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Thread: The Big thread of extra Maneuver Decks

  1. #201

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowcat View Post
    May have to look for something like that here in the states...good tip
    Michael's or Hobby Lobby.
    Pat Catan's if you have one nearby. JoAnn's is a possible too.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  2. #202

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    I don't know if this is the right thread, but maybe I have an idea concerning the use of maneuver decks.

    I was playing with the idea of making a kind of template containing all the maneuvers of one deck onto one card.
    The planing could either be done by using the maneuver cards or by using numbered tokens insted.
    When moving the planes you can use the template thus reducing the wear and tear of the original maneuver cards.

    Here is my first prototype. (The maneuver deck W from WGF for the Hannover CL. IIIA)

    Name:  MATE-W.jpg
Views: 1127
Size:  41.5 KB

    What do you think of the idea?
    Last edited by Sashdash; 07-28-2016 at 12:16. Reason: Changed a small mistake in climb/dive symbol

  3. #203

    LOOP
    Guest


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    That could be usefull

  4. #204

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    I think it is insane, but genius Sascha.
    I can't see anyone objecting to this idea. It will save a huge amount of time in moving AI controlled aircraft.
    I love it.
    Rob.
    Last edited by Flying Officer Kyte; 07-27-2016 at 11:14.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  5. #205

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    Great idea Sascha. What will you come up with when people complain that their number chits are wearing out?

  6. #206

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    A nice idea, especially for solo plays. But do not forget about wide S manouvres that use card from the side to side

  7. #207

  8. #208

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sashdash View Post

    Attachment 203163

    What do you think of the idea?
    Terrific idea - aren't the climb and dives reversed though ? Long for dive, short for climb.

    "He is wise who watches"

  9. #209

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    Sascha that is a great idea. I look forward to seeing them in the files area

  10. #210

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    How clever are you, then?

    Have a shot of REP, old chap!
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  11. #211

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    Wow, I didn't expect so much encouragement. Thank you! I'm glad you like it.
    Guess I will start working on the other maneuver decks then.

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Terrific idea - aren't the climb and dives reversed though ? Long for dive, short for climb.
    Yes Dave you are right. I mixed the two symbols up. I just fixed it. Thank you.

    Regards,
    Sascha

  12. #212

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    An excellent idea, Sascha. Well done!

  13. #213

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sashdash View Post
    ...Yes Dave you are right. I mixed the two symbols up. I just fixed it. Thank you...
    That's better, for a moment I thought it was just me !

    "He is wise who watches"

  14. #214

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    Hm, I'm somewhat skeptical. It's very 'busy"; I can see the utility once it's understood, but it is intimidating to understand at first. And there are some maneuvers that are missed by the card (not for this particular deck, but others). I'll take a 'ait and see' attitude towards those others.

  15. #215

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    For myself I thinlk a large print so you can see the number and write down your 3 card selection by number and a nornal sized one in a sleeve is all that is needed. Saves searching for hard to find decks. ☺

  16. #216

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    I started working on the MATES (Maneuver Templates) today.
    It's pretty time-consuming, because I'm measuring out all the arrows.
    So it will take some time.
    I got the A and B of WGF finished totay. Wow, that means I already have 3

    Once all of them are ready I intend to make a PDF and upload it to the file area.

    To follow the progress on them I opened a public album on my profile page.
    So please feel free to have a look from time to time and if you find an error on one of them please let me know.
    (The final images will have a higher resolution than the ones in the album.)

    Sascha

  17. #217

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sashdash View Post
    ...It's pretty time-consuming, because I'm measuring out all the arrows.....
    This may save you some time Sascha:
    A & N - same length
    B,C,F,H,L,M,O,Q,S,U - same length
    D,I,J,K,V,W,X - same length
    E,G,P,R,T,Y - same length
    Sometimes the only difference between decks is a side slip or a steep manoeuvre, or no Immel so the only difference on some MATES cards will be the numbering.
    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...o=file&id=2043

    "He is wise who watches"

  18. #218

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sashdash View Post
    I don't know if this is the right thread, but maybe I have an idea concerning the use of maneuver decks.

    I was playing with the idea of making a kind of template containing all the maneuvers of one deck onto one card.
    The planing could either be done by using the maneuver cards or by using numbered tokens insted.
    When moving the planes you can use the template thus reducing the wear and tear of the original maneuver cards.

    Here is my first prototype. (The maneuver deck W from WGF for the Hannover CL. IIIA)

    Name:  MATE-W.jpg
Views: 1127
Size:  41.5 KB

    What do you think of the idea?
    Skype Gaming! Awesome!

    One card for planning your moves, with the player writing down his three moves per turn. He tells the Host which card number to look for (or the basic maneuver and number), and the Host digs out the right card. This way, the remote player really doesn't need the actual deck to play, just your MATES Card!

    I'm impressed!

