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Thread: B-17s and Lancasters now available for pre-orders!

  1. #101

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    There are probably a whole bunch of issues intertwined here. As a plane nut I see the question as how rapidly Ares can hit the market with something approximating a representative collection. That brings us back to Blackronin's posts about important planes from the fighting powers in WWII. A couple of hundred types would do the job. A hundred would establish a powerful bridgehead. A big selection of planes as nice as the WoG would effectively ensure total domination of the market for a generation. The question for Ares and their distributors is whether that is financially viable. The prototyping, tooling, finishing, packaging and shipping requirements for a WoG model make introducing large selections very costly.

    Bringing out something like a dozen (or fewer, as Keith writes) new models per year, split between WWI and WWII has to be considered as an experiment. If Ares recovers its costs between new offerings, any failures will not kill them. Once you get down to a handful of new types per year, how might you as a producer make the choices? Should you be guided by fame and achievements, which would call for a whole bunch of Mustangs, Spitfires, 109's, 190's, Sturmoviks? Maybe numerical importance? Add in the B-24, B-17, Halifax, and other aircraft produced in huge quantities. As a game-oriented producer, I am a bit surprised we are not seeing selections built around game scenarios. A B-17F or B-17G is a natural centerpiece for a selection built around the 8th AF, with companions representing AAF and RAF escorts and Luftwaffe adversaries. The Lancaster brings up the Blind Man's Buff of massed night raids, but it also (by simply changing bomb bay fairings and ordnance,) lets you reenact all the Tallboy and Grand Slam missions. Those likewise call for a distinctive set of support pieces. Just trying to hit the Tirpitz in a deep fjord and protected with torpedo nets would be a gaming challenge. ( If you were as perverse as I, you would wait until your buddy builds a Tirpitz and then send him a homemade X-Craft Royal Navy midget sub, which actually sealed the fate of the battleship by planting explosive charges under the keel.)

    I really like the models and will keep ordering regardless. But at a few a year I could get even more annuated waiting for particular treasures.

    Andrzej, please tell us more about the new "unofficial" releases.

    Ron

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar200 View Post

    Andrzej, please tell us more about the new "unofficial" releases.

    Ron
    Thanks for your interesting remarks, Ron.
    I meant 1/200 planes sourced from Shapeways, AIM and Zvezda, which offer some interesting choices.
    I already have (if memory serves well) 3-8 pieces of:
    Shapeways: I-16, PZL P-11, PZL P-24, Spitfire V trop, Bf 109 F/Early G,
    AIM: Fw-190A, Ki-48 Lily, Ki-43 Hayabusa, Nakajima Kate, Dauntless, Fiat Br 20, Mc 200, Hs 129, Airacobra.
    Zvezda: Ju 52, Ju 88.
    Painting and decalling them is part of the fun.
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  3. #103

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    These are the WW2 bases, unofficial and official, that the Oberst has produced so far Ron.

    http://www.aerodromeaccessories.com/...ands/wwii.html

    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  4. #104

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    Good for all to know about those. I'm looking for the database of 1:200 aircraft. It is only a bit dated, and it will help everyone find bits that they need.

  5. #105

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    Good point Ron, those Tirpitz and U-Boot shelter attacks with the Lancasters.

    The eye candy is another argument [I]Herr Oberst[/] and I would like to see night fight rules.


    The problem I see with (masses of) alternative miniatures: No plane cards, no movement decks, no original bases, etc...

    I like my minis in Nexus/Ares style: complete with all you need to play. A table full of replacements isn't that attractive in my opinion.


    I don't understand why each WGS announcement is in immediate company with statements like: Why not this mini instead of this mini and I wish this model, etc...

    I think we all handle the new series the same. If you like the mini, you buy it.

    ...and in general I have to say that the quality, equipment and price of an Ares Games WGS mini is that nice that I buy models even if I didn't prefer that mini much, when they announced it. I took me half a year to buy two night fighter Bf.110s and a night fighter Bristol Beau for example.

    The announced Judy bomber of series 6 is such a plane. Of course we get another small Jap bomber but If I imagine, how cool those will look beside the KI 84 Franks.
    Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marechallannes View Post
    We'll see.

