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Thread: Gimbal Mounts

  1. #101

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    Florian,

    Like you, I didn't want to modify the planes themselves any. It is possible to mount both the ball bearing and the ring magnet onto pegs, & thus no modifications to the plane required. Only thing needed is a slight cut of the tip of one peg where it sticks through the ring magnet, & some super glue.

    Since you'd have to cut the pegs, you might want a bag of them if you don't already have one. (They're a good thing to have anyway.). That's it!

  2. #102

    Karo 7
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    I've read about this possibility, but personally I like the variant with the gimbal direct on the plane more. First you have only one spot to glue, second the look is more sophisticated (imho).

    I've made an enquiry on a piercing-webshop for 5mm steel balls with a 2mm one-sided drilling.

  3. #103

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    I'm also working on a "Gimbal Plate" that will allow you to attach the bearing to it and the plate to the mini.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karo 7 View Post
    I've read about this possibility, but personally I like the variant with the gimbal direct on the plane more. First you have only one spot to glue, second the look is more sophisticated (imho).

    I've made an enquiry on a piercing-webshop for 5mm steel balls with a 2mm one-sided drilling.
    Florian, I'd love to hear what they say. I've tried to have this done several times by a company here in the US that does this as part of their standard business... but they never get back to me with a quote

  4. #104

    Karo 7
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    Negativ. All piercing products are nonmagnetic. RC-Helicopter rotorgear ballbearings were negativ, too. They are made of copper.

  5. #105

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    They might be able to do a custom drill, but their listed hole sizes do not appear to match up very well with the pegs on our planes. That and at $0.29 a ball, they would be pretty expensive.

  6. #106

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    I tried your method. It works great! Thanks much for your post. "das Phantom" aka Wayne

  7. #107

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    The problem with drilling for peg holes is that the taper on the peg goes from 2mm to about 2.2mm so unless you taper reamed the hole you would only get point contact instead of a tight fit, and constant wedging of steel against plastic would cause wear and ridging of the peg in time. As the balls are made from steel which is hardened I'm not sure that reaming is an option anyway.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  8. #108

    Karo 7
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    @das Phantom: pics, please!

    @FO Kyte: An option could be to make the hole a little bit wider and insert a protection tube. Such as a cable shout.

  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    The problem with drilling for peg holes is that the taper on the peg goes from 2mm to about 2.2mm so unless you taper reamed the hole you would only get point contact instead of a tight fit, and constant wedging of steel against plastic would cause wear and ridging of the peg in time. As the balls are made from steel which is hardened I'm not sure that reaming is an option anyway.
    Rob.
    You are correct Rob, but I was looking at having them drilled with the correct tapper. If given a snug fit, I don't think players would actually ever remove the balls unless they were going to sell their minis and the buyer did not want them... but when is either of those two things going to happen? lol

  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    You are correct Rob, but I was looking at having them drilled with the correct tapper. If given a snug fit, I don't think players would actually ever remove the balls unless they were going to sell their minis and the buyer did not want them... but when is either of those two things going to happen? lol
    I like the sound of this. Is this still in the works, or shelved for now?

  11. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    You are correct Rob, but I was looking at having them drilled with the correct tapper. If given a snug fit, I don't think players would actually ever remove the balls unless they were going to sell their minis and the buyer did not want them... but when is either of those two things going to happen? lol
    Not very likely as you say Keith.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  12. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by fast.git View Post
    I like the sound of this. Is this still in the works, or shelved for now?
    It's kind of on going... finding a supplier for the bearings in the issue. Not a lot of place doing this type of work.

  13. #113

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    If it comes off I will certainly have a poke at them Keith.
    Meantime any news about the ordinary ones being re stocked?
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  14. #114

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    Humm, I think the inventory count on the site must be off. I know I've got a container full of them. I'll check when I get home this afternoon and update the AA site and here as necessary.

