Ares Games

View Poll Results: Flat mats or 3D terrain board/table

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  • Flat gaming mat

    38 92.68%
  • 3D terrain gaming board/table

    3 7.32%
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Thread: Flat mats or 3D gaming table?

  1. #1

    Default Flat mats or 3D gaming table?

    OK I am wanting to see what you all game on to see whether or not a flat printed gaming mat is used or more of the 3D terrain boards/tables.

    As i am undecided on which option to go for. Flat mats are good for ease of use but the 3D terrain adds so much more to the visual aspect of the game.

    So let me know also post pics/links of what your using.

    Alan

  2. #2

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    Flat, because 3D, although looks better, impedes movement. And to move planes smoothly you don't want any interference. Also, when you look from above, ground usually looks flat.

  3. #3

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    I would have to say flat. For the ease of play. But my good friend Randy is thinking about using his pool table and make a 3-D landscape then place Plexiglas over it. Now that would be cool.

    Thomas

  4. #4

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    Flat mat for easier play, safe stand of the bases and better placement of the movement cards.
    Voilà le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  5. #5

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    Flat mats are much easier to play as the guys above said.
    Besides, bombing missions for example are pretty difficult, as the target is 3D and you can't fly above it
    Thanks


    Nick
    Last edited by Barkmann; 08-20-2014 at 10:44.

  6. #6

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    Pretty much knew the response but I guess I was hoping some one out there had tried to make 3D terrain that would work with WGS/WGF.

    After chatting with my opponent my Son who's call sign is Biscuit (NB: don't ask me how he got that nick it was his mother.) he decided I needed to invest in not one but two gaming mats. After a quick chat with my Flag I have ordered in two mats. The City and Coastal versions. [sort of helped I still had some store credit.]

    Will get a couple of country side mats latter on. But these two should do for now.

    thx for the in put guys much appreciated.

    Alan

  7. #7

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    for most games im all about as 3D of an effect as i can get (battletech for instance), but for wgf/wgs due to the nature of movement and how much of the faced paced spontaneity would have to be given up to do 3D terrain id go with flat landscape mats.

  8. #8

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    I think that is where my issue lies.

    All of my other games have massive amounts of 3D terrain and the idea of have a flat mat sort of feels (sorry about the pun) a bit flat.

    I used to own some of the mats back in the day when I did Wings of War WWI and I found them to be fine.

    I guess I'll just have to be satisfied with adding in 3D tanks, AA guns, etc to add some flavour to the mats.

    Alan
    Last edited by Greywolf; 07-25-2014 at 00:54.

  9. #9

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    Flat mat as others have said and same reason, ease of play.
    That is not to say that 3d targets have not been used.
    Take a look at Scafloc's Pacific games with the ships and buildings which can be moved out of the way for the base of aircraft

  10. #10

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    What Chris stated.
    Only flat mats, but 3D targets are welcome. Personally I used Axis&Allies War at Sea ships which scale very well with WoG minis IMHO.
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  11. #11

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    I use 3d targets whenever I can. after all that is what the planes and balloons are.
    As long as you do what happens when planes overlap, and have a card under the target you can remove the item at the last minute, deliver your strike and then put the 3d item back.
    So the short answer to your original question Alan is, yes but limited to easily removable objects such as Birnam Wood.
    This also raises the question of scale of objects as seen from different altitudes, but I believe there is a thread on that somewhere else.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  12. #12

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    I use some antiaircraft guns mounted in trucks, easy to move but mat flat

  13. #13

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    Flat mats. What Rob said. Some 3d pieces can ad to the look but too many will hinder play.

  14. #14

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    Rob that was going to be my next question.

    What scale 3D terrain do you use for objectives/targets/AA guns?

    1/285 (6mm) ,10mm or 15mm scale?

    Alan

  15. #15

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    I haven't played on a 3d surface, but it sounds difficult to manage. It's hard enough to sort things out when the plane bases overlap.

    I also prefer the older commercial mats because they have a more neutral color scheme (though I agree the logos are overdone). The newer mats are great in that there are more of them and you can create a larger contiguous surface in several configurations, but I find they're too high-contrast and dark, making it a little harder to see the planes. I'd also like to see a release of pure water mats, though I suppose one can make do with the SoG mats (even if they seem marked with odd linework not pertinent to WoG).