    We have Bf.110s and Beaufighters in black.

    With the Lancasters - all you need for an "at ease" night fight.
    I just might have been a little misunderstod here...
    I have nothing against the Lancaster or the release of some in WoGS. It's just the DAMBUSTER-version.
    How many missions did this version fly? Two? I draw parallells with the Sopwith Snipe in WoGF. It flew for some 47 days and everybody are hating (or just don't want it....) it.
    But now everybody just love an aircraft that flew for two???
    I do understand that a Dambuster is eye candy but I like my aircrafts... well... more multipurposed. A paintscheme is possible to alter (by all of you brilliant artist out there) but the dambuster will allways be
    a dambuster.

    Just a thought.....
    P-G

  7. #107

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    Hoping not getting my head cut of for this

  8. #108

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    No, you're well out of range, Per-Gunnar.


    Just change to the dark side (WGS) and you'll see clearer.


    The dambuster Lancs executed exactly one mission.

    Do you know how much missions the Doolittle B-25 Mitchell solved?

    Why should this be an obstacle to buy or play this mini?

    (...and don't forget the nice dam target card)
    Last edited by Marechallannes; 10-16-2014 at 23:16.
    Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marechallannes View Post
    No, you're well out of range, Per-Gunnar.


    Just change to the dark side (WGS) and you'll see clearer.


    The dambuster Lancs executed exactly one mission.

    Do you know how much missions the Doolittle B-25 Mitchell solved?

    Why should this be an obstacle to buy or play this mini?

    (...and don't forget the nice dam target card)
    Well nothing of course. Every AC made to the WoG is an individual AC that flew for, a day, a week, a month, a mission, but that is not my point. As long as the AC is a "standard" you can alter it to
    fit your personal taste.
    The Dambuster Lancaster is a specialversion made only for one thing. And it is altered to fit that one thing. Without its dorsal turret and with the special fitting of the drumbomb it is (to me anyhow)
    limited in its use.
    I may be a bit cruel but if you make a senario with the dambuster Lanc you.... blow up a dam or .... blow up a dam......or blow up a DAM!!

    I'm not trying to be a drag. Just speaking my mind...

    Sorry if I offend anyone....

  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by LOOP View Post
    Well nothing of course. Every AC made to the WoG is an individual AC that flew for, a day, a week, a month, a mission, but that is not my point. As long as the AC is a "standard" you can alter it to
    fit your personal taste.
    The Dambuster Lancaster is a specialversion made only for one thing. And it is altered to fit that one thing. Without its dorsal turret and with the special fitting of the drumbomb it is (to me anyhow)
    limited in its use.
    I may be a bit cruel but if you make a senario with the dambuster Lanc you.... blow up a dam or .... blow up a dam......or blow up a DAM!!

    I'm not trying to be a drag. Just speaking my mind...

    Sorry if I offend anyone....
    Respect, Sven
    But I am totally with Per-Gunnar this time.
    What I like in both games is the social fun factor, plus ease of play, plus their flexibility, giving players a full scope of creativity.
    Lancs and DamBuster Lanc specifically is the contrary of all of the above.
    Fly one mission to a dam, fly straight, manage 7 crewmen and 4 engines and drop the bomb sooner or later. It is as fun and exciting as piloting a cupboard.
    Not my cup of tea as a casual gamer-pilot.
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  11. #111

    LOOP
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    Thank you for the support

  12. #112

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    Got to agree there Andy.
    It's far more fun to shoot bombers down than to fly them.
    The only reason I'm getting one of each is because of the Iconic nature of the aircraft, and because there may be some mileage in using them at shows.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  13. #113

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    I see a paralel with D&D. Many years ago, I ask my friend why he is a GM - his.character could not earn any XP during his story leading and he answered: someone has to be a GM because there is no fun for.you without him.

    Someone just have to fly bomber...

    By the way, I have no problem with dambuster Lancaster - all the mechanism are hidden under the plane, so for the first look it is OK. And answer me - who knows that one of D.VII in WGF have violet wings? Just rhetorical question... So for me: no problem with dambuster.