    PS: The Host could use the template card, too! Cuts down on digging through a bunch of cards, as well.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  19. #219

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    Someone out there did something like this a while back, I found this in my Wings of War folder from 2009:

    Name:  AllManeuvers2.jpg
Views: 907
Size:  117.4 KB

    I don't know if this is useful for your project.

  20. #220

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    Dave and Carl, thank you for the extra info and help.

    The problem is placing the arrows all on one card and still being able to see enough of every one of them.
    (And I don't want to change the card format although it would make it conciderably easier)

    I tried to bring a little order to it by changing the colors of the numbers so that now they match with the ones on the arrow.
    Today I want to make the L and M deck. I think they are the ones that are the most challenging. Let's see...

  21. #221

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    Looking great Sascha.
    To save having to put maneuver on the front why not do a generic card back with that on it and a big W etc for the decks.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  22. #222

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Looking great Sascha.
    To save having to put maneuver on the front why not do a generic card back with that on it and a big W etc for the decks.
    Rob.
    What a great idea Rob .
    I will look at the L and M deck today and see how they look on the front.
    If this gets to busy I will use the back as well, if not then I will indeed make a generic back with the Deck ID on it.
    Thanks for the contribution.

    Sascha

  23. #223

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    Not at all. Thanks for all your hard work Sascha.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  24. #224

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    I have just finished the L and M MATES.
    I've decided to go with the two-sided version, because the arrangement is clearer.
    Furthermore I went back to black numbers for the maneuver ID (except for the dive and climb maneuvers).
    Just to schow you the difference. Here is the new version with two sides...

    Name:  MATE-L1.jpg
Views: 890
Size:  38.2 KB Name:  MATE-L2.jpg
Views: 895
Size:  33.3 KB

    ...and this would be the version with just one side.

    Name:  MATE-L- OLD.jpg
Views: 855
Size:  43.1 KB

    I think two-sided is the better way to go.

    Sascha.
    Last edited by Sashdash; 07-29-2016 at 08:59. Reason: There was an error on the backside of the card

  25. #225

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    2 sided version is much easier to see. Wonderful!

  26. #226

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    This is a great idea!

  27. #227

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    Two-sided!

    Big letter in the middle!

    YES!!!!
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  28. #228

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    Applause applause.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  29. #229

    LOOP
    Guest


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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    2 sided version is much easier to see. Wonderful!
    Agreed I'd go with that.
    As someone said. This could really be a big help when flying AI planes.

  30. #230

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    Oh, the two-sided version is so much better. Far less "Busy". That pretty much sold me onto the idea, now.

  31. #231

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    I like the two-card system better - not as "busy", as others have mentioned.

    One suggestion - put the Climb and Dive on the second card.
    1) makes the first card less cluttered.
    2) keeps the "high numbers" together.


  32. #232

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    I like the two-card system better - not as "busy", as others have mentioned.

    One suggestion - put the Climb and Dive on the second card.
    1) makes the first card less cluttered.
    2) keeps the "high numbers" together.

    Thanks for the suggestion. I have also thought of that but came to the conclusion that both (the climb and dive maneuver)
    share the same arrow as the strait and stall. So I decided to leave them on the front side.

    I'm trying to leave as much as possible on the front side without overloading it.
    So normaly you will find the strait, turn, Immelmann, climb and dive maneuver on the front side (except for the L-deck with its super short turns),
    while the side slips are on the back.

    I have just finished the O and C MATES. It really helps what Dave pointed out earlier. I'm working my way through the groups with similar decks.
    So now I'm going for the group B,C,F,H,L,M,O,Q,S,U (5 of 10 are ready in this group).

    Sascha

  33. #233

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    Glad I was able to chip in Sascha - using both sides will help when you get to the wide but short side slips of some of the decks. Liking the black numbers too.
    It may also help you to know that - although the speeds are different the following decks share the same manoeuvres:
    A,S,T,V
    B,J,R
    D,U
    E,I
    K,H,Y
    Q,W

    So if working on one you can then do others with different length arrows.
    Last edited by flash; 07-30-2016 at 00:50.

    "He is wise who watches"

  34. #234

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Glad I was able to chip in Sascha - using both sides will help when you get to the wide but short side slips of some of the decks. Liking the black numbers too.
    It may also help you to know that - although the speeds are different the following decks share the same manoeuvres:
    A,S,T,V
    B,J,R
    D,U
    E,I
    K,H,Y
    Q,W

    So if working on one you can then do others with different length arrows.
    Yes, thank you Dave. I've notice that but working with a vector based program is a great thing, because like in the group with B,C,F,H,L,M,O,Q,S,U
    you start with the one that has the most maneuver types (in this case the L) and finish it. Then you copy it and remove the parts not needed to finish the other cards.
    The problem with making the turns or side slips longer is that you kind of have to reshape them.
    That is why I'm working my way through the groups with similar maneuver and same speed.

