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Thread: Early doors Mission 5 "The bigger they come.........." May 2nd/3rd 1916.

  1. #51

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    Posted my AAR for those interested. Very good scenario...

  2. #52

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    Rob, can you just confirm the movement rate to be used for the Zep, we have used one XD card per game turn at TWWS but you may move one XD per phase or even use a different card for movement ! Ta
    (Glad I re-read the rules, just realised it's two gas cells per dice rolled )

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Rob, can you just confirm the movement rate to be used for the Zep, we have used one XD card per game turn at TWWS but you may move one XD per phase or even use a different card for movement ! Ta
    (Glad I re-read the rules, just realised it's two gas cells per dice rolled )
    It is indeed XD as mentioned in Clipper's rules. Also played each move just as with aircraft. Pick three and play them with the aircraft move cycle. Remember that you only move the front of the Zep from the back of the card to the arrow, and not the whole base as in the aircraft, otherwise the Zep would be off the table in about five cards. Now that's motoring. Ignore climb for the Zep, because with the cell damage the only way is down.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  4. #54

  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Thanks Rob !
    Good luck Dave - beware of overshooting the Zep - moving it once per card and so slowly makes it really easy to misjudge your approach, as Thyme & Knight can attest!

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archidamus View Post
    Good luck Dave - beware of overshooting the Zep - moving it once per card and so slowly makes it really easy to misjudge your approach, as Thyme & Knight can attest!
    Yes! I can also attest to the fact that a judicious use of the stall card is advisable.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  7. #57

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    This is the only overshooting I have planned !
    Best laid plans and all that !!
    Table's all set, might get a chance to have a go tomorrow afternoon.. Zeps pretty knocked about just got get some decent shots into it now ... ha ha ...just !!

  8. #58

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    So with all the normal life then trip to Britain prep I won't be getting this one on this month. Is there a hard deadline to finish each scenario in its month?

  9. #59

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    Not really Peter, it just has more of a community spirit when we can suffer together ! Experience also tells us that once people lag they can find it hard to catch back up, hence the three month cut off if we don't hear from them; I'm not chasing people up this time around.

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Not really Peter, it just has more of a community spirit when we can suffer together ! Experience also tells us that once people lag they can find it hard to catch back up, hence the three month cut off if we don't hear from them; I'm not chasing people up this time around.
    Ok, good. I will get to it after Doncaster and finishing up my Zep. Probably 2nd week in October.

  11. #61

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    Any news on a workable Zep card yet?

  12. #62

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    You are not alone in getting behind this month Peter, I don't have a weekend spare to play this month, and I have yet to start on my monstrous sausage!

  13. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbiggles View Post
    You are not alone in getting behind this month Peter, I don't have a weekend spare to play this month, and I have yet to start on my monstrous sausage!
    John, at least the scenario is there for whenever we can get to it. Just have to not get backlogged where we can't keep up.

  14. #64

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    Looking back on this one... I see a graphic showing the Zeppelin firing from the center line of it's base but the description says it fires from it's base edge. Which should it be? I played it from the edge at the text described.

  15. #65

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    Having reflected upon the question, I would use the base as you did, otherwise the Zep itself will suffer by being under the guns of the Ground fire for too long. I usually use center line to base, but find that with two centers holding up the Zep it gets messy. so for this scenario base to base seems easier to work out.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  16. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Having reflected upon the question, I would use the base as you did, otherwise the Zep itself will suffer by being under the guns of the Ground fire for too long. I usually use center line to base, but find that with two centers holding up the Zep it gets messy. so for this scenario base to base seems easier to work out.
    Rob.
    I don't think the ground fire would be the issue. I was thinking if you are supposed to fire from a center line (a line connecting the two centers/posts, the graphic is clear) an airplane could get shots in at the Zep while not being shot at since the Zep base is quite a bit larger than the plane's.

    The example I will use is from the side of a Zep to an approaching plane.
    If the Zep's base is 4" wide, so from the post/center line you would lose 2" firing out at a plane. An airplane is ~2 1/2" long, so it loses ~1 1/4" firing ahead from it's post. That leaves ~3/4" where the plane can hit the Zep but the Zep cannot hit back.

    Now going the other way, firing from the Zep's base edge, the Zep gets to fire ~1 1/4" before a plane can fire back. The Zep loses nothing in range but the plane is still firing from it's post.

