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Thread: The Saga continues

  1. #1

    Default The Saga continues

    Hi Guys, I've Just received the feed back from the "Metropolitan Police" re the loss of my cards and tokens, After their investigation, they report they have no suspects or leads in my case, So unless I can come up with more information (EG the name of the thief/ and video proof) thats it, my case is closed, Wonderful !!!!!!! It seems crime does pay

  2. #2

  3. #3

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    Brutal. Not a pleasant resolution.

  4. #4

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    Hi,
    Just seen your postings about your theft and a couple of questions and suggestions, that may help you.

    1. Was the guy running the club able to give you a list of members that were at the club at the time. He would need to know for fire safety reasons, as if there had been a fire he would have to produce a list of people who were in the building to any fire unit that attended plus he would have to do a roll call at the fire assembly point to ensure that all people had vacated the premises.
    2. Are your planes uniquely identifiable?
    3. If he has the list of people pass that onto the police, as they should, in theory, if they are doing their duty, speak to each person that was at the scene at the time of the incident.
    4. Did you notice, at all during your time there anybody showing a particular interest in your stuff? Or was hanging around near your stuff as you packed up? If so did you mention this to the police, even a basic description of anybody doing that would help them.
    5. What in total was the monetary value of your loss as if it is a significant loss, then the theft is not some pokemon card issue and the police should treat that more seriously.
    6. However, without any names to follow up on and the items stolen not uniquely identifiable in comparison to other similar items the police are a bit stonewalled. Plus, it does rather sound like an opportunist theft which is very much harder to detect.
    7. Have you considered claiming off your home insurance? I would as you might be able get something back from them.
    8. If you are going to claim off the insurance did you get a crime reference number from the police, as the insurance company requires that to process any claim.
    A friend of mine at Reveille had a quantity of stuff stolen, which was valued at £150 the club secretary accepted that they were partially responsible and paid him £100. Can you try pressurising the club secretary for some compensation?
    Hope that this may in some small way help you.

    Nigel

  5. #5

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    Watch eBay and such like in case he tries to off load them too. The club should of have insurance to cover this. Try them to cough up some thing.

    Nasty business all round.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  6. #6

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    Sorry to hear the outcome was bad Drew.
    The advice given here is certainly worth following up.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  7. #7

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    "Could always whistle up a pathfinder squadron of Lancs and level the place" (Courtesy of Where Eagles Dare).

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Sorry to hear the outcome was bad Drew.
    The advice given here is certainly worth following up.
    Rob.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  8. #8

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    You have my sympathies, Drew.

  9. #9

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    What a bunch of bastards all round. Hope this doesn't deter you from enjoying the game. Get yourself along to some of the shows, meets the guys and appreciate what this is REALLY all about.
    Chin up mate...

  10. #10

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    Name and Shame!

    Let us know which group this is, so we can warn off any other poor unsuspecting blighters!

  11. #11

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    Sorry you've had such a bad experience Drew. It does seem that our hobby attracts a (very) few rotten apples - hopefully some of the advice here will help though.

  12. #12

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    I would love to "name and shame" But from my first contact with "Mr X" the club organiser, he has stated that if I was to bring his club into disrepute, he would take action, It's a "no win situation", My home insurance cover, requires proof of purchase, Fat chance of that! The police want evidence, and as far as I can see, they have one statement from "Mr X" which was, A) NOT VERY HELPFUL. B) NOT VERY SUPPORTIVE. or C) NOT VERY CONSTRUCTIVE. answers on a postcard please, sometimes it's best to give up, But on the bright side I have the support of you guys, A big thanks to all my co pilots.

  13. #13

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    Andy I'll post those spare damage deck's and counter's next week for you, do you need anything else? if you do drop me a pm mate.

  14. #14

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    I think that you should consult some legal professional, and ask them for advice before you name and shame this wargames club, but I do think that he's trying to bully you out of making a fuss, which is a shame as I suspect that the majority of those going there aren't to blame, but just one chancer who took the oppertunity to steal from you.