    Sascha

  35. #235

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sashdash View Post
    ...The problem with making the turns or side slips longer is that you kind of have to reshape them. That is why I'm working my way through the groups with similar maneuver and same speed...
    Gotcha, that makes sense.

    "He is wise who watches"

  36. #236

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    Bit late, but for those of us who don't use altitude, how about having climb and dive on a second card and the rest on a 2 sider?

  37. #237

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herkybird View Post
    Bit late, but for those of us who don't use altitude, how about having climb and dive on a second card and the rest on a 2 sider?
    That would only save the two tiny red climb & dive symbols - I usually don't use altitude either but I think the clutter saved by moving them to a separate card is negligible, just my 2˘

  38. #238

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    Quote Originally Posted by brdavis View Post
    That would only save the two tiny red climb & dive symbols - I usually don't use altitude either but I think the clutter saved by moving them to a separate card is negligible, just my 2˘
    I essentially agree, but as they say in Geordie-land, 'Shy Bearns get nowt!' (No harm in asking!)

  39. #239

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    Okay, I have just finished the group B,C,F,H,L,M,O,Q,S,U
    I've put a picture of them in my album.
    Have to make a break, so this is it for today.

    Sascha

  40. #240

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    Well done Sir, that was a lot of work you have put in to these, and I think we all salute your efforts!

  41. #241

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    I'm looking forward to tinkering with these in solitaire play. Thank you for posting them.

  42. #242

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    I just finished the A and N MATES.
    So the next group will be D,I,J,K,V,W,X.

    Sascha

  43. #243

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    Finished D, I, J, K, W MATES.

    Some few things that I noticed while measuring all those arrows:

    1. The D-deck is different to the rest of the group (I,J,K,V,W,X). The wide, short side slip is not as long as the others. Difference 2 mm.

    2. I found a typo on the Immelman card of the new D-deck. It is 1 mm to short. You can see this when comparing a normal strait with the Immelmann in one of the new (Ares) decks.
    The old decks are okay.

    3. The numbering of the climb and dive cards differ between the old and the new maneuver decks. In the old ones (Nexus) the climb comes first and then the dive. Vice versa for the new ones.

    I just found out that I will have to borrow the V, P, T decks from my fellow players, because I donm't have them. This will have to wait untill Wednesday when we have our next gathering.

    Regards,
    Sascha

  44. #244

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    I suspect a 1 or 2 mm difference is not deliberate, but just how the cards were cut.

  45. #245

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    The slight aberrations might be intended to delineate performance differences.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  46. #246

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    Quote Originally Posted by brdavis View Post
    I suspect a 1 or 2 mm difference is not deliberate, but just how the cards were cut.
    I think Rob is right.
    I have checked my three D-decks (2 old and 1 new) and all of them have the same arrow dimensions.
    So this can't be a cutting difference. 2 mm is not much but I discovered that because I measured all the arrows in order
    to find out if some of the decks really have the same maneuvers.
    Okay I must admit, I'm a geomatics engineer. We do things in 1/10 mm
    But I still find it interesting given that the Fokker Dr. I was a highly maneuverable aircraft.

    Sascha

  47. #247

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sashdash View Post
    I think Rob is right.
    I have checked my three D-decks (2 old and 1 new) and all of them have the same arrow dimensions.
    So this can't be a cutting difference. 2 mm is not much but I discovered that because I measured all the arrows in order
    to find out if some of the decks really have the same maneuvers.
    Okay I must admit, I'm a geomatics engineer. We do things in 1/10 mm
    But I still find it interesting given that the Fokker Dr. I was a highly maneuverable aircraft.

    Sascha
    Interesting find, I wonder what the reason is. When your precision is 1/10 mm, 2 mm is a lot
    Thanks for doing these.

  48. #248

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    I imagine we get rather more than 2mm differences in length of move at times during game play anyway due to pilot error!

  49. #249

  50. #250

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herkybird View Post
    I imagine we get rather more than 2mm differences in length of move at times during game play anyway due to pilot error!
    Well, that depends on what you use as a base. Using the original base I could agree, but using the cards or the none conical flight stands
    (like the ones in Keith's shop) you can easily make up a difference of 2 mm, especially when using the new maneuver cards with the leading bar.

    My problem is that when making those Maneuver Templates for other players I have to be accurate, because in case there are players out there
    who like moving their bases precisely I don't want to disappoint them.


    I have just finished the E and G MATES. Like I already mentioned I don't have the P, T, R, V decks but one fellow player in our Wednesday group has them.
    He also has the XD deck, so I will be continuing the MATES on Thursday.

    Don't quite know how to get the XA, XB and XC decks. Any ideas?
    It would be great if someone who has them could scan them for me.
    I don't need all of the cards. Just one strait, turn (left or right) and a stall for every deck.

    Regards,
    Sascha

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