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Thread: Next step in Rules

  1. #1

    401~RCAF
    Guest


    Default Next step in Rules

    Been playing a few times with my boys using the most basic of rules... any advice of what rules to add first to improve the realism of the game?

    Thanks

  2. #2

  3. #3

    Default

    Depending how basic you went - Special damage first / aim bonus, tailing, disruption / two-seater blind spots, crew hits / ace skills / altitude, special moves, bonus' last

  4. #4

    Default

    Altitude is a must; once you go there, you won't go back, except to introduce new players into the game
    After that, 2-seaters, bombings and other mission stuff.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  5. #5

    Default

    Altitude is a must, every thing else will fall into place in time as you play more

  6. #6

    401~RCAF
    Guest


    Default

    Thanks guys... noticed in many of the gaming pictures many players have a modified base... is that for altitude adjustments?

    Thanks
    J

  7. #7

    Default

    I'm going to go against the common wisdom and recommend against altitude... unless you are going to use the simplified altitude rules put forth by Zoe. (Should be easy enough to find on the forum.) I find that the official altitude rules are cumbersome and unrealistic. The net effect of the official rules will be to reduce firing opportunities and draw out the game.

    I would recommend adding special damage if you haven't already, plus aim and tailing as mentioned. (You won't see much in the way of tailing, but it is good to have it.) Adding various mission components like ground targets and balloons can really add to the game as well.

    Some would recommend adding collisions as well. That's another thing I would stay away from (even with altitude) unless you want every game to be a smash-up-derby in the sky. While collisions did occur, they didn't occur nearly as frequently as they will using the official rules. (In my experience it's not uncommon to see several in a single game.)

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by steel_ratt View Post
    I'm going to go against the common wisdom and recommend against altitude... unless you are going to use the simplified altitude rules put forth by Zoe. (Should be easy enough to find on the forum.) I find that the official altitude rules are cumbersome and unrealistic. The net effect of the official rules will be to reduce firing opportunities and draw out the game.

    I would recommend adding special damage if you haven't already, plus aim and tailing as mentioned. (You won't see much in the way of tailing, but it is good to have it.) Adding various mission components like ground targets and balloons can really add to the game as well.

    Some would recommend adding collisions as well. That's another thing I would stay away from (even with altitude) unless you want every game to be a smash-up-derby in the sky. While collisions did occur, they didn't occur nearly as frequently as they will using the official rules. (In my experience it's not uncommon to see several in a single game.)
    I'm with Jon. Been playing since 2012, and rarely use altitude. Perhaps when I get a gaming group together, and start playing a lot, altitude will be added. For now, all I have are new players, if any.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  9. #9

    Default

    I find altitude ok, but was daunted by it to begin with. Check the climb rates on your plane/s and have some markers ready before the game begins.
    It does make the game a lot better. Try it with one plane per player to begin with.

    If you feel it is daunting, I would recommend adding special damages to the game.

    Then look at your players selecting an (non-altitude related) Ace Skill in a later match. Try altitude later if I were you. It is however, very good fun flying down to strafe a trench and battling your way back up to a vicious dogfight.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grumpybear View Post
    Altitude is a must, every thing else will fall into place in time as you play more
    100% agree - it's a game about flying - altitude is a must.
    First add special damage and then add climbing and diving.

    Altitude dials make it a lot easier to keep track of height. If you use the pegs to mark altitude, it's still worthwhile as you can quickly change the level during the turn and fiddle with the pegs at the end of the turn.

    I use the official climb rules but one trick to make it easier is to paint the backs of the climb counters and instead of removing a token from the console - just turn it face-up. In addition, use one less counter as the plane will go up a level once it climbs and all counters are turned face-up.

    I use my own dive rules but try out the official dive rules before trying out any house rules for diving.

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by steel_ratt View Post
    I'm going to go against the common wisdom and recommend against altitude... unless you are going to use the simplified altitude rules put forth by Zoe. (Should be easy enough to find on the forum.)
    Here you go: http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...o=file&id=1367

    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  12. #12

    Default

    Playing w/out altitude gives great game, but speedboat game

  13. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by steel_ratt View Post
    I'm going to go against the common wisdom and recommend against altitude... unless you are going to use the simplified altitude rules put forth by Zoe. (Should be easy enough to find on the forum.) I find that the official altitude rules are cumbersome and unrealistic. The net effect of the official rules will be to reduce firing opportunities and draw out the game.

    I would recommend adding special damage if you haven't already, plus aim and tailing as mentioned. (You won't see much in the way of tailing, but it is good to have it.) Adding various mission components like ground targets and balloons can really add to the game as well.

    Some would recommend adding collisions as well. That's another thing I would stay away from (even with altitude) unless you want every game to be a smash-up-derby in the sky. While collisions did occur, they didn't occur nearly as frequently as they will using the official rules. (In my experience it's not uncommon to see several in a single game.)


    i agree with jon about altitude. while it does at a level of realism to the game () it will significantly slow down game play without adding significantly to the fun factor.

    i also agree with jon about adding the special damage as it adds an epic quality to the end of players pilots who get shot down and ramps up the anxious anticipation of the damage card flip.

    i further agree with jon about the frequency of collisions as, as written in the rules, they happen overmuch in a single game. our group house rules it to only occur when 1 planes peg is over another planes red dot on the card. that way the fear of collision will deter the tendency to cluster during a dogfight while greatly decreasing the likelihood.

