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Thread: Some thoughts on a Battle of Britain scenario generator

  1. #1

    Default Some thoughts on a Battle of Britain scenario generator

    Dear all

    Last night I played a Battle of Britain game using about a dozen models. after the game my mates and I discussed how to generate a campaign or series of scenarios.

    One idea that came up, and seems to show some promise is a flow chart using various decision points which will affect how the scenario turns out. The players work through the flow chart and use their own decisions and some random dice rolls to determine the exact situation before the models are placed on the tabletop. This would include events such as:

    Aircraft dropping out due to mechanical problems
    Intercepting incoming bombers before they reach their targets
    Being engaged by enemy fighter cover before reaching the bombers/targets etc
    Arriving late and picking off enemy stragglers - some of which may have been damaged by flak etc
    Sudden arrival of friendly/enemy reinforcements etc

    I need to do some more reading but it might make an interesting "pre fight" exercise in its own right.

    The other thing we found interesting while playing last night was the use of bomber formations. We used four Ju 87s and 2 HE111s in the game. As the bomber had yet to reach their targets (being intercepted over the channel) we assumed that they would just hold their course, speed and altitude until such time as they were damaged or unable to keep up with the group. I was pleased to see that this resulted in the stuka flight sticking together in a most realistic fashion. A couple of Spitfires broke through the Me109 and Me110 screen and hit the Ju87s. The first attack resulted in two damaged stukas and the rear gunner of one being put out of action. However the stukas kept a tight formation and as the Spitfires swung round for another attack the Stuka which had lost its gunner was protected by the other three stukas. The Spifires had to carefully select their next attack to try and avoid the rear guns on the Ju87s.

    After a few more turns one of the Spitfires managed a beam attack on the Stukas and avoided the defensive fire. The nearest Stuka was hit and smoking. A couple of turns later it was shot down. By now the Stuka formation was looking a bit battered - one shot down, two of the others damaged (one smoking and another with no rear gunner). Still they held their formation and eventually the fighter escort was able to divert the attention of the Spitfires away from the stukas.

    At the end of the game one Spitfire and one Stuka had been shot down, but the other three stukas had all suffered damage and were most unlikely to reach their target. A couple of the Me109s had been damaged but the poor old Me110s had struggled to try and latch on to the Spitfires.

    We all felt that the fight around the Stuka flight seemed to reflect some of the historical accounts. We'll certainly try this one again.

    Malibumax

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    Very interesting thread, Max.
    I'll keep an eye on your exploitations.

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    Nice Max, will like to see what you come up with.

    Thomas

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    Sounds like an interesting battle. I am glad to hear that your game involved the keeping of formation. (I am starting to put together a Zweda JU88, I can already see the mass formations in the skies ;-) )

    I too would be interested to hear how your thinking progresses on this scenario generator idea. Looking forward to more!
    Here is another one I have read of recently: Yet another factor could be the grounding of expected additional fighter cover due to fog at the other airfield. i.e. weather factors.

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    I've drawn up a few ideas as a flow chart but the problem this week is finding time to sit down and work on it - there always seems to be other jobs to do at the moment.

    :-)

    Max

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    This sounds promising. I like the idea of surprise reinforcements in the middle of the battle. Looking forward to seeing this.

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    My current thoughts are that the campaign will be run from the POV of the British - it should be fairly easy to provide a German version once the basic system has been sorted out and tested.

    The players will start a scenario either in the air (on patrol) or at their airfield (Scramble).

    If they start the game on patrol they will run the risk of being bounced by the German fighter sweep preceding the bombers, but if they avoid it then they will have a chance of engaging the fighter escort or getting at the bombers before the escorting fighters can intervene and before the bombers reach their target. This will represent the direction from the ground controllers.

    If the players Scramble, they will arrive later, but with a good chance that the fighter sweep has been engaged by other friendly forces, and if the bombers have not yet reached their targets they will be able to go straight for the bombers and escorts.

