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Thread: British Nieuports

  1. #1

    Default British Nieuports

    When the Nieuport 17 mini was released I was a little disappointed that a British variant, particularly Albert Ball's plane, was not chosen. Since the Nieuport 17 seems to have been used as much by the British as the French during the mid years of the war, and I don't see any minis of British built aircraft of that period being released anytime in the near future, I thought it would be nice to have some British Nieuports to take on the German Albatros. With the new decals being released soon, I was thinking of taking on some repaints. It will be a tight fit but I think the British wing roundel will work on the upper wing of the Nieuport. The roundel intended for the side will work on the lower wing of the Nieuport. I believe the British only used wing mounted guns on their Nieuports. It seems that I read that somewhere and the illustrations I have seen support that. If so it appears that Lufbery's Nieuport would be best plane to use. The gun over the cowling looks like it could be popped off and the silver color would be appropriate. Any comments or suggestions?

  2. #2

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    I can tell you that the roundel on the N&L decals set is the same size (7mm) as the ones on Ni 17 from series 3. There is no side roundel on my sheet, so it will not fit on the lower wing.



    Humm, looks like that the RNAS did not use side roundels all the time, but the RFC seems to have used them nearly 100% of the time. Maybe I should remove some of the large roundels and make a few smaller ones?

  3. #3

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    My mistake on the small roundel. I was thinking of repaints other than the Nieuport that would need them and the only one I could think of was the SPAD XIII. I believe there was only one British squadron of those. But then Nexus dedicated one SE5a mini to the only US squadron to use it and that squadron was virtually inactive. It seems that when the Morane is released, one variant would be British, so none would be needed there. Perhaps a future decal set could be done that is dedicated to the British Nieuport and the aces that flew them such as Ball, Mannock, and Bishop.

  4. #4

    Dom S's Avatar
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    Perhaps a future decal set could be done that is dedicated to the British Nieuport and the aces that flew them such as Ball, Mannock, and Bishop.
    I suspect such a thing might be quite well advanced, somewhere or other....

  5. #5

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    You can get British Roundels from Skytrex. They have worked quite well for me.

  6. #6

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    Bobby,

    I've done a repaint on a Nieuport to represent Ball's machine, using Dom's decals. If I remember correctly, the lower wing roundel came from the 1/600 range.

    I used a spinner from an Albatros (converted to an OAW version so didn't need the spinner for it). The only real difficulty was removing the MG with a scalpel, without simultaneously removing struts and the top of my finger - success on the first, epic fail on the second.
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guntruck View Post
    Bobby,

    I've done a repaint on a Nieuport to represent Ball's machine, using Dom's decals. If I remember correctly, the lower wing roundel came from the 1/600 range.

    I used a spinner from an Albatros (converted to an OAW version so didn't need the spinner for it). The only real difficulty was removing the MG with a scalpel, without simultaneously removing struts and the top of my finger - success on the first, epic fail on the second.
    Yes I used Dom's decals for my Ball Nieuport too, and printed the tail registration number on plain transfer sheet. The lettering was from Foxe's transfers. The new sheets coming out should help to avoid all this messing about.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  8. #8

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    I still hope to be able to make repaints of the actual models, sooner or later. If we will ever do that with the Ni.17, Ball will be in. Promised.

    In the meantime, a revised Deluxe with repainted Series 1 planes will be issued within weeks. For the British, there will be a new Camel (a certain Brown being the pilot).

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    In the meantime, a revised Deluxe with repainted Series 1 planes will be issued within weeks. For the British, there will be a new Camel (a certain Brown being the pilot).

    Roy Brown was a Canadian.

    We Brits are still under represented in a big way.

    Sings:

    It wasn't the Yanks that won the war
    Parlez-vous
    It wasn't the Yanks that won the war
    Parlez-vous
    It wasn't the Yanks that won the war -
    The RFC was there before,
    Inky-pinky parlez-vous

    In fact I also discovered this page with a load more (some of them even quite good)http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/dr...ol-1/index.htm

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    I still hope to be able to make repaints of the actual models, sooner or later. If we will ever do that with the Ni.17, Ball will be in. Promised.