  14. #14

    Default

    Try the simplified altitude rules - where climb goes up a peg, dive down by 2.
    Shooting at 1 peg difference isn't penalised, at 2 half effect, at 3 no firing.

    Gets rid of the "too many collisions" syndrome, doesn't slow down play. Just have lots of pegs handy.

  15. #15

    401~RCAF
    Guest


    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoe Brain View Post
    Try the simplified altitude rules - where climb goes up a peg, dive down by 2.
    Shooting at 1 peg difference isn't penalised, at 2 half effect, at 3 no firing.

    Gets rid of the "too many collisions" syndrome, doesn't slow down play. Just have lots of pegs handy.

    Tried a couple games today with this... Seemed to work well... Been trying to find "your altitude rules" do you have a link Zoe? Thanks

    j

  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Jager posted you the link here Jason.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  17. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by steel_ratt View Post
    I'm going to go against the common wisdom and recommend against altitude... unless you are going to use the simplified altitude rules put forth by Zoe. (Should be easy enough to find on the forum.) I find that the official altitude rules are cumbersome and unrealistic. The net effect of the official rules will be to reduce firing opportunities and draw out the game.

    I would recommend adding special damage if you haven't already, plus aim and tailing as mentioned. (You won't see much in the way of tailing, but it is good to have it.) Adding various mission components like ground targets and balloons can really add to the game as well.
    I think alt is a cool element for realism but we don't like the way it slows game play, its a lot of work to gain alt and causes too many passes without a shot fired, this makes the game boring and drag along.

    Some would recommend adding collisions as well. That's another thing I would stay away from (even with altitude) unless you want every game to be a smash-up-derby in the sky. While collisions did occur, they didn't occur nearly as frequently as they will using the official rules. (In my experience it's not uncommon to see several in a single game.)

  18. #18

    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by 401~RCAF View Post
    Thanks guys... noticed in many of the gaming pictures many players have a modified base... is that for altitude adjustments?

    Thanks
    J
    Yes those bases are available from the Aerodrome Store & allow you to keep track of climb counters & actual altitude.

  19. #19

    Default

    I'm also in the add altitude much later camp. Definitely use it when you get comfortable with all that leads up to it. If you add rules as the rules progress it will be easier for you to keep track of the rules you are adding.

  20. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by milcoll73 View Post
    ...i further agree with jon about the frequency of collisions as, as written in the rules, they happen overmuch in a single game. our group house rules it to only occur when 1 planes peg is over another planes red dot on the card. that way the fear of collision will deter the tendency to cluster during a dogfight while greatly decreasing the likelihood.
    I, also, agree that the official collision rules are to be avoided. The house rule I use is the planes have to be at the same altitude and the red dot of one has to overlap any of the card of the other. I found this to work well because it enables players to avoid collisions, prevents the game degenerating into a stock car rally but makes the danger of collisions a constant threat. We've played several 6 player games and with this HR collisions are very rare. I do recommend using the official collision rules for hitting balloons - it makes shooting them down a real and fun challenge.

  21. #21

    Default

    No Altitude Rules no fun

  22. #22

    Default

    I am of the opinion that altitude really bogs down a dogfight, but adds a nice additional complexity to a more structured scenario. Bombing runs are the most obvious, but balloon busting or photo recon or really any scenario with a focus to center the action (like a slow climbing two-seater) works just fine. I would suggest only using altitude in these cases, or to familiarize players with the concept so you can use it in scenario play.

  23. #23

    Default

    Been playing the simplified altitude rule put forward by Zoe. A little change though:
    Climb up 1 peg.
    Dive down 1 or 2.
    Over dive down 2.
    Immelman up 1.
    Split S down 1.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  24. #24

    Default

    Simples!
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  25. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Skafloc View Post
    Been playing the simplified altitude rule put forward by Zoe. A little change though:
    Climb up 1 peg.
    Dive down 1 or 2.
    Over dive down 2.
    Immelman up 1.
    Split S down 1.
    I like the option of choosing how many levels to drop in a dive but at what point does the player make this decision and declare it? It could have an effect if one diving plane is attacking another diving plane.

  26. #26

    Default

    Just a thought Nicola. You have hit a key question here.
    If your pilot has pre chosen a dive, and the aircraft he pursues also chooses a dive card, would you not carry on diving if he did if it were safe to do so? Therefore the only decision you have to make is if to pull out early and only use the one level option.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  27. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Just a thought Nicola. You have hit a key question here.
    If your pilot has pre chosen a dive, and the aircraft he pursues also chooses a dive card, would you not carry on diving if he did if it were safe to do so? Therefore the only decision you have to make is if to pull out early and only use the one level option.
    Rob.
    Assuming the choice is when the dive card is played (and that seems a reasonable assumption) this implies an order of declaration. When one plane is tailing another, IMHO the player controlling the tailed plane should declare first as the plane is at a clear disadvantage. But what happens if two planes are in a head on pass and are both diving at each other? In these sort of circumstances it's not so obvious. One possible solution for this issue is for the players to have numbered counters (1 and 2) and play them face-down when there are two planes both diving on the same step. All I'm doing is pointing out is if you have a lot of planes on the table (6+) the order of declaration on dive can become an issue and IMHO needs to be taken into account.



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