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Thread: What I've learned after seeing the movie Flyboys

  1. #51

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    Amen, Chris. A-freaking-men...

  2. #52

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    Does all this mean that Flyboys was not accurate and true to life
    I'm shocked and devastated

  3. #53

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    Let's put it this way... back when I actually WATCHED movies, I used to have a dartboard on either side of the TV, one labeled "Fact" and the other "Crap." Guess which one usually caught more darts?

  4. #54

    Smile

    I have always thought Movie directors of "Historical" movies were rather like Journalists.
    "Dont let the truth get in the way of a good story".

  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Let's put it this way... back when I actually WATCHED movies, I used to have a dartboard on either side of the TV, one labeled "Fact" and the other "Crap." Guess which one usually caught more darts?
    You mean the "Fact" one actually has some holes in it?

  6. #56

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    Four films to compare: Black Hawk Down, Alemein (Italian film English subtitles), Aces High and All quiet on the Western Front. Loved every minute of each one.

    A personal side note: Way back in '76 I was a 17 year old Junior Soldier (Yes Britain had a Junior Soldier entry scheme). We went to Belgium to do a guard of honour for SACEUR, at the time General Hague, and had the opportunity to visit Waterloo. Our guide, atop of the lion monument, described how the English fell back from the ridge line and into trenches! My laughter was loud enough for my Company Commander to state "If you know any better then you explain about the battle". So I did. Waterloo at the time was deep in my love for the Napoleonic era and Napoleonic Wargaming.

    The most difficult thing for any teacher/instructor to do is to generate and maintain interest in any subject the majority may find boring and uninteresting.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skafloc View Post
    Four films to compare: Black Hawk Down, Alemein (Italian film English subtitles), Aces High and All quiet on the Western Front. Loved every minute of each one.

    A personal side note: Way back in '76 I was a 17 year old Junior Soldier (Yes Britain had a Junior Soldier entry scheme). We went to Belgium to do a guard of honour for SACEUR, at the time General Hague, and had the opportunity to visit Waterloo. Our guide, atop of the lion monument, described how the English fell back from the ridge line and into trenches! My laughter was loud enough for my Company Commander to state "If you know any better then you explain about the battle". So I did. Waterloo at the time was deep in my love for the Napoleonic era and Napoleonic Wargaming.

    The most difficult thing for any teacher/instructor to do is to generate and maintain interest in any subject the majority may find boring and uninteresting.
    Thumbs up for the 4 movies you stated.
    There's no boring subjects. There's boring approaches to subjects.

  8. #58

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    Joaquim you hit the nail on the head more exquisitely than I.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  9. #59

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    Excellent and witty review, Quim
    May I ask for more of the kind
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  10. #60

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    Thanks for your kindness and REP, Andy.
    You may.
    I'll try to deliver.

  11. #61

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    I liked your review Joaquim, and i totally agree...
    Flyboys doesn't show historical facts 70% of its time, although its at leats "funny" to watch. On the other hand i found The Red Baron a great film... should have more battle scenes but ok.
    I agree with you all who say that the world is getting alienated (right word?). A good example is Brazil. Most of the people dont even know that his own nation was a part of WWII. And Im almost sure that if you ask someone in the street:
    "Who won WWII? The americans.
    "What was the main battle of the war? D-Day.
    And i cant even protest, as the educational system is not that good...
    Thanks and sorry for any english mystakes (see?)


    Nick

  12. #62

  13. #63

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    Just my opinion so take it what its worth. If you don't have an educated population what are the benefits? 1. For the most part you don't have people that question authority, or the application of power. 2. You have a group that largely accepts things the way they are. 3. You have a population that goes along with the status quo, and if the status quo leadership is part of the agenda, so much the better. You have a population that works so hard just to make ends meet, that they seldom have the time or energy to question the way things are. When you have a populace that can't, or won't, question their leaders and call them to account, then its smooth sailing, generally speaking.
    Now please understand, I'm not calling out anybody or any country, nor is it my intention to single out any type of job or social standing. I'm just pointing out some things that would be advantageous to being a government whose general population is not as well educated as they could be. Suspect my comment may get taken off, but just wanted to provide some food for thought. If this is out of bounds admins, I sincerely apologize.
    Lastly, I kind of liked Flyboys. New what it was going to be before I watched it, so wasn't expecting much from it to begin with.