    If the players arrive after the bombers have reached their target then the game will be an attack on the German aircraft as they turn for home. Some of the enemy planes may well be damaged or low on fuel or ammunition. In this case the players will be trying to prevent the enemy making their escape and picking off stragglers. the German fighter escorts will be faced with the job of keeping the British away from the bombers until they exit the playing area.

    I like the idea of surprise events happening during a game - an aircraft being unserviceable or having to RTB with a mechanical problem for example. Others might be the arrival of friendly aircraft to join in the battle or being bounced by unseen enemy fighters.

    I am also considering a system which covers a whole day during the height of the BoB. The players would be tasked during the day with both scrambles and routine patrols. It will be possible for the scenario to generate more than one tabletop battle, and it will be the players who decide whether or not to continue. A damaged aircraft might be forced to RTB leaving the others to continue. alternatively the players might decide to play it safe and return to rearm and refuel before setting out on another mission.

    Lots of ideas - I just need to find the time to do some more research and get something down on paper!

    Malibumax

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    Sounds very interesting! Will watch this space.

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    Right up my street Max.
    Sounds just like the sort of thing we have done over the years with our land based war games.
    We sometimes have a series of cards with random incidents on them, rather like roving monsters in D&D. These may be reports which arrive at HQ which give information. Decide how likely it is to be a real accurate report, and act accordingly. could be something you hear or see. Do you investigate or continue with your original plan. In our Aircraft games, this could be a radar report for example. do you detach a Flight to investigate or is it just a blind by the enemy. The more info you get from the cards the more you may discover, but waiting too long before deciding may mean you have missed out on a chance to down the enemy. There may of course be conflicting info on different cards. Did the operator at Bletchly Park get that message decoded properly?
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

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    This is all good stuff Max, vectoring the flight in is a good way to go - some other tweaks that might make it more interesting are the simple things like facings - where on the clock are the enemy when you arrive in the battle area, and which way are the going relative to you ?
    Something we've employed in OTT for WW1 is a level of damage at which an aircraft will break off from the action - even in formations a point comes when aircraft fall out and head for home - this could make your attacks more exciting and maybe introduce the claims for probables !
    I wish you luck with it all.

    "He is wise who watches"

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Something we've employed in OTT for WW1 is a level of damage at which an aircraft will break off from the action - even in formations a point comes when aircraft fall out and head for home - this could make your attacks more exciting and maybe introduce the claims for probables !
    I have a similar system in another set of naval rules - it uses a simple formula based on the damage rating of the ship modified by the leadership and morale of the crew to determine at which point the vessel will leave an action. It could easily be modified for use with Wings of War etc

    Max

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    Here's what we use in OTT for morale Max:

    All aircraft will actively engage until they are:
    a. Within 3 of destruction, or,
    b. Within 5 of destruction if on fire, or,
    c. The pilot’s wounded (on A deck 5 or B deck 3) or,
    d. The engine is damaged,
    They will then disengage and head for the barn at best speed taking whatever evasive manoeuvres are necessary for survival, and shots at targets of opportunity - that's something in range crossing their nose !


    Wounded pilots bugging out - Rather than they just go we use the damage number to dictate the result ie the severity of the wound. So on a Wounded Pilot A deck hit of 5 or B deck hit of 3 the pilots head for home but on a Wounded Pilot A deck 3 or B deck 1 they will stay in the fight. This means your pilots may fight on in spite of a wound, or, equally, may push off home. The cards will decide.

    It's simple & easy to remember but doesn't take into account individuals 'grit'

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    Flash

    The system I have seen is similar but uses a dice roll - the player gets the right score he can continue to fight - a fail and the ship leaves the action.

    BTW I have just picked up a couple of books on the Luftwaffe and Battle of Britain from my local library. I will read them and make some notes over the Christmas period. I am tied up with family over the next couple of weeks but I should be able to find time to read and make some notes. Hopefully I shall be able to come back to this in the New year (by which time I should have a flight of Hurricanes ready for use as well).