  14. #114

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    Thank you Daniel, for rear cover.

    Quote Originally Posted by LOOP View Post
    ...

    I'm not trying to be a drag. Just speaking my mind...

    Sorry if I offend anyone....
    Noticed.

    Treat the Dambuster version as a special WGS minature.

    A tribute to an unique, exact planed, well executed WW II bombing raid and the men who flew into those bombers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    ...Fly one mission to a dam, fly straight, manage 7 crewmen and 4 engines and drop the bomb sooner or later. It is as fun and exciting as piloting a cupboard.

    Not my cup of tea as a casual gamer-pilot.
    Why not?

    I once spottet a Norwegian Gladiator in a bombing raid with a He.111.

    Why not spot a Lancaster without a top turret in a misson?
    Last edited by Marechallannes; 10-17-2014 at 03:26.
    Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  15. #115

    LOOP
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    Well as allways. It fun to argue
    And even if we disagree aboute the use, we can at least agree upon the looks. The Lancasters are splendid
    Have fun with them

  16. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    What I find a real change and a marketing HIT is Aerodrome Accessories move to produce unofficial planes' bases! Ju 88, SM 79, Fiat Br 20 and even the Blohm&Voss! Order placed!
    Thanks. Only time will tell. So far the three of you that like them, like them pretty well. lol

  17. #117

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    I'm expecting the normal Lanc to out sell the Dam Lanc abour 2 or 3 to 1. I can only see me needing 2x normal and 1x Dam for convention games... and I'd run that Dam Lanc as a normal in most of those games. Until the night fighting rules come out (if they ever do) I don't see the Lanc getting much table time at all.

  18. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by LOOP View Post
    Well as allways. It fun to argue
    And even if we disagree aboute the use, we can at least agree upon the looks. The Lancasters are splendid
    Have fun with them
    I'm getting one of each. I will use the Dambuster as a regular Lanc when needed. I know, blasphemy for some! Through my decades gaming I have wanted to play battles I didn't have the correct figures for. Do I wait months/years to play the battle while I paint what is correct or substitute in what I have? (Napoleonics/SYW/ Ancients/WW2...) I try to get as much correct as possible but am not afraid to substitute in some.

    Thanks for pointing out the new bases Andy. Off to the Aerodrome shop....

  19. #119

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    My personal assessment is that almost all modellers (build, chop, and paint people) are closet collectors. Otherwise we would not accumulate models and kits and supplies much faster than we complete models. That's OK. We live with it and enjoy it. Under 10% of the kits made are EVER built. If we did not accumulate the hobby industry would collapse. We also need to recognize the fine line separating the collector from the pathologic hoarder. It is more than my perspective versus the viewpoint of my mother-in-law in full self-righteous dudgeon. I keep coming back to the play factor. We get a bigger and more lasting bang out of mini's that are assembled and finished enough to play with.

    We are touching here on the fundamental issue of what a model should represent.

    Part of the issue is how specific to be about the sub-types and mod's of an aircraft type. Looking at the Lancaster, for which the SAM monograph is a wonderful resource, the basic airframe was manufactured in 4-5 visibly different configurations (radial engines, Merlin engines, the Lancastrian transport, and a variety of stripped down Lancaster Specials). The Lanc Specials, in turn, differed in bomb bay fairings, the exposed ordnance, whether the nose and dorsal turrets were faired over. The model producer cannot offer every possible variation. Someplace along the line the customer has to be willing to drag the model kicking and screaming to the work bench and have his/her way with it. We made 5 different Lanc's as HBM models, and there must be at least another dozen extant. We will shortly have instant access to the two Ares Lanc's. I call this a Golden Age.