  14. #64

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    Oh, boy, William, here we go again...

  15. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Let's put it this way... back when I actually WATCHED movies, I used to have a dartboard on either side of the TV, one labeled "Fact" and the other "Crap." Guess which one usually caught more darts?
    "Isn't that the movie you called 'a mixture of Fantasy and Crap'?"
    "Yes! I dubbed it FantaCrap!"
    [Duke Phillips and Jay Sherman, _The Critic_]

    As noted; Sometimes being Strictly Accurate will cause more problems than it solves -- note the *four-hour* interval between Nelson's force sighting the Combined Fleet, and the first broadside from _Victory_; or having to introduce a new character for every minor event because all the important events of a battle happened to different people (a variant of Ebert's "Law of Character Economy" enters here). Some minor inaccuracy is forgivable; even I won't give a pass to the makers of _U-571_ for what they did, tho'.

  16. #66

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    personally ive liked all the movies mentioned so far. im a stickler for getting it right but at least the movies got MADE instead of such schlock as the current vampire/werewolf stuff. this applies even to such movies as "pearl harbor" the A/C, uniforms and visuals made it watchable for me (not to mention at least touching on the dorie miller story). with both flyboys and red baron it was the A/C and uniforms and so on. as disappointing as these movies were on a historical level they are better than much else that passes for entertainment these days.

  17. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by milcoll73 View Post
    personally ive liked all the movies mentioned so far. im a stickler for getting it right but at least the movies got MADE instead of such schlock as the current vampire/werewolf stuff. this applies even to such movies as "pearl harbor" the A/C, uniforms and visuals made it watchable for me (not to mention at least touching on the dorie miller story). with both flyboys and red baron it was the A/C and uniforms and so on. as disappointing as these movies were on a historical level they are better than much else that passes for entertainment these days.
    Phillip, you just said all...
    I agree is much better to watch Flyboys instead of teen vampires.
    But my eyes dont see any big historical fact wrong in The Red Baron. If someone could point me anything, im glad
    Thanks

    Nick

  18. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackronin View Post
    Oh, boy, William, here we go again...
    Hehehehehe

  19. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by prymus View Post
    Just my opinion so take it what its worth. If you don't have an educated population what are the benefits? 1. For the most part you don't have people that question authority, or the application of power. 2. You have a group that largely accepts things the way they are. 3. You have a population that goes along with the status quo, and if the status quo leadership is part of the agenda, so much the better. You have a population that works so hard just to make ends meet, that they seldom have the time or energy to question the way things are. When you have a populace that can't, or won't, question their leaders and call them to account, then its smooth sailing, generally speaking.
    Now please understand, I'm not calling out anybody or any country, nor is it my intention to single out any type of job or social standing. I'm just pointing out some things that would be advantageous to being a government whose general population is not as well educated as they could be. Suspect my comment may get taken off, but just wanted to provide some food for thought. If this is out of bounds admins, I sincerely apologize.
    Lastly, I kind of liked Flyboys. New what it was going to be before I watched it, so wasn't expecting much from it to begin with.
    Sorry William, just to understand as my english is not that good:
    Your comment posts the idea that a non educated population is better?
    Thanks

    Nick

  20. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barkmann View Post
    Sorry William, just to understand as my english is not that good:
    Your comment posts the idea that a non educated population is better?
    Thanks

    Nick
    Hi Nick, just to be clear your English is most likely far better than my Spanish. But no, an uneducated public is not better. But an educated public can be a dangerous thing for governments and bureaucrats. Which is basically the point of my post. There has been over the last 20 years a move in legislation and just general attitude to dumb down the public education system. Keep in mind, my only experience is with education in the U.S. I can not comment on the education systems of other countries, although the U.S. rankings are far lower than many.

    To go back to the topic, sorry 'bout the rant, I think that we become perhaps our own worst enemy. A lot of gamers get into research, digging deeper and deeper into whatever topic holds our interest. A lot of people become quite knowledgeable in our chosen topic, then we become very hard to satisfy. I love the tanks of WW2. When Saving Private Ryan came out, some people I know were talking about the "real" Tiger(I) in the movie. Of course I polished up my brain and set them straight. But I think this is typical of many of us. Which of course falls in line with comments already made. Perhaps if we weren't as "smart" we would have enjoyed films like Flyboys and Pearl Harbor more. Perhaps I would have enjoyed the Time Life Rickenbacker book more if d**n near every plane shot down wasn't a "Fokker".
    Last edited by prymus; 07-23-2014 at 23:43.