    Max

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    Busy time of year - getting some reinforcements to my collection myself and I have a couple of projects I want to do for WW1 that will have to go on hold - but it doesn't stop you thinking about them ! Have a good one

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malibumax View Post
    Flash

    The system I have seen is similar but uses a dice roll - the player gets the right score he can continue to fight - a fail and the ship leaves the action.

    BTW I have just picked up a couple of books on the Luftwaffe and Battle of Britain from my local library. I will read them and make some notes over the Christmas period. I am tied up with family over the next couple of weeks but I should be able to find time to read and make some notes. Hopefully I shall be able to come back to this in the New year (by which time I should have a flight of Hurricanes ready for use as well).

    Max
    It is the word "di*e" that some of us find an anathema Max. In a card based game we go to a lot of trouble to avoid di*e as much as possible. Some of us are di*eaphobic through playing incessant games of WarHammer in our formative years.
    Others are purists and just want to remain within the spirit of the game as devised.
    Whatever the reasons, we will just substitute cards to your wonderful system when it is revealed in its full majesty.
    Have a good Christmas with lots of new aircraft. I know I will the first of mine arrived today.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Here's what we use in OTT for morale Max:

    All aircraft will actively engage until they are:
    a. Within 3 of destruction, or,
    b. Within 5 of destruction if on fire, or,
    c. The pilot’s wounded (on A deck 5 or B deck 3) or,
    d. The engine is damaged,
    They will then disengage and head for the barn at best speed taking whatever evasive manoeuvres are necessary for survival, and shots at targets of opportunity - that's something in range crossing their nose !


    Wounded pilots bugging out - Rather than they just go we use the damage number to dictate the result ie the severity of the wound. So on a Wounded Pilot A deck hit of 5 or B deck hit of 3 the pilots head for home but on a Wounded Pilot A deck 3 or B deck 1 they will stay in the fight. This means your pilots may fight on in spite of a wound, or, equally, may push off home. The cards will decide.

    It's simple & easy to remember but doesn't take into account individuals 'grit'
    I also use a bug out option if the plane takes 50% damage in one turn.


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malibumax View Post
    Flash

    The system I have seen is similar but uses a dice roll - the player gets the right score he can continue to fight - a fail and the ship leaves the action.

    BTW I have just picked up a couple of books on the Luftwaffe and Battle of Britain from my local library. I will read them and make some notes over the Christmas period. I am tied up with family over the next couple of weeks but I should be able to find time to read and make some notes. Hopefully I shall be able to come back to this in the New year (by which time I should have a flight of Hurricanes ready for use as well).

    Max
    Suggest you read /buy Ten Fighter Boys ISBN 978-0-00-7236393-0 published by Collins .The real thing told by BoB pilots.


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

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    I very much would like to see this generator when it is done. It would make it great for playing just pick-up games even with my son. Although I want to turn it into an ongoing campaign, along the lines of what is done here. I agree with the (no-dice crowd) for this card based game. I may even adapt the generator to tell me which of the pilots are involved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Right up my street Max.
    Sounds just like the sort of thing we have done over the years with our land based war games.
    We sometimes have a series of cards with random incidents on them, rather like roving monsters in D&D.
    Rob.
    Rob - which land based war games do you play? I played one in the mid-80's I can't find rules for. It was similar to Battlegrounds, but it was played differently as each individual in your squad moved. It was 1/72 or 1/76 scale based. I have since adapted my own rules using battleground and squad leader, and a deck of playing cards for turn generation. I haven't played in 15 years though, those poor squads are just sitting in a box.

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    Can't really help with that Mischa, as apart from War Hammer which I have not touched for 20 odd years, I only play AWI, ACW, Wars of the Roses/ Burgundian, ECW, and Zulu Wars, which is all I have the Armies for, although I am starting to dabble in French and Indian Wars a bit.
    However, one of the chaps is bound to know the answer.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

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    I can't dabble in anything else. It takes all of our willpower NOT to get into Star Wars mini's. I found WoW/WoG before I saw the Star Wars mini's or we would own ALL of them. It's hard to fund all of my interests..so many fun things to do in the world!