  15. #115

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    Thanks Keith.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  16. #116

  17. #117

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    Ordered thanks Keith.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  18. #118

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    I have just received my recent order of 40 gimbals and mounts from AA. Perfect. Next forty 3D printed planes will bank, dive, climb...
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  19. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    I have just received my recent order of 40 gimbals and mounts from AA. Perfect. Next forty 3D printed planes will bank, dive, climb...
    and crash!
    Kyte.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  20. #120

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    Important note guys: It is critical to your Gimbal mount that you "Rough Up" your ball bearing with emery cloth or something similar. Lightly roughing up the ball will ensure your planes hold their position and not be flopping around each time you do a maneuver. Another positive, if you have left any glue it should remove it as well. It's a small step that will make your playing with Gimbal mounts much more pleasurable.

    Notice in the photo how far over both planes are canted, and one is a heavier two-seater. Roughing the ball makes this and moving the planes during each maneuver very easy.

    Mounting Technique: I prefer the ball mounted (glued)to the post and cutting one small post with a "razor saw" (this is a easy to find modeling or crafting tool) to attach to the plane with the Gimbal magnet on it. Here are several reasons why:
    -This method allows you to either use or not use the magnets as you prefer.
    -It also allows all planes to remain at the same height with 4 posts or with magnet (that's 3 posts, ball, gilbal and cut post). So when you fly with friends that have not applied Gimbal magnets to their stands altitude visually remains the same.
    -You can cut a small piece of steel flashing (from a hardware store) and drop it in a carrying case. Use old scissors for this. The planes are easily attached to it using your Gimbal and post. (See Picture) Just be sure to "slide them off" as pulling may dislodge the Gimbal.

    Glue Tips:
    -Use "Insta-Set" in the hole that the ball bearing will sit on, then set the ball on it and add glue lightly to the sides. It will glue quickly and not discolor your plastic post.
    - Cut aproximately 1/3 off the pointy end of one post and then set it on the table cut side down to ensure it is level. A little exacto knife trimming makes this step easy and quick. Again use "insta-set" first on the gimbal, and then glue on the post.

    BAG: For those who wonder I use for a bag... it's a tackle box that I got at Wal-Mart for $31. It comes with four trays, lots of pockets, a handle and carrying strap. Its' a pretty good buy and usable for multiple game systems.

    "Das Phantom" aka Wayne Name:  Gimbal.jpg
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Size:  207.8 KBName:  Case 2.jpg
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    Last edited by das Phantom; 04-07-2014 at 11:50. Reason: added additional tips / photos

  21. #121

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    Karo 7... I posted Pics and crafting hints as requested...

  22. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by das Phantom View Post
    Important note guys: It is critical to your Gimbal mount that you "Rough Up" your ball bearing with emery cloth or something similar. Lightly roughing up the ball will ensure your planes hold their position and not be flopping around each time you do a maneuver.
    Wayne, wouldn't your gimble method work better with the ball above the magnet? I think the weight of the magnet off centre from the peg must cause the gimble to slip more than usual. Just a thought, thanks for sharing your method.


    Ian

  23. #123

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    Good point Ian. I really appreciate your post. I tried it both ways and found there is a slight weight difference. "Roughing" solved any weight issues for me. The other benefits of ball on post outweigh the alternative for me as well, but everyone needs to take the approach they prefer. I'm sure we will find pilots that like both opposing techniques. I made the post to simply assist with this technique, if it's the one you choose.
    Thanks again! All input is welcome! Cheers! "Das Phantom" aka Wayne

  24. #124

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    I just paint my ball baring and it imparts enough extra friction to do the trick.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  25. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    I just paint my ball baring and it imparts enough extra friction to do the trick.
    Rob.
    Hey, good plan... yet another great idea! "Das Phantom" aka Wayne

  26. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    I just paint my ball baring and it imparts enough extra friction to do the trick.
    Rob.
    Looks sharp, too.

    Rob, do you get any paint transfer from bearing to magnet? If so, how long does it take for this to happen?

  27. #127

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    Rob, I don't think I've seen a pick with your painted gimbals yet....

  28. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    Rob, I don't think I've seen a pick with your painted gimbals yet....
    I noticed them on the Wellingtons he prepared for his Malta campaign...

