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Thread: 'FatalFlaw' Pilot from the American Volunteer Group Reporting for Duty!

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    Default 'FatalFlaw' Pilot from the American Volunteer Group Reporting for Duty!

    Hi All

    Though I am a new member here, I have visited many times in the past, in my mission to bring more Inter-War Aircraft to the fore.

    I truly enjoy both periods currently offered by WoG, but also love to game the SCW, Japanese-Russo and the early AVG in China.

    I have painted and sold hundreds of aircraft in 1/100 and 1/200 scales. I have obtained official Aircraft and modified them but also I obtain models from Shapeways as well as David Schmid over at AIM.

    On that note, I am currently(off and on as completed) offering many aircraft on eBay and am working on model modifications so that AIM may offer a better SCW list of offerings. I am very excited about the latter, of course. Also, I am working on a line of Patrol Boats in both 1/100 and 1/200 scales for use with WoG and Axis& Allies Air Combat scenarios. I love combining navy and air whenever possible!

    I look forward to flying more missions and to adding many offerings in the modelling section here.

    Good Luck And Good Hunting!

    *Salute*

    FatalFlaw

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    Thanks BR!

    It feels good to finally join!

    FF

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    Welcome Scott, from Middlesex in the U.K.

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    Greetings Scott. Welcome to the Aerodrome.

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    On behalf of the pilots based over the pond here in Dear old Blighty, welcome to the Drome Scott.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

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    Welcome Scott! I look forward to seeing your custom models!

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    A warm welcome from Poland, Scott I am really interested in your 1/100 models. Let's stay in touch. PM me if you have any such models to offer
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

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    welcome to the drome scott!!!!!

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    matt56's Avatar May you forever fly in blue skies.
    Major

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    Name
    Matt
    Location
    Ohio
    Sorties Flown
    4,107
    Join Date
    Sep 2014

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    Congrats on establishing your "official residency" after such long vacationing, Scott! It's a great place to be (as I'm sure you already know).

    All the best,
    Matt

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    Welcome to the Drome from Cape Cod.

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    Thumbs up

    G'day Scott & welcome to the 'drome on behalf of the pilots who fly in NSW down in Australia.
    Glad you have officially signed on for Duty & look forward to hearing of your future modelling efforts.

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    Thank you all for the warm welcomes!

    I will look around and find the best places for me to post and to inform folks about my current eBay listings, etc.

    This week there will be 1/100 scale SCW Cr.32's, as well as 1/200 scale He.51's, Ki.27 Nates, Sm.79 bombers and F4F Wildcats/Martlets...hehe

    *Salute*

    FF
    Last edited by FatalFlaw; 01-18-2015 at 19:55. Reason: misspelling simple words...lol

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    Scott,
    Welcome from the far side of the continent, Vancouver Island.

    You could post here: Sale Trade Wanted Classifieds

    It sounds like you are creating more work for me.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

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    Welcome to you Scott, from Bristol UK

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    Hi Scott, welcome from England.
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

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    Howdy and welcome to the 'Drome, Scott.

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    Welcome to the Aerodrome, Scott, from here near Norwich in the United Kingdom. Your painting skill will be a valued addition.

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    Welcome to the Aerodrome, Scott.

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    Hi Scott - welcome from here in the UK

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    Welcome Scott! One quick thing though; although the AVG was started and formed in the months before the U.S. officially became a participant in WW2; its first battle against the Japanese occurred after Pearl Harbor; On December 20th, 1941. You probably already know that but I've noticed that over the years a lot of people don't know this; they think the P-40s were fighting the Oscars and Nates BEFORE Pearl Harbor. I think a lot of this is due to the true but somewhat misleading statement that "The AVG was formed to fight the Japanese in China before the U.S. entered the war"; which is frequently thrown out there when talking about the AVG; without a follow up saying that the actual fights started AFTER December 7th.

    That aside; I'd LOVE to see some AARs of P-40s fighting Oscars and/or Nates and/or Sally's, etc. in the skies over Burma!

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    Max - I did not know that. Dang, the devil is in the details isn't it?

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    Welcome mate! Browse around and enjoy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by max_vale View Post
    Welcome Scott! One quick thing though; although the AVG was started and formed in the months before the U.S. officially became a participant in WW2; its first battle against the Japanese occurred after Pearl Harbor; On December 20th, 1941. You probably already know that but I've noticed that over the years a lot of people don't know this; they think the P-40s were fighting the Oscars and Nates BEFORE Pearl Harbor. I think a lot of this is due to the true but somewhat misleading statement that "The AVG was formed to fight the Japanese in China before the U.S. entered the war"; which is frequently thrown out there when talking about the AVG; without a follow up saying that the actual fights started AFTER December 7th.

    That aside; I'd LOVE to see some AARs of P-40s fighting Oscars and/or Nates and/or Sally's, etc. in the skies over Burma!
    Max!