    I've also played on raw plywood, which lacks visual appeal, and the mats seem easier on the cards too.

    I've seen people have had photographs printed on some kind of banner surface, which I take to be plastic-y. Is that how they are and how do they work in practice? Do they lie flat? Are they slippery?
    Last edited by Savoir Faire; 07-25-2014 at 05:53.

  16. #16

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    I use the Ares flat playing mats. I prefer this because:

    1- I can roll them up and bring them to another gaming location with relative ease

    2- I can roll them up the mats for easy storage

    3- I like to support Ares so they continue to make more Wings Of Glory products

  17. #17

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    I use a mixture of the 2 . As Andrzej said in his post Axis and Allies ships are spot on for giving that extra look , and trucks/tanks etc are good for either war scenarios. The old flock for the clouds comes in handy as well :


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  18. #18

    Default

    Wow I'm first to vote for the obvious minority side of this poll! LOL!

    Hi I've played mostly on various flat laminated aerial photos and I am disappointed with the way everything slips around. I have embarked on making a low relief 3D board made using from an EVA rubber mat. First it started as a simple painted on farmland project but it wasn't looking very good, so I started adding Woodland Scenics coloured flock and then I added the little hedge rows and then the forests made from clumped foliage. It looks really good so far and I have done a fair bit of testing with what I have so far done and it doesn't really impede play. The models bases do sit a little uneven when placed over the details but I still use original bases and the hollow area underneath works well to keep everything stable.

    image.jpg
    image.jpg
    image.jpg
    image.jpg

    I have nearly finished the second quarter now, I hope to get it completed sooner, but real life is putting a few barriers in front of me at the moment. When its finished I will write up an AAR and I'll tell you how it played. I'm also looking at purchasing some 3mm Pico buildings soon to add a sense of scale to the model.
    Last edited by Roger Wilco; 07-25-2014 at 15:38.

  19. #19

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    Absolutely fantastic Trevor . Well done that man . Only wish i could play a mission over there with you using the mats.


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  20. #20

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    Thanks Paul, I can't wait to play a game on them either. I am hoping to get some more work done on them tomorrow afternoon.

  21. #21

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    Depends on the height that I'm flying, but as a rule 144 for low level or balloon attacks.
    200 for most other and just the cards for WWII bombing missions. 200 for airfield strafing including manned M/c guns, trains and armoured vehicles.
    Ships are anything between 1200 and 300 depending on the scenario. Basically what looks about right when photographed.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  22. #22

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    Love the look of the 3-D landscape Trevor!

    I have the standard 3 mats which I supplement with the inevitable blue felt when extra sea space is needed. Targets are provided by the standard WoW/WoG target cards, with Topside minis providing the naval targets.

  23. #23

    Exclamation

    Well I always use flat mats. Usually the Ares/Nexus ones but also have special ones for WW2.
    It really depends on the scenario.
    I have War at Sea models for Convoy/Ship attack & harbour pieces etc that add tremendously to the atmosphere of the game but you need a template or such to be able to move the 3D object to enable aircraft to overfly.
    Couple of examples attached.

    AAR 023.JPG Views: 184 Size: 165.4 KB">Sleeping Giant AAR 023.JPGBBS7 another kill.jpg

  24. #24

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    I love the use of the ship minis and harbour models from War at Sea, Barry.

  25. #25

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    Trevor now that is what I was hoping to see. Very functional and doesn't impact the game.

    Very cool love to see how your 6mm town comes together.

    Alan

  26. #26

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    Trevor,

    That is an amazing landscape. Please continue to keep us updated on your progress. I certainly want to see more pictures of the terrain!

    Thanks.

  27. #27

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    I have just finished another section of my 3D gaming board and have posted some more pictures for your viewing pleasure.

    Cheers
    Trevor

    image.jpg

    image.jpg
    Last edited by Roger Wilco; 07-27-2014 at 01:00.

  28. #28

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    That landscape looks great. I do use 3-D props. Such as these Radar towers.

    DSCF2845 (800x600).jpgDSCF2846 (800x600).jpgDSCF2847 (800x600).jpgDSCF2848 (800x600).jpg

    I also have an island that Brian made for me. I will try to find it and put some pics up.

    Thomas

  29. #29

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    Nice looking game.

    Even a small amount of terrain can add heaps of flavour to the game will be looking at adding in some kind of AA dugouts and supply depot as targets.

