Bristol F2.B Questions (game and history)

tppytel · 07-13-2014 21:21

Some F2.B questions... I'm not that well-versed (yet!) in WWI aviation history and find that my Google results are often just recycling the same Wikipedia text. I'm sure you all have better sources than I do...

1) What was the difference between the A and B models? As best I can tell, the B was distinguished by the Rolls-Royce Falcon III engine and the accompanying design to utilize it. Is there more that I'm missing?

2) When did the F2.B enter operational service? Numerous sources cite the weak debut of the F2.A, though it's not clear they agree on the date. The Ares preview article states the F2.A debut was in April 1917, and that the F2.B was a response to that. But then I've seen other sources that say the F2.B entered service in March 1917, which doesn't jibe with the earlier statement. Still other sources suggest that the F2.B didn't get orders in quantity until October 1917, and presumably was delivered even later. There seems to be a very wide range of dates here.

3) What do the various fire ratings (A/B, B/B, B/A) given to the different F2.B models represent? I've read about different variations involving the second Lewis gun. It sounds like the B/B is the relatively standard (?) version with a single Vickers in front and a single Lewis in the rear. The B/A would presumably be one with dual Lewis guns in the rear? And does the A/B represent a variation with an extra Lewis gun mounted forward? That sounded uncommon. Scenario balance aside, what would be considered the most common variation? I like to construct scenarios that are at least "historically flavored", though I recognize that any but very early war scenarios would require many more planes and models than 2 players can realistically handle.

Thanks for any insight you can provide.

**Nicola Zee** · 07-13-2014 23:58

Originally Posted by tppytel

Some F2.B questions... I'm not that well-versed (yet!) in WWI aviation history and find that my Google results are often just recycling the same Wikipedia text. I'm sure you all have better sources than I do...

1) What was the difference between the A and B models? As best I can tell, the B was distinguished by the Rolls-Royce Falcon III engine and the accompanying design to utilize it. Is there more that I'm missing?

2) When did the F2.B enter operational service? Numerous sources cite the weak debut of the F2.A, though it's not clear they agree on the date. The Ares preview article states the F2.A debut was in April 1917, and that the F2.B was a response to that. But then I've seen other sources that say the F2.B entered service in March 1917, which doesn't jibe with the earlier statement. Still other sources suggest that the F2.B didn't get orders in quantity until October 1917, and presumably was delivered even later. There seems to be a very wide range of dates here.

3) What do the various fire ratings (A/B, B/B, B/A) given to the different F2.B models represent? I've read about different variations involving the second Lewis gun. It sounds like the B/B is the relatively standard (?) version with a single Vickers in front and a single Lewis in the rear. The B/A would presumably be one with dual Lewis guns in the rear? And does the A/B represent a variation with an extra Lewis gun mounted forward? That sounded uncommon. Scenario balance aside, what would be considered the most common variation? I like to construct scenarios that are at least "historically flavored", though I recognize that any but very early war scenarios would require many more planes and models than 2 players can realistically handle.

Thanks for any insight you can provide.

The Brisfit entered service with the B/B arrangement. Soon after operational service, it was found to be easy and effective to add a second gun to the rear swivel mount. So, for most of the war the B/A arrangement became standard.

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 07-14-2014 01:46

This thread may be of some interest Todd.
As far as I know, the A/B configuration was only employed on a few Home Defence Night Fighters.
Rob.

**Dom S** · 07-14-2014 04:06

A front guns (ie. two guns - a Lewis on the top wing to supplement the usual Vickers) were very rare indeed - a couple of 22 squadron machines experimented with the arrangement on the Western front, but the Lewis gun messed with the aircraft's compass (which was mounted on the top wing) so they ditched the idea in short order. One of these experiments has a Wings Of Glory model, but shouldn't be considered "typical" - the other one actually had twin rear Lewis as well, so was an A / A in game terms, but really is a bit of a munchkin model to be playing with....

The occasional home defence machine may also have had a forward lewis, and at least one 39 squadron machine had twin Lewis guns on top of the wing, as well as its fixed Vickers, and twin Lewis on a Scarff mount in the back (giving it A+B / A in game terms) but that was almost certainly an absolute one-off.

In terms of what could normally be considered reasonable in a game, B/B and B/A are really it - twin Lewis guns in the back were pretty widespread, especially on lower altitude missions (it was noted that above about 12,000 feet the extra weight became extremely problematic for the observer to manhandle, so single guns were often preferred) but upgunning the forward armament was vanishingly rare.

**Dom S** · 07-14-2014 04:31

PS - As for service dates, it depends what you count as "in service" - first issued for evaluation, first issued as standard squadron equipment, first deployment to France, combat debut...?

The F2A's first combat was 5th April 1917, but the F2B was already very much in the pipeline by then - the first F2B was delivered to the RFC on April 13th - the revision stemming from evaluation of the original prototypes, not combat reports. There were lots of minor alterations between the F2A and the F2B (wing alterations, notably the wingtip shape, larger fuel tank, extra Vickers ammo) as well as ultimately the engine, although early F2Bs didn't have the Falcon III.

As for the F2B entering service, 11 squadron was the first unit in France to get them, and was operating a mix of its old FE2s and new Bristol F2Bs by mid June 1917 - first operational F2B sorties were on June 13th 1917.