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Thread: Epiphany!!!

  1. #101

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    The orange boxes in 1 and 12 have two straights and a reverse (They look like stalls but they're straights.

    That's correct to a certain point.
    If there is an orange box, you'll always start with the orange box. If you draw a straight, forget the orange box and go to the normal maneuvers. If you draw another maneuver, use it and forget the normal maneuvers.
    If a maneuver tells you to use a reverse, after the reverse the plane will have to use a straight unless he's an ace with the appropriate skill.

    The player will use the normal rules to choose his maneuvers.

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackronin View Post
    The orange boxes in 1 and 12 have two straights and a reverse (They look like stalls but they're straights.

    That's correct to a certain point.
    If there is an orange box, you'll always start with the orange box. If you draw a straight, forget the orange box and go to the normal maneuvers. If you draw another maneuver, use it and forget the normal maneuvers.
    If a maneuver tells you to use a reverse, after the reverse the plane will have to use a straight unless he's an ace with the appropriate skill.

    The player will use the normal rules to choose his maneuvers.
    Awesome! thanks Again. I was right the first time and then over thought it.

  3. #103

  4. #104

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    I already played more than 10 games using this system, and it simoly never fails! Tell me whats the name of this magical train Joaquim, because I want to travel in it some day.
    Thanks


    Nick

  5. #105

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    Down loaded and ready to fly,when I get the table back , or its going to be the Great Talvern Turkey Shoot


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  6. #106

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    I've just now had the chance to read through this thread and really take a look at the work done by Joaquim and Mike. Well done gentlemen!! I've also moved the file back to the House Rules section where most people would look for it.

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    I've just now had the chance to read through this thread and really take a look at the work done by Joaquim and Mike. Well done gentlemen!! I've also moved the file back to the House Rules section where most people would look for it.
    Thanks for these words and for the rep, Keith. You're most kind.

  8. #108

    RiotInferno's Avatar
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    John
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    I played my first game with this and only had 1 question:
    With this system, is the AI maneuver picked in real-time with what the player's plane is currently doing, or is it also picked 1 in advance like the player?

    Cheers!

  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by RiotInferno View Post
    I played my first game with this and only had 1 question:
    With this system, is the AI maneuver picked in real-time with what the player's plane is currently doing, or is it also picked 1 in advance like the player?

    Cheers!
    Hi John! The AI maneuver is picked in real time. You plot your plane's maneuver normally and then you play the AI plane maneuver and then you move the current card of your plane.

    1) Plot second maneuver for your planes;
    2) Choose in the chart what maneuver the AI planes will make;
    3) Move AI planes;
    4) Move Player's planes;
    5) Get back to 1).

    Cheers!

  10. #110

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    Joaquim, I want to say thank you again for this. I have been using this a lot over the last month and thoroughly enjoy it. on occasion I have added moves to certain areas (like 3 and 10) just to give some randomness (if that's a word) to the game (mainly for the "I didn't expect that move" element of the game). For example, for the 3 Oclock position I may add a straight or even a left maneuver. Your tool makes this very easy to do.

  11. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by RiotInferno View Post
    I played my first game with this and only had 1 question:
    With this system, is the AI maneuver picked in real-time with what the player's plane is currently doing, or is it also picked 1 in advance like the player?

    Cheers!
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackronin View Post
    Hi John! The AI maneuver is picked in real time. You plot your plane's maneuver normally and then you play the AI plane maneuver and then you move the current card of your plane.

    1) Plot second maneuver for your planes;
    2) Choose in the chart what maneuver the AI planes will make;
    3) Move AI planes;
    4) Move Player's planes;
    5) Get back to 1).

    Cheers!
    Joaquim,
    I looked this question over when I saw it, but awaited your response. Is this something we could amend on the Rules Page, for clarity?
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  12. #112

    RiotInferno's Avatar
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    John
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackronin View Post
    Hi John! The AI maneuver is picked in real time. You plot your plane's maneuver normally and then you play the AI plane maneuver and then you move the current card of your plane.

    1) Plot second maneuver for your planes;
    2) Choose in the chart what maneuver the AI planes will make;
    3) Move AI planes;
    4) Move Player's planes;
    5) Get back to 1).