    Alan

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greywolf View Post
    Nice looking game.

    Even a small amount of terrain can add heaps of flavour to the game will be looking at adding in some kind of AA dugouts and supply depot as targets.

    Alan
    Cool, I use the target cards that come with the game and place my 3-D items on them. That way when I have to move them to let planes fly over the target is still there. I use that tacky play-do stuff you put up posters with to hold the target cards down to the table mat.

    Thomas

  31. #31

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    Those pictures you you guys posted looks awesome! I agree with the idea that 3d objects can be added, making the game more detailed. I'm trying to play some Flames of War combined with WoG. Does anyone know the scale of their minis?
    Thanks


    Nick

  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barkmann View Post
    Those pictures you you guys posted looks awesome! I agree with the idea that 3d objects can be added, making the game more detailed. I'm trying to play some Flames of War combined with WoG. Does anyone know the scale of their minis?
    Thanks


    Nick
    15mm scale is what FoW use. They utilise 1/144 scale planes for their games.

    Alan

  33. #33

    Default

    Ground scale for WGF is about 1:1000. That for WGS is 1:2400.

    I use flat tables, but with 2mm figurines for WGF, and 1/2400 ships for WGS.

  34. #34

    Default Nearly finished

    Hi there one and all!

    I have nearly finished my new 3D gaming mat. I've only got a hour or two's work adding the last of the hedgerows and am still waiting on some 2mm scale town buildings to arrive from Brigade Miniatures. I got impatient so I decided to post my last WIP photos and the next instalment should be the finished thing,

    For your viewing enjoyment I have also given you pictures of three walls of my workshop / gaming room. and some flavour text to give you the walk around.

    image.jpg
    You can see in this photo The area set aside for the 2mm village when it arrives, I will recolour the entire village site once I have an idea of the size and layout of the buildings.

    image.jpg
    This is a closer shot showing a river running through a corner of the map, I will make a multi arched stone bridge for the crossing, which will become a mission target along with the nearby village.

    image.jpg
    A longshot of the other side of the map where there is another stream that has two road crossings requiring more bridges. You can also see my early attempt at an orchard, between the river and the edge of the map. In the background is my modelling workstation, its mostly messy and there is usually 3 or 4 projects on the go at once.

    image.jpg
    In this shot you can see the entire map which is a little larger than 1200mm x 1200mm or roughly 4' x 4' in old money. I still have to finish the field boundary hedges along the southern map edge. The shelves behind contain model and diecast collections as well as various figures and vehicles for gaming. The upper shelf on the right is my home made 28mm bocage and tree stands, the one below contains master terrain models awaiting casting. The cupboards below contain various WIP's, mostly gaming projects in various scales and theatres. The cupboard on the left contains unmade model kits of various scales but mostly 1/48 Tamiya armour kits for my 28mm WW2 project.

    image.jpg
    This photo shows another side of the map and another wall of my gaming room. The plastic containers on the shelves contain my Wings of Glory and X-Wing miniatures. The shelves on the other side hold some of my wargaming buildings. The lower shelves are my rules collections and the magazine boxes contain all of my various modelling and gaming magazines. The cupboards below are full of bookcase style games like Avalon Hills Squad Leader and a heap of 15mm Flames of War models (And no I don't play Flames of War) the cupboard on the right contains more games but mostly it is taken up with all of my silicon rubber moulds and casting equipment.

    image.jpg
    This last photo shows my "heavy" work bench. The workbench is made from inch thick plywood and is actually made from old public service drafting table returns, those big draws were designed to house large lithographic plans. They are now filled with power tools, drill bits, and all manner of hand tools ( I was a boat builder earlier in my work career) I literally built the entire workshop from that bench.

    I hope you enjoyed the brief tour

    Trev
    Last edited by Roger Wilco; 08-17-2014 at 04:31.

  35. #35

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    Trevor looking awesome. Can't wait to see the end product.

    Btw DAM jealous of your gaming room. Wish I could have something like that

    Alan

  36. #36

    Default

    Hi Alan, thanks for the compliments, took me 3 years to get the workshop to this point, lots more to do though to get it how I want it. Sorry for stirring up some "shed envy"
    Last edited by Roger Wilco; 08-17-2014 at 05:39.

  37. #37

    Default

    Absolutely fantastic Trevor Bet you cannot wait to try it out.


