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Thread: Stats Committee Excel spreadsheet for WW2

  1. #1

    Default Stats Committee Excel spreadsheet for WW2

    Hi:

    Can someone point me where is the latest version of the Excel stats for unofficial planes, please?

  2. #2

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    We haven't released one yet
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  3. #3

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    Too bad. I just started WW2 myself and am quite eager to reach beyond the released planes. Hopefully soon we'll have some Unoficial plane stats.

  4. #4

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    Karl, I had one, that I downloaded from the Aerodrome before my computer burned.
    It wasn't Official Unofficial, but it had stats for many planes.
    Where can I find it, I wonder.

  5. #5

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    Boa tarde Joaquim,

    I have one excel file with the complete list of all the DOW WW2 Aircrafts (including the extensions).

    I don't know if it can help.

    If yes, let me know and I'll send it to you.

  6. #6

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    Thanks Olivier. If that's the one called "Complete DOW plane cards" I also have it.
    The one I'm after has a lot more planes.

  7. #7

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    If it's the one I posted 2 years ago, I removed it because it was hopeless out of date (no fast planes were out yet) and we got better tables for hits, climbs and ceilings from Zoe Brain and Carl Brisgamer.
    Hopefully, we can get the currently debated sheet up soon
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  8. #8

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    That's the one. But can you send it to me. I still could do good use of it until the committee sends out the correct one.

  9. #9

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    I don't know if I still have it.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  10. #10

  11. #11

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    It would be of use indeed, if Committee would release new stats.

  12. #12

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    OK, OK, Message received and understood. Let's see if we can get one out next week.

  13. #13

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    Thanks, dear Zoe. Sorry for the trouble.

  14. #14

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    When Zoe says, Zoe does

  15. #15

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    No trouble. It's something we should have done some time ago.
    I'm still recovering from being burnt, so have the opportunity to rest a bit and do some spreadsheet work. I've found that even spring sunshine for 20 mins is enough to raise blisters on the new skin, so I need to keep indoors for a while anyway.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoe Brain View Post
    OK, OK, Message received and understood. Let's see if we can get one out next week.
    That my dear Zoe is music to my ears. I do hope that your recovery is progressing well and that the Sun problem is not too debilitating.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoe Brain View Post
    No trouble. It's something we should have done some time ago.
    I'm still recovering from being burnt, so have the opportunity to rest a bit and do some spreadsheet work. ...
    Zoe,
    You may have understated the extent of your injuries? I add my hopes and positive vibes to Rob's for your recovery.

    I am also looking forward to a new listing of WWII planes, as I am getting lots of requests for planes. However, I think you'll have your hands full with "normal" operational planes, and won't be worried about some of the weird stuff I've been doing (IE: the Boeing B306 comes to mind).

    I'll be happy with anything updated that you can provide.

    Better yet, an update on how well you are recovering would be nice, too.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  18. #18

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    I make mine, Mike's words.
    We can wait. You must get better.
    I need Zoe in my life for some more decades, so take it easy.

  19. #19

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    It's just a dratted nuisance, an inconvenience. I was told to stay out of the sun, which I have been doing, but didn't realise just how little exposure would be needed.
    Every day I'm getting just a little better. It was because I healed so unusually rapidly that I let my guard down. Lesson learnt. I must get into the "burn survivor" mindset, even though I don't *feel* like I've been seriously injured.

  20. #20

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    Do be careful. I had Lyme Disease last summer. With the medication I was on I was supposed to stay out of the sun. In the later stage of the healing I felt quite good and let my guard down. Added time to fully recovering. Better to be over cautious.

  21. #21

  22. #22

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    Due to unforeseen circumstances, there's been a delay in getting the spreadsheet prepared.
    The first draft will contain mostly single-engine fighters of the early and middle war periods, plus a few other of the more popular aircraft. It will have all the Ares and Nexus releases merged in.

    It is recommended that the following house rules for ammunition, and low velocity cannon be used. Without them, early war cannon armed fighters are marginally too well armed.

    It is very highly recommended that the following house rules for self-sealing fueltanks, armour, and radial/aircooled inline engines be used. Without them, early fighters are far too tough.