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    As for the generator...I guess right off the bat the first decision to be made is


    1) Are bombers used?
    2) If yes - Heading to a target? Or returning
    3) If yes - Is target used in this scenario? If returning - stragglers or normal? (could be reconnaissance & picture taking)

    I don't know where you put in - if on ground or not - probably in both cases (w/ or w/o fighters).
    If grounded, perhaps they arrive later. Or perhaps take off from one end of the table.

    Hrm, a see a flow chart, and lots of options. OR perhaps it's better as pre-made scenarios to select AFTER an initial question.

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    Just a thought. Might be worth a look, even if it is only for some inspiration. The Too Fat Lardies guys are well known for their rules being more about 'playing the period, not the rules' and take a view on life that matches a lot of what I see on here.

    Things like Chain Of Command being scenario based and not points based. Sound familiar?

    Anyway, enough waffling. Have a look at their campaign framework for WWII. http://toofatlardies.co.uk/index.php...products_id=95

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    Just a thought. Might be worth a look, even if it is only for some inspiration. The Too Fat Lardies guys are well known for their rules being more about 'playing the period, not the rules' and take a view on life that matches a lot of what I see on here.

    Things like Chain Of Command being scenario based and not points based. Sound familiar?

    Anyway, enough waffling. Have a look at their campaign framework for WWII. http://toofatlardies.co.uk/index.php...products_id=95

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    Thanks for the comments. I haven't forgotten about this but I have been a bit tied up with other things over the past couple of weeks.

    My initial ideas are proving to be a bit ambitious and it began to look like an exercise in dice rolling or flow-charting. I would much rather have something simpler which can be easily worked out to provide realistic scenarios without too much paperwork or dice rolling.

    I have concentrated on the KanalKampf phase of the battle of Britain to begin with and I'm trying to come with several basic scenarios which can be linked together to make up an evening's play eg avoid being bounced, fight your way to the bombers etc.

    Here is a work in progress - a scenario based on the British fighters being successfully vectored into a good position from which to start their attack before the bombers reach their target. Their objective of course is to prevent the enemy bombers from getting off the far end of the table.



    Roger Control, Engaging Now!


    The British Aircraft have been vectored into a good position to commence their attack and have the advantage.

    The enemy bombers start one third of the way along the centre line of the long axis of the playing area at an altitude of 6, 7 or 8 (player's choice), shown at A on the diagram. At least one of the bombers must start at A, the others may be placed either to the side or rear of point A, but not in front of it. The arrow indicates the direction of movement of the bombers.

    Escorting fighters may start anywhere within two range ruler lengths of A and the German player may select their altitude.

    Once the German player has set up his aircraft and announced their altitude the British player may select his starting position(s) and height. The British aircraft may attack from any point along any side of the playing area but may not commence the game within one range ruler of an enemy aircraft.

    The German bombers are considered fully laden (with a full bomb load) and must fly straight and level unless they are damaged (smoke, fire, engine) or have one or more of the crew killed or wounded, in which case they may jettison their bombs and take evasive action.



    Unfortunately the forum will not allow me to upload the diagram showing the playing area but you can probably figure it out.

    Also, I am considering using morale rules for the bombers to determine when and if they take evasive action. This can probably be simply worked out based on the level of damage and casualties, plus a a variable for crew morale.

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    Thanks for the comments. I haven't forgotten about this but I have been a bit tied up with other things over the past couple of weeks.

    My initial ideas are proving to be a bit ambitious and it began to look like an exercise in dice rolling or flow-charting. I would much rather have something simpler which can be easily worked out to provide realistic scenarios without too much paperwork or dice rolling.

    I have concentrated on the KanalKampf phase of the battle of Britain to begin with and I'm trying to come with several basic scenarios which can be linked together to make up an evening's play eg avoid being bounced, fight your way to the bombers etc.

    Here is a work in progress - a scenario based on the British fighters being successfully vectored into a good position from which to start their attack before the bombers reach their target. Their objective of course is to prevent the enemy bombers from getting off the far end of the table.



    Roger Control, Engaging Now!