    Hmmmm, which should it be? Should the planes have that small window of opportunity if firing from post to base? Would that reflect the large target is easier to hit? Or should the Zep gain the small edge firing from it's base edge, being a more stable platform for it's gunners to fire from?

    Just scratching my head on this... I have only played once with the Zeppelin where many of you have a lot more experience.

  17. #67

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    Surely if you fire base to base, both Zep and aircraft go out of or into range at the same moment Peter?
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  18. #68

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    Yes, if it's base to base. Isn't airplane fire from post to base? So Zep fighting is different, base to base to make it easier?
    Last edited by Teaticket; 11-05-2014 at 12:47.

  19. #69

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    Quite correct. It should be Peter , until the big birds like the Staaken kick in. Then the nonsense about range really shows up more because of the big bases. A fighter can hit a Staaken base from its post and hardly have to get into the close range area of return fire. So I decided a couple of years ago to make it base to base for the big birds, but this is only my way of making the problem simple. That was why I left Clipper's diagram alone. I would play it as best suits your own methodology. Until Ares introduce rules for airships it is easier to do what you think is most realistic to please you.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  20. #70

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    Finished this game last night! Brilliant fun and will probably play it again soon!

    I made one modification to the rules and that was if an aircraft started strafing the AA positions then the 1 ruler rule no longer applied and the 2 ruler range was used.

    Another thing, I know have 3x B damage decks.......... I used two in yesterdays game and WOW! IT does make a difference, well it did in this game!

  21. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by FarEast View Post
    Finished this game last night! Brilliant fun and will probably play it again soon!

    I made one modification to the rules and that was if an aircraft started strafing the AA positions then the 1 ruler rule no longer applied and the 2 ruler range was used.

    Another thing, I know have 3x B damage decks.......... I used two in yesterdays game and WOW! IT does make a difference, well it did in this game!
    When I started to strafe the ground positions I also let the AA shoot out to 2 ruler lengths. Only fair! And triple damage decks for me. Things can get bad quickly.

  22. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Quite correct. It should be Peter , until the big birds like the Staaken kick in. Then the nonsense about range really shows up more because of the big bases. A fighter can hit a Staaken base from its post and hardly have to get into the close range area of return fire. So I decided a couple of years ago to make it base to base for the big birds, but this is only my way of making the problem simple. That was why I left Clipper's diagram alone. I would play it as best suits your own methodology. Until Ares introduce rules for airships it is easier to do what you think is most realistic to please you.
    Rob.
    Good to see simplicity win out. I'll keep with this when I get my giant bombers flying.

  23. #73

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    Also did anyone else have the Zeppelin fire on the AA targets, I decided that due to altitude rules being halved that the Zeppelin could only fire at half range ruler length.
    (Looking back I think this might have been a cockup point, but I don't think the cards dealt changed the outcome at that point.)

  24. #74

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    I thought the Zep was too high for mg fire at the AA so I didn't.

    Can't wait for your report!

  25. #75

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    I didn't write in MG for that reason Peter.
    Just sorry it took me so long to get my reason for the base to base fire out.
    I'm sure this tooth infection ain't helping my thought process at present.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  26. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by FarEast View Post
    Finished this game last night! Brilliant fun and will probably play it again soon!

    I made one modification to the rules and that was if an aircraft started strafing the AA positions then the 1 ruler rule no longer applied and the 2 ruler range was used.

    Another thing, I know have 3x B damage decks.......... I used two in yesterdays game and WOW! IT does make a difference, well it did in this game!
    I also didn't fire on the AA until all Entente planes had been shot down. I figure we are there for escort until there are no more enemy scouts attacking. At that point I was needing something to do that could help the Zeppelin.

  27. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    I also didn't fire on the AA until all Entente planes had been shot down. I figure we are there for escort until there are no more enemy scouts attacking. At that point I was needing something to do that could help the Zeppelin.
    I went about things slightly different - but like I said as soon as a plane started shooting the ground defenses they were able to fire at full range - Pro's and Con's I guess

  28. #78

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    I wasn't sure how to go about it. Should I try to help defeat the enemy scouts first or go straight for the AA? Would I really know it was there until fired upon? I figured helping fight the scouts first was my priority mission. After the scouts were gone and seeing where the AA were firing from then they were fair game. Could easily have backfired. As it was I just barely squeeked by.