    In the meantime, a revised Deluxe with repainted Series 1 planes will be issued within weeks. For the British, there will be a new Camel (a certain Brown being the pilot).
    That will be great Angiolillo. You always come up with the goods. As I have said before Ball coming fro 2 miles from where I was born has always been my idol.
    Now I will have a pair of them!
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  11. #11

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    Well don't take it for granmted. And it can also take many, many months before we can see a Ball's Ni.17...

    By the way, if you make one stay tuned. There can be a repaint contest very soon with nice prizes, if all goes well.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlgyLacey View Post
    Roy Brown was a Canadian.
    True, sorry. I meant that it was a British Camel, referring to the plane, since we were speaking of British Nieuports referring to the plane too. But you are very correct about the pilot.

    My actual plan was to release the model with two different plane cards, one with the name of Brown and one with the name of Olivier William Redgate who actually flew the very same plane (serial B7270), scored victories on it and was actually British:

    http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/england/redgate.php

    As I wanted to put two pilot cards on the D.Va in the same set, opne for each of the pilots (as we did for the Lafayette's Ni.17, featuring both the US pilot Lufbery and the French commander of the unit). Production problems prevented this and Brown prevailed, thanks to just a single very famous victory.

    Anyway you can still use the miniature for a British pilot (16 victories on Camels - two on B7270 - and a Distinguished Flying Cross - not bad at all) with no need to repaint anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlgyLacey View Post
    We Brits are still under represented in a big way.
    I agree with you, I'm serious. It does not help having dull color schemes, all the same, and a lot of non-British people in your air services.

    Then I must also say that Canadians say the same of themselves (even if they already have several single- and two-seat models, and even more plane cards). Frenchmen too, even in official reviews on magazines. And most of the other non-German players, probably, think or say the same...
    Last edited by Angiolillo; 08-26-2010 at 05:57.

  12. #12

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    [QUOTE=Angiolillo;24281]Well don't take it for granmted. And it can also take many, many months before we can see a Ball's Ni.17...

    By the way, if you make one stay tuned. There can be a repaint contest very soon with nice prizes, if all goes well.

    I'm in no hurry Angiolillo. here is one I made earlier for me to be going on with.
    Rob.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Albert Ball.jpg  
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  13. #13

  14. #14

    Default Allow me to show you my Ball's

    ...Nieuport 17, and a repaint of Mannock's. Unlike Rob, I really couldn't be a***d to print off my own serials
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guntruck View Post
    ...Nieuport 17, and a repaint of Mannock's. Unlike Rob, I really couldn't be a***d to print off my own serials
    And a very well made pair you have too.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  16. #16

    Dom S's Avatar
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    I'm not sure we need any more photos of people's Balls....

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dom S View Post
    I'm not sure we need any more photos of people's Balls....
    Why ever not Dom. Albert Ball was a very singular person.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guntruck View Post
    ...Nieuport 17, and a repaint of Mannock's. Unlike Rob, I really couldn't be a***d to print off my own serials
    Is the N.17 in silver with the no 4 Mannock? Is that a Dom decal number and rondell? Is the white outline correct? Who has the right size for Ball's N.17 wing rondell? Does the top wing of either plane have a white outline? Nice Models! Thanks! ~Tim

  19. #19

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    As for British Neuport 17 & 23 I don't see that we realy need them, especially if you just want to make basic generic versions all you need are details changed. This is what I have done and a simple conversion has turned into a nice model.

  20. #20

    Dom S's Avatar
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    Is the N.17 in silver with the no 4 Mannock?
    Yes.
    Is that a Dom decal number and rondell?
    Roundel possibly, number no, although I do have something oddly similar on the workbench.
    Is the white outline correct?
    Yes, also correct that the white outline is only on the fuselage, not the wings too.
    Who has the right size for Ball's N.17 wing rondell?
    Probably me - my roundel sheets have 4mm, 5mm, 6mm, 7mm, 8mm, 9mm and 10mm diameters, so I'm willing to guess that at worst I've got one within .5mm of the right size....
    Does the top wing of either plane have a white outline?
    I don't think so for Ball, but don't have a photo handy to check. Definite no for Mannock. (Indeed the one photo I have clearly showing Mannock's wings has a 1/3/5 ratio (ie. normal British, no white outline) roundel on the port wing, and a 1/2/3 (ie. French style, with a much bigger centre dot) on the starboard - usually indicative of a replacement mainplane.
    Nice Models!
    They are rather, aren't they....

