Damage order

[NuclearLunchbox]

Didn't see any other thread on this, so I'll ask...

When multiple aircraft need to draw damage cards from the same deck, is there a preferred order in which they are drawn? I wasn't able to find any guidance in the rulebook. Is it more of a gentleman's agreement, sort of a "I'll draw first since you did last time," arrangement?

The issue came up specific to the "explosion" card (or as we play it, the "crap, I'm dead" card). If two aircraft are attacking each other and both pilots need to draw damage cards, the draw order would definitely matter when the second card down is the "explosion" card. (Or, since it's all applied simultaneously, it doesn't matter and you just decide who draws first, as stated above.) Since you don't know whats left in the deck (except for what you already have drawn), I'd imagine it really doesn't matter.

Just wondering what everyone else does.

Cheers...

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Didn't see any other thread on this, so I'll ask...

When multiple aircraft need to draw damage cards from the same deck, is there a preferred order in which they are drawn? I wasn't able to find any guidance in the rulebook. Is it more of a gentleman's agreement, sort of a "I'll draw first since you did last time," arrangement?

The issue came up specific to the "explosion" card (or as we play it, the "crap, I'm dead" card). If two aircraft are attacking each other and both pilots need to draw damage cards, the draw order would definitely matter when the second card down is the "explosion" card. (Or, since it's all applied simultaneously, it doesn't matter and you just decide who draws first, as stated above.) Since you don't know whats left in the deck (except for what you already have drawn), I'd imagine it really doesn't matter.

Just wondering what everyone else does.

Cheers...

Luck of the draw, or more exactly, Lucky Git. You could take it in turns or say, no old chap, after you I insist. As our American friends would say. That's the way the cookie crumbles. Sorry I can't be of any more help than that, but I'm sure it will disturb the ants' nest, and someone will come up with a ten page research paper on this aspect of play.
Rob.

[Oberst Hajj]

Yeah, pretty much luck of the draw. Had the explosion card been the first card, they would be questioning it still.

[Goering Ace]

For Hunter and I we randomly choose and sometimes we alternate who draws first. One game he draws first and maybe the next I do. But most of the time he makes me choose and I usually like to go second.

Scott

[Charlie3]

With us the person who draws first is generally the one who is closest to the deck holder. Since it moves around the table alot, you never know where it is going to be. Sometimes we alternate drawing one at a time when we need to draw two each, but we really have no set way to say who goes first. Never actually thought about it before now. We do have the "I should have let you draw first!" comments occasionally.

[Bruce]

I hate to admit this, but we roll dice to determine who draws first, second, etc. We do this each time two or more aircraft have scored the same type (A or B damage deck) of hits. The same applies to C and D deck damage.

It has eliminated all "chatter" and occasional reluctances to draw cards.

Some of us may be long-since-grown-up men, but we must admit that, at times, we may behave like kids.

[rrodrick]

Drawing chits from a bag and returning them gets rid of this concern, of course. It also introduces the possibility of mutual destruction.

[Angiolillo]

The issue came up specific to the "explosion" card (or as we play it, the "crap, I'm dead" card). If two aircraft are attacking each other and both pilots need to draw damage cards, the draw order would definitely matter when the second card down is the "explosion" card. (Or, since it's all applied simultaneously, it doesn't matter and you just decide who draws first, as stated above.) Since you don't know whats left in the deck (except for what you already have drawn), I'd imagine it really doesn't matter.

I did not rule that since it is not relevant in terms of chances.

The chances that the explosion card is in any point of the remaining deck are the same: if let's say 20 cards are left, there is the same chance that the explosion (or any other relevant card) is on the first, second, third and so on... place. 5% chances for each.
So if you draw first, you have 5% to get the explosion and 95% to get another card (5% for each specific card left).
If you draw second, you have 5% to get the explosion and 95% to get another card (5% for each specific card left).
It's exactly the same. So no need to take turns, roll dices or decide an order whatever.

