WGS: A companion for the Universal Solo Diceless Chart

[RiotInferno]

All,
I finally sat down with my associate, and it will be an android app to start. However, we are looking at doing this as a Maneuver Deck specific app. Perhaps even a Pilot Skill choice, too?

With that, I will need a maneuver deck guide, and perhaps the option of special decks (EG: J*). The chart by Eric [7eat51] might work, but I'd have to do some graphics, and it doesn't include the modified decks (WGS Aircraft and Maneuver Deck Matrix). Suggestions?

Any chance this would work on a Blackberry?

I have zero experience with Blackberry.
Thanks for picking up the slack on the apps, I haven't had the time available to work on mine at all, recently. I still hope to get it finished sometime this spring.

[Yenwing]

All,
I finally sat down with my associate, and it will be an android app to start. However, we are looking at doing this as a Maneuver Deck specific app. Perhaps even a Pilot Skill choice, too?

With that, I will need a maneuver deck guide, and perhaps the option of special decks (EG: J*). The chart by Eric [7eat51] might work, but I'd have to do some graphics, and it doesn't include the modified decks (WGS Aircraft and Maneuver Deck Matrix). Suggestions?

Any chance this would work on a Blackberry?

I'm pretty new to WGS, but does it need to be specific to maneuver deck? My understanding is the chart tells you to do specific moves and then you use the corresponding card and that's where the decks come into play. I think the chart covers all the possible moves (like do 90 if the deck has 90, otherwise; do 60 (or whatever)). Like I said, I'm new and I may be missing something. Great work on this. I use it all the time, since I'm a loser with no WGS friends

[OldGuy59]

OK,
By inputting a specific maneuver deck in the App, it just skips the "player choice" thing (EG: you are only offered moves your particular deck allows you to do. If 90 degree turns, or wide side slips are possible, they will show up. If not, you'll never see them.)

In discussing the different turn options in the original thread, I ran off on a tangent. Check out this idea gone wild:

Pilot skill will be hard to implement in the app. Hmmm...

Unless you want a "Plane" sequencer, to help you keep track of which plane moves when, with the app picking moves when AI pilots come up? I could really use that, with, or without, AI pilots. I get soo confused running Con Demo Games, keeping track of who shot when, AA, coaching, fire, wounded pilots. etc...

This might be worth looking at! I need that.

So, input the number of planes, with a Human/AI selection (Make it flexible for spawns, if you want to give a plane to a human, or if the player leaves - to the AI). Put a small adhesive dot with a number on the applicable plane's stand to keep track.
Put in Maneuver Deck for planes.
Put in the pilot skill (have a button for "Wounded", that can be input any turn. See below, implement it there, instead).
Start game sequence button.
App cycles through each plane's turn sequence, giving "Area/Distance/Engage" for the AI plane(s) as appropriate.
End of all plane moves, before planning, allow for "Wounded", "Shot Down/Flamed out" ("Left Table"?), "Spawn"/Change "Human/AI" selection.

Ooh! Nice, perhaps? Comments or suggestions?

PS: Output file for AAR? Email or save onto USB/SD card?

PPS: AA sequencer? Not sure where to input this, and how to place it in the sequence, so HELP!
Input at the beginning, if AA will be playing.
At the end of turn screen, when choosing other Pilot/Plane changes, choose "AA SHOOT"
Plot AA shots on the table.
Sequencer tells you when the shots go off at the appropriate time! End of the next maneuver phase (two moves later)?

With this, AA only shows up when you select that you are shooting. It would be a button on a screen.
Maybe just put the button on the end of turn screen, and it is always there, just in case.


PPPS: Somebody, help rein in the idea hamster!

So, I don't know if this will happen, but...

[RiotInferno]

Those are all pretty good ideas.
Tracking especially seems like it'd be useful, especially at the app level.
"That would require a bit of a data management under-the-hood, but also seems do-able.

[tikkifriend]

OK,
By inputting a specific maneuver deck in the App, it just skips the "player choice" thing (EG: you are only offered moves your particular deck allows you to do. If 90 degree turns, or wide side slips are possible, they will show up. If not, you'll never see them.)

In discussing the different turn options in the original thread, I ran off on a tangent. Check out this idea gone wild:

Pilot skill will be hard to implement in the app. Hmmm...

Unless you want a "Plane" sequencer, to help you keep track of which plane moves when, with the app picking moves when AI pilots come up? I could really use that, with, or without, AI pilots. I get soo confused running Con Demo Games, keeping track of who shot when, AA, coaching, fire, wounded pilots. etc...

This might be worth looking at! I need that.