    The British Aircraft have been vectored into a good position to commence their attack and have the advantage.

    The enemy bombers start one third of the way along the centre line of the long axis of the playing area at an altitude of 6, 7 or 8 (player's choice), shown at A on the diagram. At least one of the bombers must start at A, the others may be placed either to the side or rear of point A, but not in front of it. The arrow indicates the direction of movement of the bombers.

    Escorting fighters may start anywhere within two range ruler lengths of A and the German player may select their altitude.

    Once the German player has set up his aircraft and announced their altitude the British player may select his starting position(s) and height. The British aircraft may attack from any point along any side of the playing area but may not commence the game within one range ruler of an enemy aircraft.

    The German bombers are considered fully laden (with a full bomb load) and must fly straight and level unless they are damaged (smoke, fire, engine) or have one or more of the crew killed or wounded, in which case they may jettison their bombs and take evasive action.



    Unfortunately the forum will not allow me to upload the diagram showing the playing area but you can probably figure it out.

    Also, I am considering using morale rules for the bombers to determine when and if they take evasive action. This can probably be simply worked out based on the level of damage and casualties, plus a a variable for crew morale.

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    That's a pretty good backdrop for a scenario. Most of mine will pretty standard, but filling in the blanks with detail makes it richer experience. You could prewrite several and just draw some chits for each side to see what you get, roll a die, play #6.

    Or you could randomly draw each time.

    Use damage chit from each kind (A,B,C,D).

    A = Bomb/Recon a target
    B = Bomber escapes map
    C = Fighters attack
    D = Fighters escape map

    Then one more time:
    A-A Bomb train
    A-B Bomb ship
    A-C Bomb/Recon Factory
    A-D Bomb/Recon Airfield

    B-A Laden heading to target w/ escorts
    B-B Unladen returning home w/ escorts
    B-C Laden to target - no escorts
    B-D Unladen heading home - no escort (or it comes to meet you) after move 3, but on opposite side of board

    Etc.

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    I know it is World War one based but you can glean some pretty good ideas from the Oberst's own campaign "Knights of the Air." here in the files.

    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...hp?do=cat&id=1

    Or look at some of the WW2 files.

    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...p?do=cat&id=12

    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

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    Try Bolt Action. Very good for squad/platoon sized games. And cheap to download digitally from Amazon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham Resident View Post
    I very much would like to see this generator when it is done. It would make it great for playing just pick-up games even with my son. Although I want to turn it into an ongoing campaign, along the lines of what is done here. I agree with the (no-dice crowd) for this card based game. I may even adapt the generator to tell me which of the pilots are involved.



    Rob - which land based war games do you play? I played one in the mid-80's I can't find rules for. It was similar to Battlegrounds, but it was played differently as each individual in your squad moved. It was 1/72 or 1/76 scale based. I have since adapted my own rules using battleground and squad leader, and a deck of playing cards for turn generation. I haven't played in 15 years though, those poor squads are just sitting in a box.
    See you on the Dark Side......

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    Dear all

    After much work and a brief playtest this evening I have (hopefully) attached a PDF file with my initial working version of the BoB scenario generator.

    This evening we played through the flowchart and then played the first scenario on the tabletop. Everything seemed to work pretty well for a first try and the scenario played out well, The attached pics are from the playest with the RAF getting the drop on the bombers and escorts.

    Unfortunately I am tied up with other games for the next couple of weeks so won't be able to look at it again for a while.

    I have attached the PDF file so that those who are interested can download it and have a look at it.

    BTW, if the images have uploaded correctly, we were using FW190's instead of 109's as I haven't got any 109's yet. The Hurricanes in Soviet markings will at some point be repainted in RAF colours but I'll need to get some suitable decals from AIM first.