  15. #15

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    Remember Drew, I also have a few spare bits and bobs floating around.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by bogue View Post
    Hi,
    Just seen your postings about your theft and a couple of questions and suggestions, that may help you.

    1. Was the guy running the club able to give you a list of members that were at the club at the time. He would need to know for fire safety reasons, as if there had been a fire he would have to produce a list of people who were in the building to any fire unit that attended plus he would have to do a roll call at the fire assembly point to ensure that all people had vacated the premises.
    2. Are your planes uniquely identifiable?
    3. If he has the list of people pass that onto the police, as they should, in theory, if they are doing their duty, speak to each person that was at the scene at the time of the incident.
    4. Did you notice, at all during your time there anybody showing a particular interest in your stuff? Or was hanging around near your stuff as you packed up? If so did you mention this to the police, even a basic description of anybody doing that would help them.
    5. What in total was the monetary value of your loss as if it is a significant loss, then the theft is not some pokemon card issue and the police should treat that more seriously.
    6. However, without any names to follow up on and the items stolen not uniquely identifiable in comparison to other similar items the police are a bit stonewalled. Plus, it does rather sound like an opportunist theft which is very much harder to detect.
    7. Have you considered claiming off your home insurance? I would as you might be able get something back from them.
    8. If you are going to claim off the insurance did you get a crime reference number from the police, as the insurance company requires that to process any claim.
    A friend of mine at Reveille had a quantity of stuff stolen, which was valued at £150 the club secretary accepted that they were partially responsible and paid him £100. Can you try pressurising the club secretary for some compensation?
    Hope that this may in some small way help you.

    Nigel
    Thanks Nigel,

    Some good advice, All my stuff is standard, I feel out gunned by the club secretary, I can't talk to anyone in the club as I have been barred, for bringing his club into disrepute with the police etc. it's game over

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by andron234 View Post
    ...I feel out gunned by the club secretary, I can't talk to anyone in the club as I have been barred, for bringing his club into disrepute with the police etc. it's game over...
    Bah. One would think the thief managed that, and not the victim...

  18. #18

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    Methinks Mr. Club Secretary doth protesteth too much, and harbors thieves in his midst... whatever happened to "I will not lie, cheat or steal, nor TOLERATE THOSE WHO DO"?

    Either he did it, or he's covering for whoever did, possibly for a cut. And if he happens to see this: "Bring it, punk! This server and I are under American law, not British, where we still have the right to call a crooked buttnugget exactly what they are."

  19. #19

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    Drew.
    The club may threaten action against you, but can not do so if you simply state the facts as they are.
    That you had your games materials stolen from club ............insert name, and that the police have been informed and given you a crime number. This is the truth as it happened, and you are not obliged to keep quiet about it. It is simply stating a fact.
    The local Press might even be interested in this matter.
    Rob.
    Last edited by Flying Officer Kyte; 02-01-2015 at 14:25.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  20. #20

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    I've run any number of clubs and societies.

    If there had been something stolen from one of them, I would have been helping the police and apologising to the victim; which I think would be the response of any right-thinking human being.

    Which leads me to think there is something in the wrong headed behaviour in banning you for speaking to the police.
    It is possible he is simply in denial; he does not believe anyone in the club is capable of the theft, in which case he thinks you, a new comer to the club, are trying it on in some way.

    But more likely, he feels responsible, possibly because he knows who the thief is; but just feeling guilty as the organiser is also a natural, if illogical, reaction.
    Either way, blaming you for you own misfortune is perverse.

    I say name and shame; stick to the facts.
    Deformation is notoriously difficult to pursue legally; he won't get anywhere with that.

  21. #21

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    And in most places, isn't Truth a valid defense against defamation, slander, libel etc.?

  22. #22

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    Surely there's no "shaming" in simply naming the club.