    Because of the large number of variants of aircraft that look externally identical, there are literally hundreds of aircraft on the list. The first draft will deal with aircraft that saw combat before Jan 1 1942. This includes the following conflicts:

    Sino-Japanese War - Japan vs China
    Spanish Civil War - Spain vs Spain/Regia Aeronautica/Kondor Legion
    Polish Campaign - Luftwaffe/Soviets vs Poles
    Winter War - Soviets vs Finland
    Battle of France - Luftwaffe vs Armee de l'Air/RAF/Netherlands/Norway/Belgium
    Fall of France - Luftwaffe/Regia Aeronautica vs RAF/Armee de l'Air
    SeaLion - Luftwaffe/Regia Aeronautica vs RAF
    First Balkans - Bulgaria vs Rumania
    East Africa - Regia Aeronautica vs RAF
    Thai-Vichy Conflict - Thailand vs Vichy
    Early Kanalkampf - Luftwaffe vs RAF
    Opening of Pacific War - Japan vs China/US/RAF/NEI/Phillipines/Thailand

    You'll have to wait a week or two for Barbarossa, Continuation War, Western Desert, Burma, Battle of Germany, Baby Blitz, Late Pacific, etc but there should be enough for you to work with for now.

    House Rules
    Ammo - each aircraft has a number of shots with each weapon type. Thus an aircraft with 2 20mm cannon fires CC at short range, C at long, but both use up 1 ammo. Players may elect to shoot only with mgs if they have them to conserve limited cannon ammo for use at short range.
    Slow-firing Low-velocity cannon - Shoot at aircraft using small bases as if at long range (if at short), may not fire at long, but normal effect if behind and short.

    By mid 1942, most cannon no longer used drum magazines, so ammo wasn't so much of a problem. Low-velocity cannon were also replaced by more accurate and more powerful models. But before then, both were serious issues. Cannon were mostly only effective from behind, or against large aircraft where the dispersed shells were still likely to hit *somewhere* even though nowhere near the aimpoint.

    No selfsealing tanks -fires don't go out unless put out by an overdive. Fires will usually be fatal.
    No armour - control (rudder) hits do a pilot hit too.
    Inline liquid-cooled engine (ie not radial) - smoke hits do engine damage too.

    Again by 1941, all combatants had learnt that self-sealing fueltanks and armour were essential. However, retrofitting early aircraft with these sometimes imposed unacceptable performance penalties, necessitating new designs, or putting up with extreme vulnerability. Inline engines were still often used due to their lesser drag (hence higher speed), even though they were more vulnerable. By the end of the war, nearly all new aircraft used radials or aircooled inlines without vullnerable oil or glycol coolant systems.

  23. #23

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    Those are very inspiring rules, Zoe. Thanks.
    This is why I started the thread RAP 2.0 for WGF. Now it should be obvious we need that for WGS as well.
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  24. #24

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    Thanks once again, Zoe.
    I'm thrilled with what you are doing.

    I'll wait.

  25. #25

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    This fits in so well with the sort of problems I will encounter in the later stages of the Malta siege Zoe.
    Thanks so much for addressing it. I was foreseeing a nightmare of stats to wade through.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  26. #26

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    Might any of you send me the file with unofficial stats, chaps?
    nightbomber.as@gmail.com
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  27. #27

  28. #28

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    Oh yes, Mischa, Karl AKA Jager sent me it.
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  29. #29

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    We're working on a release soon.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  30. #30

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    Great.
    I look forward to this with anticipation.
    I really admire the Stats committee for grasping this second nettle after I set you the first challenge years ago.
    As I have said many times since, if I had appreciated what a mammoth task it was to become I would never have suggested it in the first place.
    All I can do now is stand back in complete awe and admiration at the sheer achievement, and defend you against the knockers. If they can do better let them try it themselves.
    Thanks a million chaps and Zoe.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  31. #31

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    This is a Herculean effort by those involved. Everyone that just even looks at the list when it comes out should pour copious amounts of REP their way.

  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    This is a Herculean effort by those involved. Everyone that just even looks at the list when it comes out should pour copious amounts of REP their way.
    Absolutely! It's a lot of checking and rechecking and comparing!

  33. #33

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    Is it ready yet? Is it ready yet? Is it ready yet? Is it ready yet? Is it ready yet? Is it ready yet? Is it ready yet? Is it ready yet? Is it ready yet? Is it ready yet?

  34. #34

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    All,
    Karl [Jager] just provided some stats for this plane: Zvezda 1/200 Soviet Tupolev SB-2-bombers.

