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Thread: On this day 2 June - Billy Bishop and the German Aerodrome

  1. #1

    Default On this day 2 June - Billy Bishop and the German Aerodrome

    William Avery "Billy" Bishop

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    The 2nd of June 1917 is a date known to anyone familiar with William Avery "Billy" Bishop. He was awarded the Victoria Cross for his actions in attacking a German-held aerodrome, shooting down three planes.

    The following excerpt of that event is from http://www.constable.ca/caah/bbishop.htm

    Early in the morning of June 2, 1917 Bishop was up and ready to raid the Germans. He tried to get Willy Fry to come with him, but Fry had a serious hangover from the night's party and refused to get out of bed. So Bish went alone. He flew over the lines and headed for Cambrai towards the aerodrome he had chosen for his attack. He arrived just as the sun came up and found no activity and no planes at all. The place was deserted. He circled around for a bit thinking and waiting to see if anyone would show up. No one did. He left angry, flying at random trying to find something to shoot up. He was about to head for home when he saw the buildings of another aerodrome to one side. He banked sharply and headed for them. It was Estourmel, the home of Jadgstaffel 5 headed by Staffel Fuhrer Lt. Werner Voss. Seven aircraft, a two-seat Rumpler recon. plane and six Albatros scout aircraft (reported by Bishop to be DIIs, although Voss's Staffel no longer used the type), were lined up, motors running waiting for the pilots and observer.

    Bishop banked and dived, coming in perpendicular to the flight line and fired a 97-round drum of 0.303 bullets into the aircraft, killing one mechanic. Then he pulled off doing a series of slow-speed turns waiting for an Albatros to come up to challenge him. The ground troops got several machine guns into action and nearly hit Bishop. A rookie pilot warming his engine accepted the challenge and took off. But his engine wasn't fully warmed up and he couldn't get enough power to take off easily. Bishop swooped around onto his tail and fired dropping the aircraft onto the field. Another Albatros took off and Bishop circled around to his 6 o'clock and fired but missed the pilot. The German swerved and hit a tree, mangling the wings and dropping the aircraft. Neither pilot was injured.

    Now his real troubles began. Two Albatroses took off together. Going for the nearest plane he began a circling contest for a firing position. With two opponents this is usually suicide, however, one German pilot stayed out of the action, presumably he thought to give his compatriot the honour of downing the arrogant Brit. The Nieuport was a tighter turner than the DIII and Bishop finally got in a clear shot, dropping the DIII onto the field. He swung head on towards the fourth German and fired the entire drum of 0.303 ammunition at him. missing completely. But this seems to have unnerved the German pilot, he swung away and landed.

    Bishop pulled away from Estourmel with a jammed gun, afraid the Germans on the ground would have telephoned nearby Jastas for help. Near the front lines he spotted a flight of DIIIs and stayed immediately beneath them until he could make a run for the front lines. The Germans rarely chased an Allied pilot across the lines. He made his way back to his base. Unharmed and jubilant. He was awarded the Victoria Cross for this audacious action. But he earned the distrust of some of his comrades, they believed he had become too ambitious and may have made up the attack.

    However, others have called Bishop’s claims into question. According to Brereton Greenhous:

    … the entirely fictitious dawn raid on a German airfield that brought him his Victoria Cross. Most German air records were destroyed in Second World War bombing, but some survived and, unfortunately for Bishop, among them was the Weekly Activity Report of the Second Army air commander, Kommandeur der Flieger, Armee 2, for the week in question. KoFl.2 being the man over whose sector of the Western Front Bishop claimed to have flown that day, 2 June 1917, while admitting he was unable to identify the field he said he had attacked.

    KoFl.2’s report for the week ending 6 June goes into considerable detail about “enemy [i.e., British] air activity.” At night, “a new tactic noted was the firing of a few rounds of small-calibre ammunition into the illuminated area; this practice was noted on 4 June .... The airfield of Jagdstaffel Boelcke was bombed during the night of 3/4 and 5/6 June; no damage was inflicted.” But not a word does it have to say about a daylight attack on any of his airfields. Yet it would have been very important that all his subordinates and fellow army air commanders be made aware of such a raid, had it occurred. After all, it might be their turn next, and damage could be minimized if they were forewarned of this new tactic.

    His report also lists, by name and unit, all German air battle casualties in the 2 Armee zone, day-by-day. On 2 June, Bishop claimed to have shot down one machine “just above the ground” that crashed on the airfield, another one “just off the ground” that crashed into a tree from a low height, and a third that fell a thousand feet before “crashing to the ground where it lay in a field, a few hundred yards from the aerodrome.” It is surely inconceivable that none of the three pilots was even injured, but KoFl.2 does not list any casualty on that day. Nor is it possible to argue that there was some delay in reporting losses, for on 3 June the only casualty was an observer of Flieger Abteilung (Artillerie) 269, “killed in aerial combat.” And whatever Bishop zealots may claim, German record keeping was meticulous.