    While the above is true, it should also be noted that Americans and others were already engaging and shooting down Japanese Planes before the AVG became official. I believe Baumler shot down a Ki-27 before Pearl Harbor, but I may be mistaken. However, it is clear that Chennault was engaging in more than just observation and scouting missions in his Curtiss H-75 Hawk.

    Chennault had written a book on the subject, The Role of Defensive Pursuit, but the Army would not listen to his ideas. Now in China he had a chance to test them in actual combat, and there is reason to believe that Chennault himself shot down at least thirty Japanese planes before the AVG arrived.
    Upon the outbreak of the Second Sino-Japanese War that August, Chennault became Chiang Kai-shek's chief air adviser, training Chinese Air Force pilots as well as sometimes flying scouting missions in an export Curtiss H-75 fighter. His duties also included organizing the "International Squadron" of mercenary pilots.
    When hostilities erupted with Japan in August, Chennault was propelled into action. Combining the roles of Chief Air Advisor, pilot trainer and flying in operational sorties, Chennault was suddenly one of the most highly valued operators in the country. He was also charged with setting up and leading a squadron of foreign mercenary pilots. With increasing pressure on Chinese forces and a series of lightning victories won by the Japanese, Chennault was sent back to the United States in 1940 as part of a small team tasked with raising financial and logistical support for China.


    While it is apparent that "Foreign Mercenaries" were already combatting the Japanese in the Air, it has proven difficult for me to find real kill numbers before the advent of the AVG as we know it. I will do more research and continue to build and finish planes for this interesting period of the war. Rest assured that there will be some fun and colorful, if not interesting AAR's in our future.

    Thanks to all who have welcomed me and elicited more Air Combat Conversations.


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    FF

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    Hey there Scott!

    I anxiously await any and all AARs about Flying Tigers vs. Oscars/Nates/etc.!

    I will say that I have never read anywhere about Chennault shooting down any planes; for it to be in the realm of 30 or more is pretty darn unbelievable to me. Chennault was quite an effective leader and certainly knew how to maximize his assets; but he was also quite touchy and while I'm sure he may have made some observation flights in a H75 Hawk before the AVG was fully assembled and MAY have even fired a couple of times at enemy aircraft; I find it EXTREMELY unlikely he shot very many planes down; but that just might be ol' skeptical me!

    I'm sure there were probably some mercenary types flying and fighting in China before Dec. 1941; but Baumler (who flew in the Spanish Civil war; along with Tinker and a few other American pilots) didn't get to China and the AVG until May/June of '42. He WAS there for the last days of the original AVG (which pretty much came to an end in early July of '42); and became a major part of the follow on 23rd in China under Chennault and "Tex" Hill, etc.

    Anyway, I just wanted to make the quick point that the long-held myth of the AVG fighting the Japanese before Pearl Harbor IS and ISN'T True......kinda like if you read 'Shattered Sword' the myth of the Devastator Torpedo Bombers drawing the CAP down at Midway is what allowed the Dive Bombers to do their damage. In reality, the torpedo bomber attack ended about an hour before the Dive Bombers arrived....it was poor CAP procedures that led to an ineffective 'umbrella' being in position to do anything about the SBDs strike.

    But I digress....the important things are that the Flying Tigers (and the Carrier Battle at Midway for that matter!) is a wonderful story and worth playing out in awesome game form!

    (The Air War in WW2 is one of my passions.....does it show much? )

  30. #30

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    Hi Max,

    I am beginning to think this thread may belong somewhere else...

    I think your skepticism is warranted. It is obvious to me that I need to read more books specifically on C. L. Chennault's career, to include re-reading of his biography. Just reading what I can find on-line the numbers of kills for him range from 0, to 6, to as many as 30!...lol (I also now find this number to be dubious)

    I am also passionate for WWII Aviation History, as well as for these fascinating "Inter-War" Periods.

    Born on Patrick AFB, Grandson to Mary Hull King (personnel director for NASA for 30 some years), Great Nephew to Chuck Yeager, through marriage, and serving in the 25th ID in Hawaii, I have developed a keen interest in The War in The Pacific. Considering my roots and connections to NASA, Pilots/Astronauts, and the US Air Force, I always assumed that I would serve in aviation in some capacity. Ironically, I became an Anti-Tank Expert/Instructor in the 25th and jumped out of more helicopters than I can count. This is made all the more ironic, because my Grandfather was a Tank Instructor at Fort Knox, after he served in the Navy on the USS Wisconsin.

    Anyway, I look forward to more discussions with knowledgeable folks, like yourself, and to reporting on many air combats here, or more precisely, in the proper forums...hehe



    FF

  31. #31

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    I am inclined to agree with you Scott. This discussion would be far better in the WW2 historical Forum.
    Maybe you could PM Eric and ask him to move these last three posts to a new thread.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

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