    I note that there is a new designation for a maneuver deck, the "J(b)" with "no reversals, 45 degree turns or fast side slips". So, this appears pretty intricate in adjusting the performance of a plane. And, if the committee is doing this level of review for "all the planes in WWII", it is a massive undertaking. It goes a long way in explaining the delay to me.

    I am awestruck! Can I send Rep to the committee? Sorry if I'm oblivious and missed it, but is there a list of names for the committee I can tag with Rep?
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  35. #35

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    Jager
    Marechellannes
    Zoe Brain

    With occasional contributions and review from:
    Carl_Brisgamer
    GunTruck
    Diamondback
    gully_raker

  36. #36

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    To give you a rough idea of the effort involved, here's a typical post on our internal forum:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    From post #7. Unless noted, I agree with Zoe's choices:

    Curtiss A-12 - 177mph - too slow, need new deck, later
    Boulton-Paul Defiant - 304 mph - D deck? K I think is better.
    Junkers Ju-87A - 199 mph - too slow, need new deck, later
    Vought SB2U Vindicator - 251mph - standard I deck
    Avia B-534 - 250mph - L deck
    Heinkel He-51 - 205 mph - ZM deck
    Polikarpov I-152 - 226 mph - ZL deck
    Messerschmitt Me410 -388 mph - will need HF mod OPQR deck- later
    Martin Maryland - 304 mph - HF - M deck
    Westland Whirlwind - 360mph - ABEFGH deck - I think F
    Messerschmitt Bf109F - 398mph - Q deck (same as Spit IX)
    CAC Boomerang -305 mph - D deck? K deck?
    Go with the K deck; It’s a little too slow for the D deck, and I don’t think as good as a Wildcat

    Sukhoi Su2 - 300 mph - K deck?
    Seems right.

    Spitfire Vc (Trop) - 350 mph - A deck
    Spitfire Vc - 388mph - A deck
    Henschel Hs123 - 211mph - ZM deck
    Pzl P-11 - 242mph - J deck
    Polikarpov I-153 - 280mph - L deck
    IAR80 - 316mph - D deck
    I’m inclined to go with a C deck; I think it’s more like a Hurricane than a wildcat.

    Pzl P24 - 253mph - J deck
    Ilyushin IL-4 - 255 mph - Bomber - XA deck
    MiG 3 - 314-398mpg depending on alt - ABEFGH deck - I think E
    PBY Catalina - 196mph - too slow - later
    Seversky P35/J-9 - 290mph - K deck
    Republic P43 'Lancer' - 356 mph - ABEFGH deck - I think F
    I agree with the F deck; somewhat more spritely than the P-40s

    SNCAO 200 - 342mph - D deck
    Do we have enough data to evaluate? I have a book on French aircraft
    On hold at my library. It might be in it. That said, given it’s parentage, I’m inclined to
    Give it the C deck; a little more spritely.

    Beechcraft AT-11 (SNB-1) M18R 225mph - modified ZJ deck - later
    Seversky A8V 'D1CK' - 300mph - K deck
    P-26 - 234mph - ZJ deck
    B-10 - 241mph - I deck
    Vickers Vildebeest - 143mph - too slow - later
    CAC Wirraway - 220 mph - I deck (just)


    Potez 540 - 193 mph - too slow, later
    Nakajima Army Type 91 Fighter - 186mph - too slow, later
    Aichi D1A - 192 mph - too slow, later though ZM is close
    Curtiss-Wright CW21 A - 314 mph - C deck, was like a Zero
    Curtiss-Wright CW21 B - 314 mph - C deck, was like a Zero

  37. #37

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    This is wonderful, Zoe.
    You all have our deepest thanks.
    But can't the committee give us a beta spreadsheet just for trials? Pretty please?

  38. #38

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    More like alpha... but I'll see what can be arranged. I think it's time. Just treat it as an alpha release, there will be errors, things subject to change, typoes etc.

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoe Brain View Post
    More like alpha... but I'll see what can be arranged. I think it's time. Just treat it as an alpha release, there will be errors, things subject to change, typoes etc.
    That would be wonderful!!

  40. #40

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    Sunday, or at least before dawn Monday.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  41. #41

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    Oh boy! I'm saving up my rep gun.

  42. #42

  43. #43

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    Again - bear in mind - alpha release, incomplete, known errors etc.

  44. #44
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  45. #45

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    Cheers Karl.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  46. #46



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