombardment Squadrons) at Elmas and at Brindisi respectively. Rob.

[Jager]

OK here's my thoughts:
the maneuver deck is tough since it's in that zone between the actual decks, and new Zoe Brain system of arrow length movement. tougher because we need a bomber base for this one.
So: the maneuver deck is R(Zb), which means: use the R deck (yes, the Fw-190D), with Zoe's system of movement using the arrow length only:
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...-cards-needed)
Hits are 28, deducting 2 for the floats which add weight, but nothing to durability (4 might be better for a 26; this isn't an exact science yet).
Climb is an 8, ceiling a 8 also.
Guns: dorsal turret A/A, 360 level to high with the tail blindspot both front and back (rudder/tailplanes and propellers); ventral gun: A/A, rear arc, low only
Waist guns (when present): A/A, 3:00 to 5:00 and 7:00 to 9:00 level only.

Karl

[csadn]

Has anyone got an idea of what the fire arcs for this aircraft should be.

Fire arcs are fairly obvious.

-- Dorsal turret (12.7mm) is 360-deg. for any targets at higher altitude; any target at same altitude is blocked by tail or cockpit bulge.
-- Ventral rear-firing position (7.7mm) is 60-deg. cone (30 deg. each side of straight aft).
-- Beam positions (7.7mm, used on Serie XII only) were fairly limited, only able to reach about 40 deg. from straight aft, and any target at same alt. was blocked by the tail

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Thanks chaps.
I think that gives me a good starting position for a card.
Rob.

[Mycenius]

Thanks chaps.
I think that gives me a good starting position for a card.
Rob.

Hi Rob - keen to hear what you come up with - as I have 2 of these would be keen to see a projected card. Maybe someone very kind (and capable) can make us an official card with the graphics??!

[Flying Officer Kyte]

This will probably have to wait until after Hammerhead at the weekend John, but I will have a look at it next week maybe. I am not yet a competent card designer, so it will take weeks rather than days to complete.
Rob.

[Mycenius]

This will probably have to wait until after Hammerhead at the weekend John, but I will have a look at it next week maybe. I am not yet a competent card designer, so it will take weeks rather than days to complete.
Rob.

Hey Rob - no panic - not a rush - mine are both still in transit anyway... Stats first anyway, right?

[Naharaht]

I have bought a Cant Z.506B and a Piaggio P.100B from two different English sellers on eBay.

Can anyone please tell me what the other stalk projecting forward from the dorsal turret on the Cant is? It is not a machine gun. Is it some form of stabilizer because the machine gun was offset to the left?

[Dom S]

Yes, simply a counter for the machine gun barrel (although not because of an offset to the MG, rather simply to counterbalance aerodynamic drag against the MG's barrel, for smoother traverse - otherwise the airflow pushing against the barrel makes it harder to traverse as the alignment gets further from fore-and-aft. On powered turrets they tend not to be worth the bother, but for a hand-cranked turret they were a useful aid in tracking targets smoothly.)

You can see them on a few Italian aircraft (Cant Z.1007 and late model SM.81s spring to mind) as several Italian turrets were quite finely balanced, so had a counter designed in. Not from a Z.506, but the best image I can find of the design idea:

http://www.alieuomini.it/files/antep...delta,2736.jpg

[Edit] I should've thought to Google for the Italian - there are a bunch of pictures to be found that way:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=la...ed=0CAcQ_AUoAg

[Flying Officer Kyte]

The clue was in the aircraft name Dave.

But thanks to Dom for giving us the sensible answer.
Rob.