    Cheers!
    Thanks for the clarification!

  13. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yenwing View Post
    Joaquim, I want to say thank you again for this. I have been using this a lot over the last month and thoroughly enjoy it. on occasion I have added moves to certain areas (like 3 and 10) just to give some randomness (if that's a word) to the game (mainly for the "I didn't expect that move" element of the game). For example, for the 3 Oclock position I may add a straight or even a left maneuver. Your tool makes this very easy to do.
    Thanks, Rodney, you're most kind. I'm happy that you can use them with pleasure.

  14. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    Joaquim,
    I looked this question over when I saw it, but awaited your response. Is this something we could amend on the Rules Page, for clarity?
    Indeed we can, Mike. It will make the chart reading more clear, don't you think?

  15. #115

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    All,
    Version 1.1 of the chart is in the files. Link to Chart File

    Adjusted the Area 12 and 1 Orange Box arrows for uniformity, and I reworded the Turn Description to incorporate Post #109 above.

    Let me know if this works better?
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  16. #116

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    Despite all the work with this, I haven't actually used the chart. Until today, when I was showing my college associate how it works, so they could do up an Android App based on the Companion Web App by John [RiotInferno] (A Companion for the Universal Solo Diceless Chart).

    This brought up a few issues, including could we add in which maneuver deck was being used, and other complications. Pilot skill levels were discussed, but that would be a bit much, as that will be determined by the Player. Unless someone has a different idea?

    If we wanted the ability to select a maneuver deck before selecting Area and Distance, then the special maneuvers would be automatically selected. Do you want that?

    I also noted that there are only 60 degree turns on the chart, with an occasional 90 degree option. What about 30 degree turns? Or is that not necessary?

    Let me know if there is issues to be considered, or modification that need doing to the chart and the app.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  17. #117

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    Dear Mike:

    There are no (unfortunately) 30º turns in the decks.
    As for pilot skills, I'll think about it.

    Waiting to see the app.

  18. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackronin View Post
    ...

    There are no (unfortunately) 30º turns in the decks.
    ...
    Joaquim,

    There are two different radius turns in most of the WWII decks I have, and Eric [7eat51] has 30 and 60 degree turns in his spread sheet: WGS Aircraft and Maneuver Deck Matrix

    So, we don't want the shallow turns in the AI app? Or is it unnecessary?

    Pilot skill will be hard to implement in the app. Hmmm...

    Unless you want a "Plane" sequencer, to help you keep track of which plane moves when, with the app picking moves when AI pilots come up? I could really use that, with, or without, AI pilots. I get soo confused running Con Demo Games, keeping track of who shot when, AA, coaching, fire, wounded pilots. etc...

    This might be worth looking at! I need that.

    So, input the number of planes, with a Human/AI selection (Make it flexible for spawns, if you want to give a plane to a human, or if the player leaves - to the AI). Put a small adhesive dot with a number on the applicable plane's stand to keep track.
    Put in Maneuver Deck for planes.
    Put in the pilot skill (have a button for "Wounded", that can be input any turn. See below, implement it there, instead).
    Start game sequence button.
    App cycles through each plane's turn sequence, giving "Area/Distance/Engage" for the AI plane(s) as appropriate.
    End of all plane moves, before planning, allow for "Wounded", "Shot Down/Flamed out" ("Left Table"?), "Spawn"/Change "Human/AI" selection.

    Ooh! Nice, perhaps? Comments or suggestions?

    PS: Output file for AAR? Email or save onto USB/SD card?

    PPS: AA sequencer? Not sure where to input this, and how to place it in the sequence, so HELP!
    Input at the beginning, if AA will be playing.
    At the end of turn screen, when choosing other Pilot/Plane changes, choose "AA SHOOT"
    Plot AA shots on the table.
    Sequencer tells you when the shots go off at the appropriate time! End of the next maneuver phase (two moves later)?

    With this, AA only shows up when you select that you are shooting. It would be a button on a screen.
    Maybe just put the button on the end of turn screen, and it is always there, just in case.


    PPPS: Somebody, help rein in the idea hamster!
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 03-11-2015 at 09:22. Reason: AA sequence idea added
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  19. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackronin View Post
    Dear Mike:

    There are no (unfortunately) 30º turns in the decks.
    As for pilot skills, I'll think about it.