    And I'm sure other wargamers would have a natural interest in knowing whicb clubs to avoid. I have a few wargaming friends in Essex andi know they would be happy to avoid a club where their kit might be at risk

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    And in most places, isn't Truth a valid defense against defamation, slander, libel etc.?
    Absolutely. At least, that's how it works in the U.S. Additionally, if I understand it correctly, their must be malice on the part of the offender (knowing statements were false, saying/printing them anyways with the intent of causing harm).

  24. #24

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    I'm looking for other clubs in the London/S.E. area for a friend of mine.

    I don't want to send him to a den of thieves.

  25. #25

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    Drew I would name the club and the facts and put it in a format that is asking for any information that could lead to your stuff being returned.

    ie

    On such and such a day I was packing my stuff after visiting club such and such. As I was packing stuff in my car some stuff, listed here, that was left inside the club went missing. Would anyone know who took the stuff or have information about missing stuff please contact myself or inform the police, anonymously, with any relevant information. etc etc.

    I'm sure you could tart it up better than I. But the gist is there. It is factual to the point and you're only asking for assistance not bringing the club into disrepute only the perpetrator of the crime.

    Neil
    See you on the Dark Side......

  26. #26

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    closed club, limited number of suspects..........that would seem to me to be truely pathetic police work on their part.

  27. #27

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    You could also ask for a copy of the clubs insurance policy. You may be covered but you would have to read it. Do you know anyone at the club who would help you?
    See you on the Dark Side......

  28. #28

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    Alas No, I was new to the club, It was only my second visit, also he has my details/ phone number which puts me a great disadvantage, I don't want to get involved in any defamation, slander/ libel case, The club Secretary (Mr X) has phoned me after the visit from the Police, and to say his was unhappy would be an under statement, I'm going to close the book on this one, Thanks for all the support

  29. #29

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    If he's not gonna help you get your stuff back he has no business contacting you... How many potential torts and misdemeanors based on Harassment themes could that bring? Not to mention Obstruction of Justice, Witness Intimidation...

    If you can't figure out one guy in say 2-3 dozen who's the scumbag... sodding sorry excuse for police there.

  30. #30

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    All I can say is do not take the **** from the club shirt front them and bring it on!

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by andron234 View Post
    I don't want to get involved in any defamation, slander/ libel case
    That is nonsense. As I said libel and slander are notoriously difficult and expensive to pursue and prosecute.
    It's an idle threat. If it were me I'd be inclined to watch him waste his money on solicitors letters. It won't go any further.

    But I understand how these things can be upsetting and that you just feel "least said, soonest mended".

  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by QB Fox View Post
    That is nonsense. As I said libel and slander are notoriously difficult and expensive to pursue and prosecute.
    It's an idle threat. If it were me I'd be inclined to watch him waste his money on solicitors letters. It won't go any further.

    But I understand how these things can be upsetting and that you just feel "least said, soonest mended".
    For one, this, and for two, as previously stated if you assert the Truth Defense and back it up, then you have a valid case for counter-suit.

    NEVER give in to a threat, it only encourages the bastards to continue their wicked ways.

  33. #33

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    While I recognise the drift of what your saying, DB, I think some of your terms and references are specifically American law.

    And I am completely with your way thinking, but neither of us has to put with the stress of it all.

  34. #34

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    That is another part of the problem "STRESS", to tell the truth I'm too old for this, It boils down to my word with no proof from a new member with no friends in the club, who ends up calling in the police, Not a great way to make friends, Sometimes its best to walk away from a gun fight when you've brought a knife, Two members have sent me some spare cards and tokens, so I have some of my planes in the air again, So I'm not grounded.

  35. #35

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    And you still have not told me what you are still short of Drew.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    And you still have not told me what you are still short of Drew.
    Rob.
    Nor me - I have spare box sets, plus some booster cards if you need any.

  37. #37

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    I have an avenue to pursue but it will have to wait until Wednesday night. Please PM me with your phone number so I can pass on the info I get.