    Same general issue has been raised with regard to the specificity of finish. Go to an IPMS contest and you will see an aircraft that can only have had one pilot, represented on one day, before or after painstakingly applied dirt, damage, or repairs were applied. (Listen to the contestants argue about infinitesimal details of the non-visible aft control cables! Watch them jump and scream when you pick up the model and simulate a strafing run across the contest table! Hear how you just got paynim fingerprints on a model on which the builder has spent a few hundred hours!) At the other extreme of detail, go visit your local armoury or base and watch the lads and lasses do CP or sand table exercises using models painted a monocolour shade of gray (for which I am told there are now several hundred variations). Who's correct? I would argue that it is so easy and inexpensive to customize with decals, hobby paints, and weathering that we should respect the producer's choices.

    I finally found a version of Chris Sayer's 1/200 model database. I will post that as a new thread later today. There will be a Word document explaining all the abbreviations, and then an Excel spread sheet containing the actual data.

    Have a great weekend.

    Ron

  20. #120

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    Yes, the Dambusters Lancaster has all you need for a dam attack.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  21. #121

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    Cool play test photos Andrea.

  22. #122

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    I greatly appreciate the detailed orientation of many of my fellow members and wingmen; I learn a lot from them and really enjoy looking at their fine modeling skills. As for the folks I play with, I think all of them would look at the dam-busting Lancaster, for example, think it looks cool, hear a little history about it, think it is cooler, and then forget about it once the game begins, however the Lancaster is being used in the scenario. This has been a growing realization for me. It is causing me to rethink how I am collecting planes and ships (SoG).

    I enjoy collecting due to the aesthetics and the history reflected in the color schemes and markings. I am wondering, however, how expansive a collection I need, especially given other interests and responsibilities. Do I need planes painted in North African schemes to play a North Africa scenario? No. Do I need the correct versions of the given planes? No. Would I enjoy having such a collection? Yes. Am I going to work toward such a collection? Not sure anymore. The one collection I would like to have, and will continue to pursue, is the Polish-Soviet War. This is due to several reasons, all personal. As for building my collection in the future, the main criteria is plane type variation that enables different types of scenarios; though, even here, I can substitute planes if push comes to shove.
    “You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato

  23. #123

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    Uli posted some pictures on the Anchorage of these planes at Essen: http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.p...-2014-in-Essen
    “You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato

  24. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    Yes, the Dambusters Lancaster has all you need for a dam attack.
    Truly the most impressive mini by a dam site.

    >:)

  25. #125

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    If you like Lancasters, you'll spend the money for a dam version, too.

    I'm pretty shure.


    I wonder about the silence of our British WGS friends here. (Beside honorable Flying Officer Kyte, of course.)
    Last edited by Marechallannes; 10-17-2014 at 14:18.
    Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  26. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    Cool play test photos Andrea.
    Yes.

    Nice pictures, Andrea.
    Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  27. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7eat51 View Post
    Uli posted some pictures on the Anchorage of these planes at Essen: http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.p...-2014-in-Essen
    Given the "database" issues with the Anchorage, could you post them here?
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  28. #128

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    Here is the pic from the Anchorage...

    Click image for larger version. 

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  29. #129

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    Here a detail of the lower floor (hoping not being too OT):

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Angiolillo; 10-17-2014 at 19:52.

  30. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    Here a detail of the lower floor (hoping not being too OT):

    Click image for larger version. 

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    For general release when exactly?
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  31. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guntruck View Post
    For general release when exactly?
    Always a good question, Gunners
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  32. #132

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    But I never have good answers. Please check the upcoming pages on Ares' site, where they are not listed yet.

  33. #133

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    Hi guys,

    Am I correct that big birds will have overall decals camo? I've just noticed that on "Memphis Belle", but I'm not sure.

  34. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt View Post
    Hi guys,

    Am I correct that big birds will have overall decals camo? I've just noticed that on "Memphis Belle", but I'm not sure.
    I hope not...

  35. #135

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    I check the ARES site and just see a Nov release. Any idea of when in Nov the bombers will be released?

  36. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobP View Post
    I check the ARES site and just see a Nov release. Any idea of when in Nov the bombers will be released?
    15-DEC-14?
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  37. #137

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    With the Dam buster Lancaster, it opens a wide range of conversion possibilities, the 1st one I am going to do is a Lanc model with a 10,000 pdr Tall boy bomb for a sink the the German battleship in the fiords of Norway. No the model in my view has lots of potential.