    Waiting to see the app.
    All DoW/WGS fighters have a set of 30 degree and 45 degree turns. The big thing with the Spitfire Mk.IX was the 60 degree turn.
    The irritating thing about the I deck (dive bombers) is the lack of a 30 degree turn.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  20. #120

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    All,
    I have put up a Turn Sequence suggestion for the WGS - A companion for the Universal Solo Diceless Chart.

    Reading this thread, I think I already messed it up. But, I need your help in sequencing the App. Please look at the sequence in the linked post, and criticizes, kick holes in it, laugh at it, whatever. But tell me what I need to fix. Someone's college project depends on our input.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  21. #121

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    Very nice work all, I hope everyone appreciates all the hard work you must all have put in on it!

  22. #122

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    Just to say again, these rules are just too good, or I'm just too bad. Just today both my I16's have been blasted out of the sky by two 109's controlled by these rules. Fantastic work folks, Best solo rules for any game anywhere I think.

  23. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dowters View Post
    Just to say again, these rules are just too good, or I'm just too bad. Just today both my I16's have been blasted out of the sky by two 109's controlled by these rules. Fantastic work folks, Best solo rules for any game anywhere I think.
    Thanks Nigel.
    You're most kind.

  24. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dowters View Post
    Just to say again, these rules are just too good, or I'm just too bad. Just today both my I16's have been blasted out of the sky by two 109's controlled by these rules. Fantastic work folks, Best solo rules for any game anywhere I think.
    Yeah, just 'cos the enemy are AI controlled it doesn't make you bullet proof - earlier versions have been shooting me down over the trenches for years now !!

    "He is wise who watches"

  25. #125

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    Let's all pitch in for another long railway trip and see what he comes up with next. This should be encouraged!

  26. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB401 View Post
    Let's all pitch in for another long railway trip and see what he comes up with next. This should be encouraged!
    Thanks for the confidence in me and my skills, Bob.
    Maybe the plane trip to Prague will help.

  27. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Yeah, just 'cos the enemy are AI controlled it doesn't make you bullet proof - earlier versions have been shooting me down over the trenches for years now !!
    My Pilot roster for OTT bares witness to the lethality of Herkybirds and Blackronins charts.
    Last edited by tikkifriend; 02-25-2016 at 10:05.


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  28. #128

    BrianLas
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    I have used this a handful of times and really enjoy it. I did have a question though, what happens when the AI plane takes damage that prevents it from performing a maneuver. For instance, if the AI gets rudder jammed and the closest plane is at 3 within a ruler, what do you do? Or if the AI plane has engine damage and you get a reverse?

    Thanks!

  29. #129

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    ...as far a s I know, the AI ignores special damage except fire & explosions.
    Voilà le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  30. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianLas View Post
    I have used this a handful of times and really enjoy it. I did have a question though, what happens when the AI plane takes damage that prevents it from performing a maneuver. For instance, if the AI gets rudder jammed and the closest plane is at 3 within a ruler, what do you do? Or if the AI plane has engine damage and you get a reverse?

    Thanks!
    Hi Brian.
    I also use the special damage.
    What I do is:

    1) Do the next possible maneuver allowed;
    2) In the case of a reverse I'll do a straight maneuver;
    3) Do the maneuver if it makes sense and give an A damage card to the plane.

    I hope it clarified it for you!

  31. #131

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    Joaquim glad to see you back you've been away for awhile.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  32. #132

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    I am also glad to hear from my dear friend.
    Two good things in one day. The other of which I will tell you later.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  33. #133

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    Hey Joaquim long time no see.


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  34. #134

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    One single post here and you've got 3 Engländers at your six.
    Voilà le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  35. #135

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    Thank you my friends.
    I'm still here.

  36. #136

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    Very glad to see you are still around. It would be nice to hear from you more often.

  37. #137

  38. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackronin View Post
    I will try Peter!
    Find him "guilty"!

    Great to see you posting again, Joaquim!
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  39. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    Find him "guilty"!

    Great to see you posting again, Joaquim!
    Guilty as charged!
    Thanks Tim!

