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Thread: Pour me a Sunderland

  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    I was serious when I suggested Zoe. I have never met anyone with such an in depth knowledge over such a vast area as she has.
    Rob.
    I know you were serious about Zoe as a source, it was the following comment about the crews I was winking at.

    And with that post, I'm up for a new medal!

    Mike

  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    I don't know. I was going by pictures and info from online sources. Who knows how accurate they are? One write-up suggests that the images on Wing Pallet are wrong: Sunderland.html.

    I can amend the cards, as I have the turret drawing as a starting point, anyway. I just need "experts" to guide my floundering.

    Mike
    Mike,
    From your linked source (my bold): 'A total of 75 Sunderland I's were built by Shorts and a further 15 by Blackburns when an improvement in performance was made by replacing the Pegasus XXIIs with Pegasus XVIIIs with two-speed superchargers. At the same time a two-gun Botha-type F.N.7 turret replaced the two open K-gun mountings and the F.N.13 tail turrets with 500 rounds per gun were replaced by the F.N.4a which carried 1,000 r.p.g. The resulting aircraft was the Sunderland II.'

    I'm afraid I tend to take 'Wings Palette' with a large grain of salt. It's not unusual to find the same aircraft, though an image taken from a different book, identified by two contributors on Wings Palette as different units, marques, etc. It is after all simply a compendium of 'enthusiast's contributions': I don't know what if any governance there is applied to the inputs. Though by no means foolproof, I find this a pretty good on-line source - http://www.historyofwar.org/subject_...underland.html - though it always pays to cross-check.

    And congratulations on your 1000th post.
    Last edited by Baldrick62; 05-30-2014 at 12:53. Reason: link added

  3. #53

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    Please let me be the first to congratulate you Mike, and invite you to the bar for a glass of whatever you are drinking.
    Rob.

    O.K. Second then.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    Crew layout for this plane is a different matter. There were aircrew, bombardiers, and gunners. For the Mk I, I can sort out a crew of seven, but the Mk III states 11 crew?
    Not every crewman necessarily fired a gun (tho' it helped if they did). As best I can determine, crew loadout was:

    -- Two pilots
    -- Radio operator
    -- Navigator
    -- Engineer
    -- Bombardier
    -- 3-5 gunners [nose turret; tail turret; dorsal turret or dorsal blisters]

    Of these, only the actual gunners had guns; everyone else was busy with other duties.

  5. #55

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    These Sunderlands are so magnificent that I'm almost to tears!
    I've received today a Sunderland from Ron to paint and offer to Rob and I don't think I can do a job as good as you did, Dave.

  6. #56

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    Something i found on YouTube, it will inspire more Sunderland builds!


    Rich


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BssQCDqZXek

  7. #57

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    Simply spiffing old chap.
    Watched about 15 minutes of it. Will view the rest later.
    Thanks for the find.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  8. #58

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    Rob

    That is how i watched it. Bits and pieces over three days. Very interesting camera work, it lets you know how big those beast were. I also read the comments about the crew members.



    Rich

  9. #59

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    Sorry for the delay,

    Here is the Sunderland Mk I Management Card:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	<acronym title=WGS Sunderland 230Grey Mngmnt Card1.jpg  Views: 132  Size: 168.4 KB  ID: 136507" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />

    The number 3 crew position is the Flight Engineer, Radioman, or Bombardier. Anyway, not a gunner, and could possibly help fly the plane. Landing it would be another question entirely. House rules?

    Mike

  10. #60

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    Please don't apologize for the delay Mike. The cards are superb.
    Thanks so much.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  11. #61

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    Can anyone point me in the direction of Zoe's XS Deck. I have trawled the WW2 files to no avail.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  12. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Can anyone point me in the direction of Zoe's XS Deck. I have trawled the WW2 files to no avail.
    Rob.
    I think you mean Carl Brisgamers' deck:
    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...light=catalina
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  13. #63

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    Cheers for that Karl.
    It was not the deck I had in mind. I have a copy of it already, but you have given me an idea as to how I can manage my Sunderland.
    Thanks.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  14. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Cheers for that Karl.
    It was not the deck I had in mind. I have a copy of it already, but you have given me an idea as to how I can manage my Sunderland.
    Thanks.
    Rob.
    I hope so, because I can't find a reference to an XS deck. XA and XB of course are official, and Zoe made a ZJ, ZM and ZL for slower than standard fighters.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  15. #65

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    Quite simply breathtaking - how is it that one man in his proverbial shed can produce something that stunning when the patron company takes years to bring out a model of a plane few have heard of and fewer want. You are a genius good sir, and I am in awe of your ability.