    All the best

    Malibu Max
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails testgame1.jpg   testgame2.jpg  
    Attached Files

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    Yes Max!
    Thanks. It downloaded fine for me.
    I will give it a look over later today if I get half a chance.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

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    I have had a look at your scenarios Max.
    They flow very nicely and I like your initiative system.
    The only thing I would add myself is the shortage of fuel experienced by the German Fighters.
    As they expended more fuel in combat situations, I would limit actual fighting time for each aircraft before it had to break for home.
    An excellent little campaignette.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    I have had a look at your scenarios Max.
    They flow very nicely and I like your initiative system.
    The only thing I would add myself is the shortage of fuel experienced by the German Fighters.
    As they expended more fuel in combat situations, I would limit actual fighting time for each aircraft before it had to break for home.
    An excellent little campaignette.
    Rob.
    Thanks Rob

    I did think about fuel and ammunition but it started to get increasingly complicated and I wanted to keep it as simple as possible with minimal paperwork and bookkeeping.

    One way the German fuel situation can be represented is by engaging the Freie jagd and Fighter escort earlier in the game, which can reduce the fighter presence in later scenarios.

    Max

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skafloc View Post
    Try Bolt Action. Very good for squad/platoon sized games. And cheap to download digitally from Amazon.
    For company size with a card driven friction system try I Ain't Been Shot Mum. For platoon size try Chain of Command. Both from Too Fat Lardies. Happy to help anyone out with info on either.

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    These look great, Max! Thanks for all of your work.

    In terms of fuel limits, particularly for the 109s, might the addition of a scenario turn limit represent their need to turn for home? It might be done as a "hidden" chit draw (set the base game length in number of rounds + a damage chit or two for variability's sake)...

    Once their number comes up, the Germans need to head for home...

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    Quote Originally Posted by PrivateBuzz View Post
    For company size with a card driven friction system try I Ain't Been Shot Mum. For platoon size try Chain of Command. Both from Too Fat Lardies. Happy to help anyone out with info on either.
    Not sure that I'm familiar with this phrase... "card driven friction system." What does it do and how does it work?

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    I think he means the cards drive initiative in the wargame. It's not a you move-I move game. In this case - take a deck of cards - flip the top one - if it's red - I go, if it's black you do. Pick one unit/piece/group and move/shoot them. We flip the next card - repeat. We will both get an equal number of turns, but in the heat of battle, maybe some folks move faster than others.

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    Interesting. I can see that working for land- and sea-based wargames -- in fact I'm familiar with the Conflict of Heroes series of games which uses a variable number of Action Points [APs] and activation costs to simulate this, as well as Richard Borg's Commands and Colors system that makes use of cards to dictate in which section your army may move units) -- but how would this work with aircraft?

    Or am I just being obtuse and applying this concept too literally?

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    I don't know if it would apply to Airplane games, it appears to be a side-conversation regarding a land based game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham Resident View Post
    I don't know if it would apply to Airplane games, it appears to be a side-conversation regarding a land based game.
    You're absolutely right. Completely missed Neil's mention of Bolt Action. My reward for skimming...!

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    In IABSM each platoon, Big Man (a leader of different ranks) or special piece of equipment has a card in the deck. There is also a 'tea break' card which essentially ends the turn. The deck is shuffled and cards drawn.

    Each unit activates on its card draw or a big man card means the big man can direct two or more units depending on rank.

    This tries to replicate the fact that good leaders could influence the battlefield and the random order of movement or the early turn meaning you do not activate, replicates friction. Friction is defined as the giving of orders does not always result in immediate reaction from troops. In abstract they may not hear and have to have the instruction repeated, they may hesitate as the order is a bit daft etc etc.

    Remember, game turns are actually very small pieces of real time so a short delay is nothing really.

    This was just a reply to a question earlier on about some land based systems. I also have mentioned earlier my fondness of anything made by the Too Fat Lardies team. They tend to be scenario driven not points driven. The fun being in playing the period not the rules. Fun is no. 1 much like this game I feel in terms of its 'attitude'.

    I also mentioned the TFL campaign and character generation rules for aerial warfare called 'Squadron Forward'. This is a dynamic system rather than a complex flow chart with branches depending on previous actions.

    Just my two pennies worth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PrivateBuzz View Post
    Just my two pennies worth.
    Very cool. I wasn't familiar with this prior to your explanation... quite the return on those two pennies!