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Pray View Post
    Is the N.17 in silver with the no 4 Mannock? Is that a Dom decal number and rondell? Is the white outline correct? Who has the right size for Ball's N.17 wing rondell? Does the top wing of either plane have a white outline? Nice Models! Thanks! ~Tim
    Thanks Dom. My Threepennyworth:

    Lower wing roundel came from Dom's 1/600 decal sets. The number 4 is actually from Dom's 15mm British tank turret numbers set. The white outline is correct. I used Cross & Cockade's British Nieuport as a reference source, which shows no white outline to the wing for either.

    Thanks for the compliments chaps,

    Steve (who is confused as he thought he responded to these Q's at about 9:30 this morning )
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  22. #22

    Dom S's Avatar
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    The number 4 is actually from Dom's 15mm British tank turret numbers set.
    Oops, and I didn't even recognise it - forgot I had the blue ones in the British range.... No outline on the wing is spot on - as well as the colour plates there's a lovely photo on page 54 of the C&C British Nieuports book. I think I'll do my Mannock as per the photo on page 116, with the 4 repeated on the wing, just left of centre. (The squadron seem to have been erratic about that - presumably the numbers on the wing were a late addition, as the same aircraft can be seen both with and without them in different photos.)

  23. #23

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    This will sound like a Team America soundbyte but... I like your Balls........!

    "He is wise who watches"

  24. #24

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    I've done myself a flight of British Nieuport 17s using Dom's roundels and letraset lettering. I know they are not strictly accurate, but I'm happy with them.





    An unfortunate case of matt varnish turning white is all too eveident on the two front planes.
    Last edited by tonyc206; 10-25-2010 at 07:59.

  25. #25

    Default

    I feel I must draw your attention, Gentlemen, to the following resource, which I have found quite useful for such matters...

    http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur...:1&um=1&itbs=1

    The main menu will let you search through Squardron and Aircraft Types.

    Hope this is some use to you all.

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post
    I feel I must draw your attention, Gentlemen, to the following resource, which I have found quite useful for such matters...

    http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur...:1&um=1&itbs=1

    The main menu will let you search through Squardron and Aircraft Types.

    Hope this is some use to you all.
    Thanks. Looks a very useful site for several things.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  27. #27

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    I dunno if anyone needed a custom for all those Nieuports...

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max Headroom View Post
    I dunno if anyone needed a custom for all those Nieuports...
    Yes Max I did. Unfortunately I needed one in silver with British roundels. I'm sure that some of the other members will like your offering though.
    Thanks. Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  29. #29

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    You still need one Rob? Send me a top-down photo of the plane and I'll knock one up.
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guntruck View Post
    You still need one Rob? Send me a top-down photo of the plane and I'll knock one up.
    Thanks for the offer Steve. I will have to wait until the decals arrive from Dom. Then I'll photograph it. Will it be better for you against a white background?
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  31. #31

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    Most British ones were only single MG I think so needs a 'B' gun too

  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyc206 View Post
    Most British ones were only single MG I think so needs a 'B' gun too
    Although most British aircraft sported the overwing Lewis, some also had the French Alkan design mounting of a Vickers gun on the fuselarge Having experienced the single wing mounted Lewis with my Albert Ball Model, you can guess which one I'm going for next. That will suprise my opponents who have got used to me only subjecting them to B damage.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Although most British aircraft sported the overwing Lewis, some also had the French Alkan design mounting of a Vickers gun on the fuselarge Having experienced the single wing mounted Lewis with my Albert Ball Model, you can guess which one I'm going for next. That will suprise my opponents who have got used to me only subjecting them to B damage.
    Rob.
    Do you mean like this:


  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyc206 View Post
    Do you mean like this:

    Yes exactly like that except for a blue 6 on the upper right wing.It is going to be for E Mannock of 40 sqd.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Yes exactly like that except for a blue 6 on the upper right wing.It is going to be for E Mannock of 40 sqd.
    Rob.
    Like this then (Yes I can change the font if you know which one you want).