This is true no matter how many cards are left. The only thing is: all true if there are cards enough for everybody. Not true if there are not cards for everybody: if just one card is left and that's the explosion, the first to draw has a 100% chance to get it...

So what I do is to remix (the cards of previously eliminated planes) only if the deck is not enough for all the people hit in a given phase to draw all the cards needed. But with the content of a basic box, this should not happen - and this is why this is not ruled in the first rulebooks.

Other thing: I also understand that what is arithmetically true about chances can not be true for what people feel, no matter the cold reasoning that can be true but not convince them... so any other system that suits you is good.

>Drawing chits from a bag and returning them gets rid of this concern, of course. It also introduces the possibility of mutual destruction.

Very true. I preferred to leave cards to players (or chjits, in WW2) to avoid them the paperwork to keep track of previous damages.

[Bruce]

I also prefer to have the damage cards because it is easy to see what happened to your aircraft and this helps you to remember the events in the game/sortie.

[Charlie3]

Some of us may be long-since-grown-up men, but we must admit that, at times, we may behave like kids.

DO NOT!-INFINITY!!

[Charlie3]

The chances that the explosion card is in any point of the remaining deck are the same: if let's say 20 cards are left, there is the same chance that the explosion (or any other relevant card) is on the first, second, third and so on... place. 5% chances for each.
So if you draw first, you have 5% to get the explosion and 95% to get another card (5% for each specific card left).
If you draw second, you have 5% to get the explosion and 95% to get another card (5% for each specific card left).
It's exactly the same. So no need to take turns, roll dices or decide an order whatever.

I also understand that what is arithmetically true about chances can not be true for what people feel, no matter the cold reasoning that can be true but not convince them... so any other system that suits you is good.

Thank you for this mathamatical proof! Many is the time that someone at our table says "...I only died because I drew first!" It IS funny how people feel that the drawing order makes a difference.

I think the act of drawing your cards is what makes the game exciting since it creates a sense of anxiousness. Will I make it one more round??

I preferred to leave cards to players (or chjits, in WW2) to avoid them the paperwork to keep track of previous damages.

Thank you for this game mechanic since it does do exactly what you set out to do...reduce record keeping, and keep damage secret. There is no chance of a player recording his damage wrong, and it is obvious when he has reached the end of the line!

[Flying Officer Kyte]

[QUOTE=Charlie3;24338] Thank you for this mathamatical proof! Many is the time that someone at our table says "...I only died because I drew first!" It IS funny how people feel that the drawing order makes a difference.

Look at how many pilots insisted on getting out of bed on the right side. putting on gloves in a certain order, or not sitting in a downed pilots chair etc. Its the same superstition in the game. Don't draw the first card, or don't go second, it will be unlucky.Great isn't it. Just like the real thing.
Rob.

[Charlie3]

Look at how many pilots insisted on getting out of bed on the right side. putting on gloves in a certain order, or not sitting in a downed pilots chair etc. Its the same superstition in the game. Don't draw the first card, or don't go second, it will be unlucky.Great isn't it. Just like the real thing.
Rob.

Yeah I don't get it, I simply rub my lucky rabbit's foot and kiss my four leaf clover medal 3 times before I draw a card. Works almost every other time!

[LGKR]

Yeah I don't get it, I simply rub my lucky rabbit's foot and kiss my four leaf clover medal 3 times before I draw a card. Works almost every other time!

Charlie, I don't think I want to know what AB kisses for his goodluck.

[Charlie3]

Charlie, I don't think I want to know what AB kisses for his goodluck.

Doesn't matter he always seems to have jammed guns anyway

[MayorJim]

Hmmm...we remove the explosion card as a matter of course. As far as draw order...never gave it any thought since damage is simultaneous. I realize that "simultaneously" I could draw an engine damage and a 5 while my partner/enemy could draw 2 zeros...but really? Who cares? As long as I'm close to the booze and snacks...just love the game for the experience.