  38. #138

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    We made alternative bomb bay fillets and a Tallboy for the Lancaster Special. Anybody want copies?

    Come to think of it Dave Schmid/AIM is making reissues of my whole HBM Lancaster. Might make at least as much sense as chopping a $25+ finished model. Dave has the HBM Halifaxes and Stirling too.

    Ron

  39. #139

    LOOP
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar200 View Post
    My personal assessment is that almost all modellers (build, chop, and paint people) are closet collectors.
    You have a Point there. I know for I am one. But still..... I stand by my thoughts on the Dambuster as a gamingpiece.

  40. #140

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    It's all in how you look at it. We're all "correct". I look at the Ares Lancasters and think about what wonderful starting points they would be for Manchesters or maybe the Orenda-Iroquois jet engine test plane. The Canadian in me gets all warm and fuzzy picturing a Lanc with that much thrust augmentation. Creative wizards like Clipper Dave may already be plotting new uses for four Merlin engines, two rudders, a funny looking barrel, and a gaming stand.

    Have you connected up with the Swedish 1/200 collector group? A great group of guys and some wonderful collections. Meetings are generally around Stockholm, but members visit from as far as Copenhagen.

    Are you familiar with the 1/200 scale models by Eskader? They made a nice set of white metal aircraft during and maybe after WWII, and then some metal models of Swedish jets that were used by the air force.

    Ron

  41. #141

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    If the Dambuster is an easy really an easy mission, it might be a great way for a beginner to learn how to fly bombers.

    Doug, I really like your idea for the "conversion possibilities."

  42. #142

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    It is a gradual scenario (or two double scenarios if you prefer). There is a mission of a single plane against an undefended dam (Eder dam) whose aim is to hit the dam with the bouncing bomb; the full scenario in which you have to destroy the dam within three attacks (representing the planes AJ-L, AJ-Z, AJ-N - you need two bombs on the dam to destroy it) and even better within two so that the third one can be used on another target; the quick scenario against Möhne dam that's defended by AA guns, and the full scenario against it with five attacks available (planes AJ-G, AJ-M, AJ-P, AJ-A and AJ-J) trying to use as less planes as possible.

  43. #143

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    Sounds fine to me Andrea. It might be nice if I re-badge a couple as the other planes in the attack group though! then we can have several kids at an event making the run one after the other.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  44. #144

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    Well yes, I did the cheap trick of telling people that they can use again the same Lancaster coming to the table more than once to simulate the attacks of different planes (my family coms from Genoa, they are famed to value money as much as Scottish people up there and it would be a bit too much to ask everybody to buy 5 Dambusters for such a scenario).
    In any case, in the Möhne dam full scenario AJ-G, if she survives her attack, can be present besides other planes in furher attacks to attract AA fire, as she historically did - at least a second miniature can be handy (Genoan, Scottish and other savings-oriented players can use the airplane card instead to simulate this second plane on the table).

  45. #145

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    I really can't wait to get those beauties in my greedy hands...
    Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  46. #146

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    How easy would it be to produce a Tallboy/Grand Slam conversion kit for the Dambuster Lancaster?

  47. #147

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    It could be a feasible subject for a reprint, if the actual released planes go well enough.

  48. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    Well yes, I did the cheap trick of telling people that they can use again the same Lancaster coming to the table more than once to simulate the attacks of different planes (my family coms from Genoa, they are famed to value money as much as Scottish people up there and it would be a bit too much to ask everybody to buy 5 Dambusters for such a scenario).
    Bearing in mind my Scottish Great Grandmother, I could just bring one re badged aircraft to an event and rely on other members bringing their aircraft.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  49. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Bearing in mind my Scottish Great Grandmother, I could just bring one re badged aircraft to an event and rely on other members bringing their aircraft.
    Rob.
    The nice thing about gaming with like-minded groups is sharing resources. We've done this at Origins quite a bit (Tom: how many He-111s did we put on the table last year? )
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  50. #150

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    I see the ARES site is still down. The bombers are due out in Nov. Any idea when this month?

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