So, input the number of planes, with a Human/AI selection (Make it flexible for spawns, if you want to give a plane to a human, or if the player leaves - to the AI). Put a small adhesive dot with a number on the applicable plane's stand to keep track.
Put in Maneuver Deck for planes.
Put in the pilot skill (have a button for "Wounded", that can be input any turn. See below, implement it there, instead).
Start game sequence button.
App cycles through each plane's turn sequence, giving "Area/Distance/Engage" for the AI plane(s) as appropriate.
End of all plane moves, before planning, allow for "Wounded", "Shot Down/Flamed out" ("Left Table"?), "Spawn"/Change "Human/AI" selection.

Ooh! Nice, perhaps? Comments or suggestions?

PS: Output file for AAR? Email or save onto USB/SD card?

PPS: AA sequencer? Not sure where to input this, and how to place it in the sequence, so HELP!
Input at the beginning, if AA will be playing.
At the end of turn screen, when choosing other Pilot/Plane changes, choose "AA SHOOT"
Plot AA shots on the table.
Sequencer tells you when the shots go off at the appropriate time! End of the next maneuver phase (two moves later)?

With this, AA only shows up when you select that you are shooting. It would be a button on a screen.
Maybe just put the button on the end of turn screen, and it is always there, just in case.


PPPS: Somebody, help rein in the idea hamster!

So, I don't know if this will happen, but...

Time for a roll in the snow and a rub down with a copy of Aviators Weekly Mike

These projects can take you over but for the good of the Drome keep up the great pioneering work.

[OldGuy59]

I'm gonna have to settle for a cold shower, Paul.

Even the Ski Resorts in BC are closed due to a lack of snow this year.

Gack! I clicked on the archive of Aviation Week, and came up with this!

http://aviationweek.com/100

[tikkifriend]

A fine choice of magazine Mike

[OldGuy59]

Went through a game today to teach my associate how WGS plays, and how we want the turn sequence to work. This was a challenge, cause I haven't really played WGS much. And when you get wounded pilots, things take a real twist. The following is what we came up with:

1.Start Game:
Select number of planes (we picked 4)
Select maneuver deck (1,2 A; 3 B; 4 I)
Select Human/AI (1, 2 Human; 3, 4 AI)
Select Skill Level (not used, and may not put this in. Yet)
2. Start Sequence:
Plane 1 plans (this is just an indicator, with the player just clicking or tapping the screen to proceed)
Plane 2 plans (player clicks or taps to proceed)
Plane 1 moves (player clicks or taps to proceed)
Plane 2 moves (player clicks or taps to proceed)
Plane 3 [Sector] [Distance] [Engage] (plan and move)
Plane 4 [Sector] [Distance] [Engage] (plan and move)
3. Shoot
All planes resolve shooting.
[AA Plan] place AA indicator on table for future fire (This would be an extra button selection, used if needed. Player records what AA is firing)
[Proceed] (player clicks or taps to proceed)
1. Restart:
Select number of planes (Indicate if any removed. This could be because it was shot down, left the table, or burnt up)
Select maneuver deck (This shouldn't change, but you could)
Select Human/AI (If anyone drops out of the game, or someone starts playing an AI plane)
Select Skill Level (Plane 2 - Pilot Wounded)
Select End Game (if you have to stop, or want to stop)
2. Continue Sequence:
Plane 2 plans (player clicks or taps to proceed)
Plane 2 moves (player clicks or taps to proceed)
Plane 2 plans (player clicks or taps to proceed)
Plane 1 plans (player clicks or taps to proceed)
Plane 1 moves (player clicks or taps to proceed)
Plane 3 [Sector] [Distance] [Engage] (plan and move)
Plane 4 [Sector] [Distance] [Engage] (plan and move)
3. Shoot
All planes resolve shooting.
[AA Plan] (nothing planned this turn)
[Proceed]
1. Restart:
Select number of planes (Indicate if any removed. This could be because it was shot down, left the table, or burnt up)
Select maneuver deck (This shouldn't change, but you could)
Select Human/AI (If anyone drops out of the game, or someone starts playing an AI plane)
Select Skill Level (Plane 4 - Pilot Wounded)
Select End Game (if you have to stop, or want to stop)
2. Continue Sequence:
Plane 2 moves
Plane 2 plans
Plane 4 [Sector] [Distance] [Engage] (plan and move)
Plane 1 plans
Plane 1 moves
Plane 3 [Sector] [Distance] [Engage] (plan and move)
3. Shoot
All planes resolve shooting.
[AA Hits] (This is an indicator to resolve the previously planned AA shots)
[AA Plan] (nothing planned)
[Proceed]
1. Restart:
Select number of planes (Indicate if any removed. This could be because it was shot down, left the table, or burnt up)
Select maneuver deck (This shouldn't change, but you could)
Select Human/AI (If anyone drops out of the game, or someone starts playing an AI plane)
Select Skill Level (No change to pilots)
Select End Game (if you have to stop, or want to stop)
2. Continue Sequence:
Plane 2 moves
Plane 2 plans
Plane 4 [Sector] [Distance] [Engage] (plan and move)
Plane 1 plans
Plane 1 moves
Plane 3 [Sector] [Distance] [Engage] (plan and move)
3. Shoot
All planes resolve shooting.
[AA Plan] (nothing planned)
[Proceed]
1. Restart:
Select number of planes (Remove Plane 4. Spawn Plane 5)
Select maneuver deck (Plane 5 I deck)
Select Human/AI (Plane 5 AI)
Select Skill Level (No change to pilots)
Select End Game (if you have to stop, or want to stop)
2. Continue Sequence:
Plane 2 moves
Plane 2 plans
Plane 1 plans
Plane 1 moves
Plane 3 [Sector] [Distance] [Engage] (plan and move)
Plane 5 [Sector] [Distance] [Engage] (plan and move)
3. Shoot
All planes resolve shooting.
[AA Plan] (nothing planned)
[Proceed]
1. Restart:
Keep going...