    Finally, we might note that when the RAF Museum in England put out a first-day cover with a stamp celebrating the sixtieth anniversary of the alleged raid, three of his four surviving comrades from those halcyon days declined to sign it. Being gentlemen of the old school (unlike your humble author), they also declined to give their reasons, but the reader is at liberty to guess what they may have been.

    Greenhous’ article can be found here: http://www.journal.forces.gc.ca/vo3/.../61-64-eng.pdf

  2. #2

    Exclamation

    This is one of my own "Hobby Horses" & I have put in a lot of research on this supposed attack.
    Apart from Greenhous who I might add is a Canadian Historian & amongst others who have discounted Bishops story is the noted Historian & Author Alex Revell.
    One of Bishops fellow Squadron members who was also his deputy flight commander Wing Commander (then Ltn.) Willie Fry wrote a letter to be opened after his death setting out all his doubts about Bishop including the fact that Bishop returned to his own airfield minus his Foster mounted Lewis gun. Fry found evidence of powder burns to the bullet holes in Bishops Nieuport 17 that indicated to him that Bishop had actually shot up his own aircraft to show "battle" damage. Amongst the Pilots who refused to sign the commemorative were Fry & "Grid" Caldwell the respected New Zealand Ace who was in Bishops Sqd. at the time.

    Another telling thing was that Josef Mai the German Ace whose airfield was supposed to be the one Bishop attacked was also asked to sign which he initially did (he did not read English) but when it was explained to him the reason he immediately scratched out his signature!

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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by gully_raker View Post
    This is one of my own "Hobby Horses" & I have put in a lot of research on this supposed attack.
    I fear that I share your... hesitation, Barry, Not to be a hater, but I have a difficult time swallowing what appears one whale of a fish story! Too many, to my liking, of Bishop's exploits are unconfirmed.

    Give me McCudden any day, and twice on Sunday.

  4. #4

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    There is certainly a question mark over this exploit. There is certainly the smell of the fishmonger's slab about it.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  5. #5

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    It is interesting the amount of discrepancies I saw in historical records while writing the daily events last year on the Anchorage; similarly, I have seen some this year while writing some of the dailies here. Those discrepancies, though, typically were about minor details. This is one of the first events, if memory serves me correctly, in which there is serious question not only regarding the event's occurrence in total, but the truthfulness of the major participant in general.

    Greenhous' article is well worth reading. I bookmarked the associated journal; so many worthwhile resources available to us today.

  6. #6

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    Bishops's final mission has a similar "smell"..............

    Knowing he was being sent back to England, because he was 'too important to risk losing him' he cemented his claim to be the highest-scoring Entente pilot at that time by flying one last mission.

    He took off alone (again), and when he returned he claimed FIVE enemy aircraft shot down; one two-seater and four Pfalz scouts.

    As with the Aerodrome raid, there was no confirmation from the Army, no witnesses of any kind.
    British records for the day show air activity to be "light" since the weather was poor.
    German records show air activity as "very light". They record the loss of just ONE aircraft, a Pfalz, which was defending a balloon. Bishop made no mention of a balloon in his report.

    Make of that what you will.

  7. #7

    Lightbulb

    Here is an article by Bereton Greenhous from a Historical Magazine you might find interesting!

    Bishop file.pdf

  8. #8

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    I'm having trouble opening the above file. It just sends me to a blank page. Is this because I am on a mobile device or are others experiencing the same thing?

  9. #9

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    Not working for me on my P.C. either Wes.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  10. #10

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    Puts a whole new perspective on Bishop, shame.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7eat51 View Post
    It is interesting the amount of discrepancies I saw in historical records while writing the daily events last year on the Anchorage; similarly, I have seen some this year while writing some of the dailies here. Those discrepancies, though, typically were about minor details. This is one of the first events, if memory serves me correctly, in which there is serious question not only regarding the event's occurrence in total, but the truthfulness of the major participant in general.

    Greenhous' article is well worth reading. I bookmarked the associated journal; so many worthwhile resources available to us today.
    Still makes for a great story....an enjoyable read non the less.

  12. #12

    Question

    Sorry chaps!
    Dont know why it wont open.
    I tried re posting but no luck. As its a PDF it should be a valid file.
    Anyway I will try a few more things & see if I can get it to work.

  13. #13

    Default

    At the bottom of the original post is a link to the article. The associated journal is a wonderful resource: http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...light=canadian

  14. #14

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    I figure every side in every war has its share of glory-whores -- hell, look at that self-aggrandizing nitwit Randall Cunningham, or John Schofield, or....

  15. #15

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    Truth will out. With the proper research! Thank you for that, it's good to know that everything told isn't always so.
    As with eat, I have witnessed an incident reported by one news agency, that then ran with others using the original report as a basis for the truth (ehem or perspective), the reality wasn't quite so juicy. Although horrific for the person in question.