  29. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    Yes, if it's base to base. Isn't airplane fire from post to base? So Zep fighting is different, base to base to make it easier?
    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Quite correct. It should be Peter , until the big birds like the Staaken kick in. Then the nonsense about range really shows up more because of the big bases....Rob.
    I shoot from peg to peg for aircraft - which makes it a little harder to get kills - but from peg to base against balloons and peg to model for Zeps due to their size, for fire from the Zep I did model to peg. With big base aircraft I tend to shoot to the peg or gunners position 'dot' as they tend to be on the centre line. Things can get a little tight/close from time to time but it works, one day I will get round to alleviating that issue with a longer ruler as Andrea intended.

    "He is wise who watches"

  30. #80

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    I have a ruler and a half made from dowel for the zeppelins. But found that just using the base as a target works fine too.

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    I shoot from peg to peg for aircraft - which makes it a little harder to get kills - but from peg to base against balloons and peg to model for Zeps due to their size, for fire from the Zep I did model to peg. With big base aircraft I tend to shoot to the peg or gunners position 'dot' as they tend to be on the centre line. Things can get a little tight/close from time to time but it works, one day I will get round to alleviating that issue with a longer ruler as Andrea intended.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  31. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    I wasn't sure how to go about it. Should I try to help defeat the enemy scouts first or go straight for the AA? Would I really know it was there until fired upon? I figured helping fight the scouts first was my priority mission. After the scouts were gone and seeing where the AA were firing from then they were fair game. Could easily have backfired. As it was I just barely squeeked by.
    But that's the beauty of this game, everyone's take is slightly different so we end up with many different stories based on the same idea. The as for attacking the AA from the beginning that could have spelt the end for a scout, 3 AA continuously firing on it would be devastating!

  32. #82

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    I am glad you said that James.
    I never write my scenarios to be proscriptive, but rather to give the bones of an enjoyable game.
    I am not a points checker by nature, nor do I care if a game is balanced unless it is written for you chaps.
    As you can see from my own AAR's I sometimes add an extra enemy or two just to give more of a challenge, especially if one of my opponents has gone down too early.
    Guess it comes from playing too much free kriegspiel in the formative years.
    As Alistair Crowley said, "do as you will is the whole of the law". I would add a rider to this however. As long as you have a knowledge of the subject to act as some guidelines.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  33. #83

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    I want to say more but I don't want to give the events away! Needless to say that this mission could go SO many different ways.

    As for the Zeppelin being able to fire as everything was halved, I assumed that the Zeppelin would be able to fire with one card of damage at short range with a gun in range of the target. I am certainly going to play this one again though.

  34. #84

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    At last I have managed to fly this mission, and without my usual catastrophic losses for once
    I will leave it for others to judge the eventual conclusion of this one, I will be writing it up over the weekend, as I am back to work this morning.
    Keeping two very lively four month old kittens out of the room was fun, but death by kitten was not in the scenario.

    Sadly I was unable to construct a 3D Zepplin, so this has been mostly 2D, with a little Alt for effect towards the end.

    Regarding losses, I still have to roll for the outcome for the pilots shot down and/or wounded, but any more info at this point would be a spoiler..........

  35. #85

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    Excellent news John, look forward to seeing how your chaps got on !

  36. #86

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    Sounds intriguing John. Can't wait to see the outcome in your AAR together with the pictures.

    Pictures of the kittens that is.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  37. #87

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    I'm making a new Zeppelin move/turn template. We (I) had been using the 'Change Bearing Template' but notice that the turn angles are not the same on both sides. To be correct with my new template I have a question. When turning the Zep, we turn it just one line from center right or left? 15 degrees?

    I will also have the move distance on the template so an XD card won't be necessary if you have a line marking the center of the long side of the Zep's base.

  38. #88

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    I will be following this with interest Peter.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  39. #89

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    If the Zepp has all engines working it can turn 1 or 2 segments. If it is down to 1-2 engines it may only turn 1. Hope this helps.

    Neil

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    I'm making a new Zeppelin move/turn template. We (I) had been using the 'Change Bearing Template' but notice that the turn angles are not the same on both sides. To be correct with my new template I have a question. When turning the Zep, we turn it just one line from center right or left? 15 degrees?

    I will also have the move distance on the template so an XD card won't be necessary if you have a line marking the center of the long side of the Zep's base.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  40. #90

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    Thanks Neil, big help. I wasn't sure how many turning angles were needed. 2 is the magic number. I'll have this done tomorrow.

  41. #91

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    The Zeppelin Movement Template is now in the files queue, house rules. 2 versions, black & white and color. I put them up as PDFs but have JPEGs if anyone prefers that.

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