I need some feedback to indicate if this is good, or needs corrections.
I have used Eric's [7eat51] WGS Aircraft and Maneuver Deck Matrix to start a database of cards to select from for moves. As the initial chart didn't have any 30 or 45 degree turns, this was fudged to indicate a turn, either short or long (isn't this speed? or what?)

So, I need help. Please. Contributions are solicited.

[OldGuy59]

Guys?

Is there no-one out there that can tell me I'm on the right track? I'm kind of out on a limb with this. Producing an app that is broken from the start is a waste of everyone's time, especially for a colleage that is doing me, and the Forum, a really big favor.

It would be nice to get a confirmation that this is good to go, or needs to be fixed. Please give me some feedback.

[Warhawk]

Haven't been following this thread lately Mike, been busy with work. I'll try to give it a go at some point and offer some feedback. Though I might not be much help if it's a technical issue.

[Warhawk]

So does this mean you cannot use rookie pilots with this Mike? As they need to plan right after moving before the other players plan their maneuvers. Or is there an idea to incorporate this? As far as solo is concerned rookie pilots or wounded pilots are sort of difficult to simulate.

PS I like how you incorporated Human/AI each sequence so that if someone drops out or even shows up (or maybe even is taking too long in the washroom ) you can change it.

[fast.git]

I agree with Wes... I like the option of switching the AIs "on and off" as the game progresses.

After a quick read-through, I have a question concerning turn order: why do aircraft 1 & 2 (human-controlled) switch turn resolution? The first time through, they alternate plotting and resolution... then #2 switches to plotting and resolving first. Is this as intended?

[Yenwing]

Other than the question fast.git has, I don't see any issues. Again, I'm pretty new to WGS though, so I wouldn't be surprised if I missed something too!
I would love to see elevation incorporated into the solo game, but I'm not sure how easy that would be to do.
Thanks for doing all this work. I'm excited to see this finished.

[Yenwing]

I need some feedback to indicate if this is good, or needs corrections.
I have used Eric's [7eat51] WGS Aircraft and Maneuver Deck Matrix to start a database of cards to select from for moves. As the initial chart didn't have any 30 or 45 degree turns, this was fudged to indicate a turn, either short or long (isn't this speed? or what?)

So, I need help. Please. Contributions are solicited.

If I'm understanding this correctly, I think the chart has the long being the 30 degree turn and the short being the 45 (or 60) degree turn.

[OldGuy59]

So does this mean you cannot use rookie pilots with this Mike? As they need to plan right after moving before the other players plan their maneuvers. Or is there an idea to incorporate this? As far as solo is concerned rookie pilots or wounded pilots are sort of difficult to simulate.

PS I like how you incorporated Human/AI each sequence so that if someone drops out or even shows up (or maybe even is taking too long in the washroom ) you can change it.

At this point, I'm trying to cover the basic game. I have discussed the skill levels with my associate, but I wanted the basic and standard rules sorted out before tackling the more difficult sequencing.

I agree with Wes... I like the option of switching the AIs "on and off" as the game progresses.

After a quick read-through, I have a question concerning turn order: why do aircraft 1 & 2 (human-controlled) switch turn resolution? The first time through, they alternate plotting and resolution... then #2 switches to plotting and resolving first. Is this as intended?