  16. #16

    Default

    I find the whole thing very sad. In Scouting I have come across people like this(ie Bishop). People that will do incredible things, and make bewildering claims for what they see as glory and self aggrandizement. It puzzles me, that people can be so unhappy with who they are to go to any lengths to make themselves look a certain way to others. That said, obviously all of Bishops claims can't be fiction. There must be some tails that have been validated and supported. It seems that most of the contemporaries to Bishop, ie other pilots, were dissatisfied with Bishop as a person and not necessarily as a pilot. Could be wrong there though as I really don't know a lot about Bishop. Just my 2 cents.

  17. #17

    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by prymus View Post
    I find the whole thing very sad. In Scouting I have come across people like this(ie Bishop). People that will do incredible things, and make bewildering claims for what they see as glory and self aggrandizement. It puzzles me, that people can be so unhappy with who they are to go to any lengths to make themselves look a certain way to others. That said, obviously all of Bishops claims can't be fiction. There must be some tails that have been validated and supported. It seems that most of the contemporaries to Bishop, ie other pilots, were dissatisfied with Bishop as a person and not necessarily as a pilot. Could be wrong there though as I really don't know a lot about Bishop. Just my 2 cents.
    G'day William!
    Actually Bishop was a very charismatic personality & was very popular in 60 Sqd.
    It took quite a while until Sqd mates like Willie Fry & NZ ace "Grid" Caldwell started to get the feeling things were not "Kosher". Most of Bishops claims were for flying alone & rarely when flying with his Flight.
    He would go swanning off on his own & leave Willie Fry, his Deputy Flight leade,r to lead the rest of the Flight.
    There was one incident when Bishop & Fry were sent up to chase off a German Recon aircraft sniffing around 60 Sqd's airfield. They did this & Fry was astounded when after they landed Bishop told the recording officer they had shot it down! Fry thought to himself "Must have missed that" but as Bishop was already a celebrity thought it best not to question his Flight Commander.

    Bishop was aided in his claims by Major Scott the Sqd C.O who was also a "glory hunter" & wanted 60 to be acknowledged as THE best RFC Sqd at the Front.

    His recommendation for Bishops VC was sent through some of his High ranking Mates at Army HQ & NOT through the correct RFC channels.

    There has been a huge amount of work over the past 30 years in trying to match claims & losses on both sides by a raft of dedicated historians & very, very few of Bishops claims can be matched especially the infamous Aerodrome Raid which resulted in the VC!

    If you want a great read grab a copy of Bereton Greenhous's book "The Making of Billy Bishop! There is a review in the Book Review section.

  18. #18

    Default

    Thanks Barry, good stuff there I have just finished Rickenbacker' Fighting the Flying Circus, one of the Time Life Wings of War series, and was looking at the Bishop book, Winged Warfare, from the same series. Even a rank novice like me can see problems with Rickenbacker' book. Darn near every plane he saw was a "Fokker", seems he flew against every Fokker ever made! But I still found the book a fun read. So I'll probably get the Time Life Bishop book and read it understanding that some of the info could be suspect. Like Rickenbacker stated in his book, it was often very hard to get verification of a kill, and as he further wrote, a lot of kills went unverified. With that in mind I can see how a pilot may want to fudge the facts now and then. Then again, how badly does one desire to be known as a man with unquestioned integrity. Easy question, very hard to answer. Plus, I understand we're not allowed to have those type of discussions here, thank God(oooops)

  19. #19

    Default

    Sad this and how very similar to another person on the other side, who shall remain nameless in white.

    Quote Originally Posted by gully_raker View Post
    G'day William!
    Actually Bishop was a very charismatic personality & was very popular in 60 Sqd.
    It took quite a while until Sqd mates like Willie Fry & NZ ace "Grid" Caldwell started to get the feeling things were not "Kosher". Most of Bishops claims were for flying alone & rarely when flying with his Flight.
    He would go swanning off on his own & leave Willie Fry, his Deputy Flight leade,r to lead the rest of the Flight.
    There was one incident when Bishop & Fry were sent up to chase off a German Recon aircraft sniffing around 60 Sqd's airfield. They did this & Fry was astounded when after they landed Bishop told the recording officer they had shot it down! Fry thought to himself "Must have missed that" but as Bishop was already a celebrity thought it best not to question his Flight Commander.

    Bishop was aided in his claims by Major Scott the Sqd C.O who was also a "glory hunter" & wanted 60 to be acknowledged as THE best RFC Sqd at the Front.

    His recommendation for Bishops VC was sent through some of his High ranking Mates at Army HQ & NOT through the correct RFC channels.

    There has been a huge amount of work over the past 30 years in trying to match claims & losses on both sides by a raft of dedicated historians & very, very few of Bishops claims can be matched especially the infamous Aerodrome Raid which resulted in the VC!

    If you want a great read grab a copy of Bereton Greenhous's book "The Making of Billy Bishop! There is a review in the Book Review section.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  20. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by prymus View Post
    Darn near every plane he saw was a "Fokker",
    Given Rickenbacker was close enough to the Old Country to still have a bit of an accent, I wonder if... shall we say... "those Fokkers were flying Albatroses".... >;)



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