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  38. #38

    Default

    Hi Paul, thanks! Got to admit, its got to that point where its driving me nuts! But I keep persevering and keep myself bent over it, gluing on little hedges and trees. I am really looking forward to game on it though. I'm looking forward to the arrival of the buildings, even to have a change of pace! I have had the idea of creating target points by simply sticking in coloured map pins. The map pins will mark the measuring points for AA and bombing points. I must be a masochistic glutton for punishment though, I'm already thinking about adding a centre section containing trenches and a no-mans-land..................Maybe next year!

  39. #39

    Default

    A very nice board Trevor.
    I can't wait to see you flying above that terrain.
    The photos you get should be magnificent.
    Very well done.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  40. #40

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    That looks awesome! Forget the planes, it makes me want to break out some tanks!

  41. #41

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    Wow, really nice gameboard. Definitely want to see some photos when you get planes flying around on it.

  42. #42

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    I use flat mats but with 3d terrain (as per Cappy Tom) military guns tanks AAA ect in 6mm, ships in 1/600 and for WW1 the occasional use of 1/200. Hills are another one I alocate a level that coresponds with a Wog stand, this add extra fun, too low and you crash into the hill, same hight play as for collision, one incrament and above your ok. Then if you want to be realy nasty add cloud over over the hill and only disclose the cloud level!

  43. #43

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    I use flat mats but with 3d terrain (as per Cappy Tom) military guns tanks AAA ect in 6mm, ships in 1/600 and for WW1 the occasional use of 1/200. Hills are another one I alocate a level that coresponds with a Wog stand, this add extra fun, too low and you crash into the hill, same hight play as for collision, one incrament and above your ok. Then if you want to be realy nasty add cloud over over the hill and only disclose the cloud level!
    I like the idea regarding the hills.... will look into doing something like that for our games.

    Alan

  44. #44

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    I'm with the 2D matt with 3D target/ground unit crowd. An additional bit you can do with the targets/units is to have a 2D piece the same size to replace the 3D one when planes fly over it.
    Best of both worlds.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    I'm with the 2D matt with 3D target/ground unit crowd. An additional bit you can do with the targets/units is to have a 2D piece the same size to replace the 3D one when planes fly over it.
    Best of both worlds.
    Karl
    I will be doing an order to GHQ soon for some AA guns. Got some other bits I can use to add in defenses. Give the lad some visual aid on what he needs to target with his bombers.

    Alan

  46. #46

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    i think GHQ have a sale on at the moment or it might be ending soon, might save your self some lolly.

  47. #47

    Rabbit 3's Avatar Squadron Leader Scotland.
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    Default

    I`ve used a `low relief` trench system map in some of my games before but, as has been mentioned earlier it makes placing the cards and models a bit more awkward.
    Pup Model Photo -1.jpgBattlemat P2.jpgF.E.2b Photo2.jpg
    However since Ares released the flat maps I use them a lot more as they are easier to transport and to play on. The 3D surface gets used in home games and with 1/300 ground combat rules.

  48. #48

    Default

    nice mat Robert

    I really like the detail. I will be looking at making a small 3D map for home and using my Wings of glory mats for when I visit my brother inlaw or friends.

    Alan

  49. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit 3 View Post
    I`ve used a `low relief` trench system map in some of my games before but, as has been mentioned earlier it makes placing the cards and models a bit more awkward.
    Pup Model Photo -1.jpgBattlemat P2.jpgF.E.2b Photo2.jpg
    However since Ares released the flat maps I use them a lot more as they are easier to transport and to play on. The 3D surface gets used in home games and with 1/300 ground combat rules.
    This mat seens very good. Between the flat mats and the high relief mats. Do you own just this mat?
    Thanks


    Nick

  50. #50

    Rabbit 3's Avatar Squadron Leader Scotland.
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    I originally did two trench 3D mats which are slightly longer than the standard Ares one plus a rear area one which could used either seperately or behind one of the trench maps.
    Once Ares released the official maps I got one of each version and now use them for most of my WoG gaming as they are much easier to transport and I think I might just get one more of each of the countryside and coastline ones for larger games.
    The home made ones were done using some lino off-cuts I had lying around which were then painted over and some model railway scenic material applied.
    They can be rolled up but not as tightly as an official map and sometimes need a bit of maintainance from time to time as the white glue used to create the 3d effect sometimes cracks a little.

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