The switch in who goes first is for a wounded pilot. Check the rules, and you will find that a wounded pilot has to move and plan immediately, then everyone else moves, then everyone shoots, and everyone else plans. I think. Which is why I'm asking some more experienced players (EG: someone who has actually played with wounded or skilled pilots, cause I haven't played more than 10 total WGS games. Including the HMS Glorious demos.

Other than the question fast.git has, I don't see any issues. Again, I'm pretty new to WGS though, so I wouldn't be surprised if I missed something too!
I would love to see elevation incorporated into the solo game, but I'm not sure how easy that would be to do.
Thanks for doing all this work. I'm excited to see this finished.

Altitude isn't going to be programed by me, as I don't use it in any WoG games. Besides, You'd need a heck of a more experienced player and programer than I am to do it. See previous discussions on the Epiphany and Second Epiphany for adding Altitude. Most solo players substitute a climb or dive on any straight maneuver, as appropriate for the AI.

If I'm understanding this correctly, I think the chart has the long being the 30 degree turn and the short being the 45 (or 60) degree turn.

Joaquim [Blackronin] says he didn't account for any different degrees of turns, except the hard 60-90 degree turn in one/some of the decks. I'm waiting to see what he says about the idea of tailoring the app to specific decks, and what that might mean for the degrees of turns. On the Chart, it says long or short 60 degree turns, and I thought that was decided by speed, not a different card. But, what do I know about WGS?

Thanks for the input, guys!

[Warhawk]

You have the sequence of wounded pilots right. In fact as I understand it rookie pilots act the same way and ignore their first wound chit. So one could just put their rookie pilots in your wounded category and it would probably work. Of course I'm playing with the WoW deluxe set rules so I'm not sure if this has changed or what.

[Yenwing]

At this point, I'm trying to cover the basic game. I have discussed the skill levels with my associate, but I wanted the basic and standard rules sorted out before tackling the more difficult sequencing.



The switch in who goes first is for a wounded pilot. Check the rules, and you will find that a wounded pilot has to move and plan immediately, then everyone else moves, then everyone shoots, and everyone else plans. I think. Which is why I'm asking some more experienced players (EG: someone who has actually played with wounded or skilled pilots, cause I haven't played more than 10 total WGS games. Including the HMS Glorious demos.




Joaquim [Blackronin] says he didn't account for any different degrees of turns, except the hard 60-90 degree turn in one/some of the decks. I'm waiting to see what he says about the idea of tailoring the app to specific decks, and what that might mean for the degrees of turns. On the Chart, it says long or short 60 degree turns, and I thought that was decided by speed, not a different card. But, what do I know about WGS?

Thanks for the input, guys!

I completely missed the wounded pilot 2 on the first attack. As for the 60 degree turns in Joaquim's chart, I think that is a typo. When I look at the decks I have, most have a 30 degree (long) and 45 degree (short) with the O deck the only 60 degree turn (Spitfire). When I use Joaquim's chart if I get the long I use the 30 degree and short I use the 45 degree. Then for the spitfire I use the 60 degree when I get the 90 degree option.

Edit:
The movement chart I had shows 30deg, 45deg, 60deg, and 90deg. I just looked at the one you linked to earlier and that has 30, 2x60's and 90. I'm not sure which one is accurate. I need to get a compass to check my actual decks, but it looks to me that they are 30,45,60.

Edit 2: here is the link to the chart I saw. I have no idea how accurate it is, but it looks good to me
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...o=file&id=1742

[fast.git]

You have the sequence of wounded pilots right. In fact as I understand it rookie pilots act the same way and ignore their first wound chit. So one could just put their rookie pilots in your wounded category and it would probably work. Of course I'm playing with the WoW deluxe set rules so I'm not sure if this has changed or what.

That should work... and, by extension, maybe it could be expanded to include skill levels.

Most solo players substitute a climb or dive on any straight maneuver, as appropriate for the AI.

That's how I handle it. To be honest, playing with or without altitude doesn't change how cards/maneuvers are selected.

[Marechallannes]

I'll test this.

Thx for development.

[OldGuy59]

Sorry for the delay, but the latest update on the app: Turn Sequence Assistance Required

[OldGuy59]

All,
Are there two speeds to the 60 and 90 degree turns? I'm doing up graphics for the app, and I don't have any maneuver decks past WWS "I" (except my new WGS "N" deck).

[Teaticket]

Deck L has a 90 degree turn, two speeds. I don't see any turns with one speed, only slips.

[OldGuy59]

OK!

Thanks, Peter.