  21. #71

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    William, I fully agree with you. There is always the temptation from those above to reduce problems by erasing information and education. But that brings them more problems in the long run.

    Nicolas, Red Baron - although being better than Flyboys - has a lot of historic problems. The characters are all wrong...

  22. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by prymus View Post
    Hi Nick, just to be clear your English is most likely far better than my Spanish.
    At least your Spanish is better than your Portuguese. Chalk up one for Sesame Street....

  23. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by prymus View Post
    ....Perhaps I would have enjoyed the Time Life Rickenbacker book more if d**n near every plane shot down wasn't a "Fokker".
    I suppose 13 out of 17 scouts he despatched were Fokker D.VII so in some ways that may qualify but then he did also drop 4 two-seaters & 5 Balloons too.... but those fokkers were were made by someone else !!

  24. #74

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    William, i agree with you and Joaquim, that the governments are always try to reduce our power to reach informations. But i don't think that if we were "less smart" we would be happier(?). I mean, we would be pleased with Flyboys, to say an example, but I prefer learn more to know more and this way see problems like all of us saw in Flyboys (to say an example again).
    Besides, i think that this way, people would be encouraged to research more.
    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackronin View Post
    William, I fully agree with you. There is always the temptation from those above to reduce problems by erasing information and education. But that brings them more problems in the long run.

    Nicolas, Red Baron - although being better than Flyboys - has a lot of historic problems. The characters are all wrong...
    Thanks for the heads up about the film Joaquim.
    Thanks again both.


    Nick

  25. #75

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    Nicolas, great comments buddy. Man I think there could be a forum dedicated to happiness, what it is, what it should be, what comprises being happy, how to be happy.... It is all relative. I am happy to be informed about events in the Middle East, especially with regard to Israel. My Wife on the other hand, is happy to not be aware of these events. So what makes me happy isn't what makes someone else happy. I was "happy" with the film Flyboys, but was I satisfied? Certain aspects of the film were satisfying, but there were aspects of the film that were very unsatisfying.

    Flash. Yeah I see your point. I think I would have been more understanding it would have been written that he "downed a Fokker DVII" instead of the matter of fact way his ideas were written. Plus the fact that so many of his victories came late in the war, and the opponents he flew against. Rickenbacker was a childhood hero, and one of his books the first ever book of war that I read.

  26. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by prymus View Post
    Nicolas, great comments buddy. Man I think there could be a forum dedicated to happiness, what it is, what it should be, what comprises being happy, how to be happy.... It is all relative. I am happy to be informed about events in the Middle East, especially with regard to Israel. My Wife on the other hand, is happy to not be aware of these events. So what makes me happy isn't what makes someone else happy. I was "happy" with the film Flyboys, but was I satisfied? Certain aspects of the film were satisfying, but there were aspects of the film that were very unsatisfying.
    Thanks William, I think that this is the right point: satisfaction. I do liked the film, but as you said, certain aspects weren't satisfying.


    Nick

  27. #77

    Spandau
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    Flyboys should have and could have been such a better movie... too bad.

  28. #78

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    It’s too bad a lot of movies aren’t better. The truth is, it’s not that easy to make a really good movie. Flyboys was mediocre, and people here see plenty of historical holes in it. I’m too much of a novice to know. I saw it twice and I agree it’s mediocre. History has little to do with it though. Braveheart was terrific and we all know the problems with that. Same with Gladiator. I’ve also seen historically accurate movies that are just as bland as Flyboys. I found the Sergei Bondarchuk Waterloo film reasonably accurate, but it’s no more gripping than Flyboys or The Red Baron. All of them might have been compelling, but it takes a really good script, solid casting, solid acting and top-notch directing to make a really good film. That’s a combination that’s all too rare. A film that's both historically accurate and good? That’s even harder to find.

  29. #79

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    Yes, my mistake. Should have known better after watching every World Cup game available, and yes I remember the commentators addressing that topic on one of the broadcasts. Also German and Italian spoken heavily in the south, iirc.

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