    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...ht=wellingtons

    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...ht=wellingtons

  29. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by fast.git View Post
    Looks sharp, too.

    Rob, do you get any paint transfer from bearing to magnet? If so, how long does it take for this to happen?
    I have found that if I spray the balls with white primer first, and varnish afterwards, no paint seems to rub off.
    however, I have only been doing this since I started WW2 so less than a year.
    Before that I used to drop a bit of Zap a Gap Medium CA onto the ball to give added friction.
    The Oberst's tack glue works well too as long as you don't have cats.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  30. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    I just paint my ball baring and it imparts enough extra friction to do the trick.
    Rob.
    Getting a little pornographic ain't ya Rob.

  31. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Chum View Post
    Getting a little pornographic ain't ya Rob.
    Not so Kelly.
    I was very careful in my choice of words so as not to be misunderstood.
    I very deliberately included the word baring, instead of just saying I paint my balls.
    I only do this for Painted Naked bike rides.
    I know what a fun lot you all are.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  32. #132

  33. #133

    Karo 7
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    Quote Originally Posted by das Phantom View Post
    Karo 7... I posted Pics and crafting hints as requested...
    Thanks for the pictures Wayne, but I misunderstood you. I thought you have made the variant with sticking the plane in a drilled ball, without the cut-off peg. Anyone out there who have tried that method?

  34. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karo 7 View Post
    Thanks for the pictures Wayne, but I misunderstood you. I thought you have made the variant with sticking the plane in a drilled ball, without the cut-off peg. Anyone out there who have tried that method?
    You mean like this Florian?




    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  35. #135

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    Rob, you drilled the hole into those bearings your self?

  36. #136

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    If you grind a flat on one side of the ball, it gets through the very hard chrome surface. Make a jig like this one but with a smaller hole to sit the ball into.

    http://www.instructables.com/id/Simp...ct-hole-in-a-/

    If you heat up the ball first to cherry red and cool slowly in the charcoal of the brazing hearth it helps to normalize the steel.
    You can then drill it with a Tungsten, or Cobalt drill, or if you are feeling really rich, and can't be bothered with the normalizing stage, a Stellite drill.
    We used to do it all the time at work when we were making Newtons cradles. I even still have the drilling jig for I-1/2 inch ball bearings somewhere, although it is a lot more sophisticated than the one above.
    I won't be repeating the exercise on something this small.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  37. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    I won't be repeating the exercise on something this small.
    Rob.

    And here I was ready to order 5000 of them from you. lol

  38. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    And here I was ready to order 5000 of them from you. lol
    Much as I like you, not even for you boss.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  39. #139

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    Such insolence, send me your whipping boy at once!

  40. #140

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    Yes Herr Oberst. At once Herr Oberst.
    Pike, come here immediately boy.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  41. #141

    Karo 7
    Guest


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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    You mean like this Florian?




    Rob.
    Exactly. Thank you for the hints on drilling.

    Florian

  42. #142

    ColoradoCoppens
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    Still relatively new to the game, and looking into getting Gimbals for my planes. Has anyone tried drilling a hole and inserting rare earth magnets (like these) directly into the underside of the fuselage, so that the magnet is flush with the plane's surface, and then attaching the ball baring to the top peg?

    It seems like the most inconspicuous mounting, although maybe also the most invasive procedure.

  43. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by ColoradoCoppens View Post
    Still relatively new to the game, and looking into getting Gimbals for my planes. Has anyone tried drilling a hole and inserting rare earth magnets (like these) directly into the underside of the fuselage, so that the magnet is flush with the plane's surface, and then attaching the ball baring to the top peg?

    It seems like the most inconspicuous mounting, although maybe also the most invasive procedure.
    It might be a bit adjacent to the outside edge of the plane Tom.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  44. #144

    ColoradoCoppens
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    It might be a bit adjacent to the outside edge of the plane Tom.
    Rob.
    Yeah, that was actually the idea - that the plane would sit directly on the ball bearing. In appearance, it should look similar to our fearless leader's gimbals, only without the ring magnet under the ball bearing (and the bearing would be the part that is in a fixed position), and it would be the plane that slides to different sides of the bearing's surface, rather than the bearing rotating on the ring magnet.