  40. #140

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    Re the solo rules, It is - at least in my version-- easier to keep track of if solo planes if you ignore damage except the BANG result, I always felt not having solo planes take special damage also gives them an edge, to counter the lack of player initiative an AI system suffers from.
    If you want to keep track of special damage, the suggestions above are all good.

  41. #141

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    Hoping to start punching out my WGS counters soon (now that I have appropriated appropriate coloured cups with lids for the damage chits)
    I will get this chart printed off and give it a try in the next few weeks.

    Welcome back, Joaquim - it's been too long.

  42. #142

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    I'm almost done with a chart that uses dice instead of shuffling decks. I love the Universal system but don't like the multi shuffles per plane. The chart uses two d10 for maneuvers and a d6 for speed. I hope to have it finished this weekend. Yes, I know those that hate dice will see this as heresy but I want to cut down the time it takes to pick all the AI cards.

  43. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    I want to cut down the time it takes to pick all the AI cards.
    I am going to adapt the Excel system I based on Dave's D8 charts and come up with something that will handle this as well, including the speed selection.
    But in the meantime, I'll give the chart a try to get my feet wet at last. Joaquim's diceless cards got me started two years ago with WGF.


    I do like the idea of 2 x D10 though ...

  44. #144

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    Good grief that means I will have to try and locate my old D10s.

    I am just going out. I may be some time.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  45. #145

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    I like the card system developed by Joaquim but there again I have the luxury of a permanent table and no haste to finish games once started.

    Love to see other systems and how they compare though.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  46. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skafloc View Post
    I like the card system developed by Joaquim but there again I have the luxury of a permanent table and no haste to finish games once started.

    Love to see other systems and how they compare though.
    I think Joaquim's Universal system is genius. You can pick cards for the AI planes and not know what they have face down. The only thing I don't like is the shuffle 3 cards, on two of them you shuffle a new set of cards to find the AI card for the pick. Sometimes you only shuffle once. Having to pick through the cards to get the ones to shuffle takes too much time for me. Having to do this for every card is a bit much.

    All I am doing is taking his system and making it into a chart to roll on. Each card(or sequence) has the same odds of coming up as with the original system. I am going with two d10s as it's not simple enough to get by on one die. Some picks are between 3 cards where a d6 would be fine but others are quite complicated. Rolling two d10 for percentile and a d6 for speed works out nicely. I'll post this to the files this weekend.

  47. #147

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    Took your percentile dice idea and made a quick Excel version.
    Now I just have to add an automatic speed selector.

    Didn't take as long as I had expected - probably because you only need to plan one card and not three in combination like the WGF version.

    --------------------------------------
    Speed is done.

    Chomping at the bit to try this out ...


    But WGF Over the Trenches Mission 14: A Hard Day's Night is on the table.
    Last edited by Stumptonian; 08-19-2017 at 11:11. Reason: added footnote

  48. #148

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    Quim, oh Quim...
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  49. #149

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    I seperate the decks into colours and then into segments that way I only have a few cards to pick up and shuffle, no sorting out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    I think Joaquim's Universal system is genius. You can pick cards for the AI planes and not know what they have face down. The only thing I don't like is the shuffle 3 cards, on two of them you shuffle a new set of cards to find the AI card for the pick. Sometimes you only shuffle once. Having to pick through the cards to get the ones to shuffle takes too much time for me. Having to do this for every card is a bit much.

    All I am doing is taking his system and making it into a chart to roll on. Each card(or sequence) has the same odds of coming up as with the original system. I am going with two d10s as it's not simple enough to get by on one die. Some picks are between 3 cards where a d6 would be fine but others are quite complicated. Rolling two d10 for percentile and a d6 for speed works out nicely. I'll post this to the files this weekend.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  50. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skafloc View Post
    I seperate the decks into colours and then into segments that way I only have a few cards to pick up and shuffle, no sorting out.
    I have done that too. There are sectors where you pick from three cards, then depending on what card picked you may have to put 4-5 different cards into another deck to shuffle to pick again. Doing this for 5-6 planes every turn for me is too consuming. I love that you can do this and keep the final chosen card secret from you but I think a dice chart will be much quicker. I have just uploaded it to the WW2 House Rules.

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