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    Hi chaps

    This thread is drifting away from the discussion of Battle of Britain scenarios.

    Would you mind please keeping to the topic and moving the discussion about TFL games somewhere more appropriate?

    Thanks

    Max

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malibumax View Post
    Hi chaps

    This thread is drifting away from the discussion of Battle of Britain scenarios.

    Would you mind please keeping to the topic and moving the discussion about TFL games somewhere more appropriate?

    Thanks

    Max
    Apologies, Max... refocusing.

    Quote Originally Posted by fast.git View Post
    In terms of fuel limits, particularly for the 109s, might the addition of a scenario turn limit represent their need to turn for home? It might be done as a "hidden" chit draw (set the base game length in number of rounds + a damage chit or two for variability's sake)...

    Once their number comes up, the Germans need to head for home...
    What do you think about something of this nature?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fast.git View Post
    Apologies, Max... refocusing.



    What do you think about something of this nature?
    I have come across conflicting views on whether or not the 109s could make it all the way to London, loiter time etc. I think the real issue is if they get engaged by the RAF early on, which will force them to use their fuel at a faster rate.

    I don't want to get into book keeping or trying to track fuel consumption as these will slow down an evening's gaming.

    Max

  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malibumax View Post
    I have come across conflicting views on whether or not the 109s could make it all the way to London, loiter time etc. I think the real issue is if they get engaged by the RAF early on, which will force them to use their fuel at a faster rate.

    I don't want to get into book keeping or trying to track fuel consumption as these will slow down an evening's gaming.

    Max
    Fair point. Ease of play and enjoyment factor are huge considerations!

    I must admit to some surprise, however... I was under the impression that the limits of the 109E's loiter time was pretty widely accepted. Regardless, another interesting point (and not necessarily germane to a game of this complexity) was made by Ulrich Steinhilper in his Spitfire on my Tail (great book, btw): he claimed that one of the most frustrating aspects of flying against the RAF over Britain was that -- in his experience -- the 109s weren't allowed to range freely. Rather, they were tied to the bombers and, therefore, it was always a matter of the them getting bounced by the Spitfires and Hurricanes who always knew where the 109s would be, and when they'd get there.

  46. #46

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    I think you can always find evidence to support a particular point of view - even with something as well documented as BoB. I confess that my own primary interest is ground warfare, not air combat, and thus I have a laymen's knowledge of aerial warfare in WW2.

    I dislike playing games with no outcomes though and in my wargaming my friends and I concentrate on playing whole campaigns rather than simply throwing some models onto the tabletop and charging at each other. We are trying to produce something similar for the Battle of Britain games, where we can play a series of linked games where the result of one will affect the following game.

    Last monday's playtest of the flowchart seemed to indicate that we are on the right lines. We do however rather like the elegance of the WoW system and don't want to over complicate what is a smooth and fast playing game.

    :-)

    Max

  47. #47


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    Thanks for posting the scenario flow chart. I've just downloaded it.

    As a side question how have you made the fire marker on the FW190? It looks very impressive.

  48. #48

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    On the issue of dwell time over London, a lot of the problem also stemmed from the other side of the Channel.
    The fighters often had to hang around waiting for the bombers to form up, and this could have a very detrimental effect on getting to London, especially as you say if they were engaged early over Kent.
    I would assume that everything went like clockwork, and therefore you can get a good game with Fighter cover over London. Leigh Mallory obviously failed to turn up in time again.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  49. #49

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    Great stuff Max. Simple and enticing

  50. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by twr View Post
    Thanks for posting the scenario flow chart. I've just downloaded it.

    As a side question how have you made the fire marker on the FW190? It looks very impressive.
    A white pipe cleaner, bent over at one end and soaked in a watery mix of black acrylic paint and black ink and allowed to dry. The flames were painted using a red acrylic paint and highlighted with yellow.

    Pipe cleaners are cheap - about a pound for a pack of 100 - just experiments with the different colours until you get the effect you like.

    :-)

    Max

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