    Neil

    PS: It has nothing to do with the club in question just seeking some professional advice, it may come to nothing but as my Mam said 'shy bairns get nowt'.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  38. #38

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    Drew did you lose any WoG planes? IF so me PM me with what you lost and and will look in my surplus box and see if I have any of them? which IF I have I will give them to you. I understand your point about the "stress" issue and I suffer from that as well!

  39. #39

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    Hello Alastair thats a BIG NO, The first box I took out to the car was my plane box "thank God" I was outside for about seven minutes and on my return my second box had "walked" with all my cards inside, But the good news is that, Rob the (U K wing commander) and some of the other Aerodrome membership have hit their "surplus box" and have got me back in the air, So all that remains is to say a big thank you to the Aerodrome membership.

  40. #40

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    Whilst I have every sympathy with you Drew I wonder if you have either visited the Citizens Advice Bureau, or your solicitor for advice, especially regarding the threats from Mr X ? You are entitled to half an hours free advice from a solicitor, you don't have to cross the threshold of their premises you can just phone one and ask their advice. I've done this over internet scams in the past. I'm fortunate I have free legal advice through my insurance as well, something worth checking your policy for although in my case it's a business policy.
    At the end of the day the guy running this club sounds a proper scumbag, if it was me I'd be plastering the club's name all over the internet and flush him out of cover.

  41. #41

    Default know when it's over

    Quote Originally Posted by Spring-Chicken View Post
    Whilst I have every sympathy with you Drew I wonder if you have either visited the Citizens Advice Bureau, or your solicitor for advice, especially regarding the threats from Mr X ? You are entitled to half an hours free advice from a solicitor, you don't have to cross the threshold of their premises you can just phone one and ask their advice. I've done this over internet scams in the past. I'm fortunate I have free legal advice through my insurance as well, something worth checking your policy for although in my case it's a business policy.
    At the end of the day the guy running this club sounds a proper scumbag, if it was me I'd be plastering the club's name all over the internet and flush him out of cover.
    First let me tackle my insurance policy, It has a Five Hundred excess so that's a non starter, Next I did visit the Citizens Advice Bureau in Borehamwood their advice was to see a solicitor, (This after the Police took it as almost a joke), To see a solicitor costs money, more than I can afford, I live off a pension now due to ill health, so money is in short supply, I would love to nail Mr X's head to the floor, But I'm passed my "sell by date" and can't do a thing to "Help" him see my point of view, The visit from the Police got his "Back up" That's when he phoned me on my mobile, He pointed out he had my address, and I didn't have his, and he didn't want to see the police in his club again! What did I lose? a box of tokens & cards, The whole reason I retired was to remove myself from stress, That's why I play games, Dodging a brick going through my window isn't a game I want to play, Yes he's a proper scumbag, he proved that, when the police told me the door entry video failed to record that night, I have no proof, But I do have about twenty suspects, with no friends in the club im stuck, Thank you for your views in the matter, but for me I've got to "know when it's over"
    Last edited by andron234; 02-12-2015 at 03:41.

  42. #42

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    Well Drew I am glad your losses have been made up. I understand (and I am sure others do) for your decision not to to persue the matter any further. At least through the generousity of other forum member you have got back what you lost. That's the reason I like this forum.

  43. #43

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    Thank you Doug, To finish I would like to say a BIG thank you to all the guys who have sent me loads of supportive PM's, And a BIGGER thank you to the members who have sent me, cards and tokens, I would fly with you guys anytime. Best regards Drew

  44. #44

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    Well Drew I would say, IMHO, that it isn't 1 scumbag but 20 scumbags who are all complicit in the theft.

    Please PM me if your still short and I'll check my spares and see what I can do for you.

    Neil
    See you on the Dark Side......

  45. #45

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    Due to my girl, I spend about three months in London every year. If you want to PM me, Drew, I think that members of the Italian wing of this forum and me could check our spare boxes and help you flight again.



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