  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Thanks for the offer Steve. I will have to wait until the decals arrive from Dom. Then I'll photograph it. Will it be better for you against a white background?
    Rob.
    Yeah I know, he's flaming slow sending stuff out, you have to wait for days sometimes

    White should be OK, but as it's a silver jobbie for preference a light colour that contrasts with silver might be better, as it's easier to separate the background. I've got a pale blue card that does the trick, so something along those lines.
    Last edited by Guntruck; 11-02-2010 at 15:07. Reason: My brain hurts and I want to go to bed.
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyc206 View Post
    Like this then (Yes I can change the font if you know which one you want).
    Looks fine to me .Thanks.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyc206 View Post
    An unfortunate case of matt varnish turning white is all too eveident on the two front planes.
    Tony, I'd say this isn't too unfortunate- there's a notion that the aluminum paint went duller over time, so you've got a realistic effect there.
    best regards
    Aris K.

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akosion View Post
    Tony, I'd say this isn't too unfortunate- there's a notion that the aluminum paint went duller over time, so you've got a realistic effect there.
    best regards
    Aris K.
    Cool. That works for me. Thanks

  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyc206 View Post
    An unfortunate case of matt varnish turning white is all too eveident on the two front planes.
    Anyone a notion as to why this happens. For years I've used Games Workshop Matt with no problem. Last winter I suddenly started getting this problem. Thought it was a bad can, so got my next one at the Nottingham head office. Still no joy. I fancied it must be a temprature thing, so brought my can in from the workshop to let it get warmewr indoors. Still no joy. No such problem with gloss varnish. Any ideas chaps?
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  41. #41

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    I'm now thinking that it is a combination of both temperature and mixing time. I recently used the same can again as I did on these, but like you Rob, I brought it in to the house the day before and then made sure that I shook the can for at least 3 minutes before spraying and it seemed to work.

    I came to this conclusion after the last bad spray incident, when I used spome Vallejo matt from the bottle that had been lying around for a while and it had clumps of white stuff in it that spread out and dryed OK after a little work. I think the matting agent clogs up together when it's left standing and for the white film if not completely re-mixed and the colde the temperature the longer it takes to mix properly.

    That's my current theory anyway. Try it and let me know what happens.

  42. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Anyone a notion as to why this happens. For years I've used Games Workshop Matt with no problem. Last winter I suddenly started getting this problem. Thought it was a bad can, so got my next one at the Nottingham head office. Still no joy. I fancied it must be a temprature thing, so brought my can in from the workshop to let it get warmewr indoors. Still no joy. No such problem with gloss varnish. Any ideas chaps?
    Rob.
    I've only got this problem with my last can of Citadel spray varnish, having used this stuff for years. I tried this can in various temperatures (where I haven't had this problem before) so I don't think temperature is a major factor. I think it is more a case of a duff batch. I gave the affected aircraft a coat of Winsor & Newton acrylic matt varnish which, for reasons unbeknownst to me, resolved the problem.

    I've since been using Testors Dullcote which works fine, if a little difficult to get hold of over here. Dullcote comes out really matt, but I don't mind this personally.
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  43. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyc206 View Post
    I'm now thinking that it is a combination of both temperature and mixing time. I recently used the same can again as I did on these, but like you Rob, I brought it in to the house the day before and then made sure that I shook the can for at least 3 minutes before spraying and it seemed to work.


    That's my current theory anyway. Try it and let me know what happens.
    Thanks Tony. I will give it more of a shake. I have only done the statuary two minutes so will give it the three you suggest. To think, we had a mixing machine whwer I used to work. That could take the work out of it. Must get a vibrating plate.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  44. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Must get a vibrating plate.
    Rob.
    Why? They must be so difficult to eat off -

  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyc206 View Post
    Why? They must be so difficult to eat off -
    Don't notice the difference when you have the shakes from the drink.
    Kyte.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  46. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Don't notice the difference when you have the shakes from the drink.
    Kyte.
    or Parkiison's. Just got to get the shakes in synch and remember not to have the garden peas

  47. #47

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    What color should I use for the underside of an Albert Ball Nieuport?

  48. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niclas View Post
    What color should I use for the underside of an Albert Ball Nieuport?
    It is the usual British light buff colour, just the same as the Camels.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  49. #49

  50. #50

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    Fellow Nieuport repainters,

    When you guys attached the roundels for the underside of the upper wing - Did first remove the struts and then punch them through the roundel after it was applied, or did you cut round the struts on the roundel?

    /Niclas

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