    In my head, it sounds like it should work OK, but I haven't tried it yet so I'm just not sure. Was curious to see if anyone else had tried that method out.

  45. #145

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    Quote Originally Posted by ColoradoCoppens View Post
    Yeah, that was actually the idea - that the plane would sit directly on the ball bearing. In appearance, it should look similar to our fearless leader's gimbals, only without the ring magnet under the ball bearing (and the bearing would be the part that is in a fixed position), and it would be the plane that slides to different sides of the bearing's surface, rather than the bearing rotating on the ring magnet.

    In my head, it sounds like it should work OK, but I haven't tried it yet so I'm just not sure. Was curious to see if anyone else had tried that method out.
    What method are you going to use to drill it out? A high speed drill may well tear the side out of the aircraft.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  46. #146

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    I use a spare peg, currently, chopped in half

  47. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by ColoradoCoppens View Post
    Still relatively new to the game, and looking into getting Gimbals for my planes. Has anyone tried drilling a hole and inserting rare earth magnets (like these) directly into the underside of the fuselage, so that the magnet is flush with the plane's surface, and then attaching the ball baring to the top peg?

    It seems like the most inconspicuous mounting, although maybe also the most invasive procedure.
    Hi Tom,

    There are couple of issues with your mounting idea. First, I think you will find that there is not enough "contact patch" (stealing a term from the automotive tire world here) with a flat magnet and ball. Take a ball and hold it against a flat surface that you can hold up to the light. You will see there is only a very, very, small amount of the ball touching the surface. While this might be enough to all the magnet to attract the ball, you will find you are trying to balance the entire plane on basically a needle pin. The one thing we have learned over the years about the gimbals, it's not how strong the magnet is (up to a curtain point), it's the amount of friction that keeps the planes held firmly at the angles we want. Secondly, you will also find that many of the minis are going to be very difficult to drill out to fit the entire magnet inside it. Roland C.II and Albatros D.Va minis have metal bodies that are hard to drill without damaging the plastic parts and paints. Small planes like the N17 and such have a small flat plastic bottom with thin side walls forming the fuselage. Those ares are prone to deforming/breaking if you drill too much or too large.

    I can honestly say, I don't even notice the Gimbal mounts on the planes once they are the table. I just see the plane banking and diving. Maybe the other guys could chime in if they still notice them or not.

  48. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    I can honestly say, I don't even notice the Gimbal mounts on the planes once they are the table. I just see the plane banking and diving.
    ^THAT!^

    I wasn't going to use gimbals; I'm not a modeller, I was worried about damaging the aircraft, or making a hash of it in some other way.
    And in the photographs on this site I often thought they looked a bit... obvious.

    Then I played a couple of games with aircraft that always looked like they were flying straight and level, and that looked worse.
    So I thought, what the heck, I'll give it a go.

    I made gimbal pegs, like Kaiser's on page two of this thread; this gave me the most flexibility, and chance to make mistakes, and re-engineer or change my mind later.
    It's an even more conspicuous choice than attaching the ball to the aircraft.

    And while they look obvious in some of the photos, I think that's because of the low angles used, and often a deliberate attempt to make the aircraft look bigger (using zoom, scaled images, stronger contrasts, or even field of focus).
    In real life, usually from a more overhead view, I don't think they draw the attention any more than the pegs themselves.

  49. #149

    ColoradoCoppens
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    Thanks for the input! Honestly, I hadn't even thought of the issue with the small area of surface contact - glad you pointed that out! Normal gimbals it will be for me, then.

    Rob: I would have just used a pinning vice, like I do for other small drilling projects, although I don't know how that would handle the metal undersides of certain planes. It works great on lead & pewter, but I don't know what metal is used on the WOG planes.

  50. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by ColoradoCoppens View Post
    but I don't know what metal is used on the WOG planes.
    I don't know either, but it's pretty hard!

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