  16. #66

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    Wow.. nice, your cards and Clippers planes - do we actually need Ares any more? lol
    (only kidding ARES - but these guys are really good...)

  17. #67

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    Chris

    You are correct! They make a great combo!


    Rich

  18. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    I hope so, because I can't find a reference to an XS deck. XA and XB of course are official, and Zoe made a ZJ, ZM and ZL for slower than standard fighters.
    Karl
    Which of the X decks which have a background landscape would you say fitted the Sunderland best Karl?
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  19. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Which of the X decks which have a background landscape would you say fitted the Sunderland best Karl?
    Rob.
    Is there a requirement to provide different backgrounds to the card decks?

    Mike

    PS: It doesn't look like the XS deck is a standard size. How big are they supposed to be printed?

    PPS: 80mm x 44mm. Read the post, Mike.
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 07-24-2014 at 00:24.

  20. #70

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    The XS deck is extended to provide a way of inserting and withdrawing it from under the base of the aircraft Mike. That is why it is longer. For me that is not an option as It won't fit my storage hangers.
    I was hoping that one of the other decks was near enough to work in the same way without having to have the extra length. Or to get the XS deck without the extra bit but printed with sea on it. I'm looking at that as an answer if all else fails, but don't want the work if it can be fudged in some other way.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  21. #71

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    Rob

    Did you look at Max`s bomber decks. They are standard maneuver card size!


    Rich

  22. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by richard m schwab View Post
    Rob

    Did you look at Max`s bomber decks. They are standard maneuver card size!

    Rich
    Rich,

    Where do you find these bomber decks?

    Mike

  23. #73

    Lightbulb

    Mike


    I down loaded some of them. Here is a XS deck. Maybe it will come out. Plus a XA deck.




    Rich
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 5921 (1).jpg   XS Deck.jpg  

  24. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by richard m schwab View Post
    Mike

    I down loaded some of them. Here is a XS deck. Maybe it will come out. Plus a XA deck.

    Rich
    Rich,
    I have the Flight of the Giants XA deck, is this a WWII XA deck?

    The XS deck is not standard sized, and that is the problem Rob has with it. A standard maneuver deck is 68 mm long, and the XS deck is 80 mm, therefore too long for Rob.

    Mike

  25. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Which of the X decks which have a background landscape would you say fitted the Sunderland best Karl?
    Rob.
    I would say the XB deck (B-25s), which has lots of water with some green island action. The XA deck (He.111) is countryside and urban.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    The XS deck is extended to provide a way of inserting and withdrawing it from under the base of the aircraft Mike. That is why it is longer. For me that is not an option as It won't fit my storage hangers.
    I was hoping that one of the other decks was near enough to work in the same way without having to have the extra length. Or to get the XS deck without the extra bit but printed with sea on it. I'm looking at that as an answer if all else fails, but don't want the work if it can be fudged in some other way.
    Rob.
    What I was going to do for these slow planes is to make (or have made ) a deck that you place the card normally, but then the point of the arrow is where the front of the base is placed. A perpendicular line at the arrowtip would make this easier. I'm pretty sure this was brought up elsewhere, so I can't claim credit.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  26. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    I would say the XB deck (B-25s), which has lots of water with some green island action. The XA deck (He.111) is countryside and urban.



    What I was going to do for these slow planes is to make (or have made ) a deck that you place the card normally, but then the point of the arrow is where the front of the base is placed. A perpendicular line at the arrowtip would make this easier. I'm pretty sure this was brought up elsewhere, so I can't claim credit.
    Karl
    I was going to try to do this, but don't have any of the decks for WWII, other than Bf-109s, Hurricanes, and Spits. No medium or large based planes to play test the cards I might print up.

    Very problematic. Maybe I should be on the design team for ARES, so I get samples to work with?

    Mike

    PS: I have WWI bomber bases. How do they compare to WWII bases?
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 07-27-2014 at 08:22. Reason: PS

  27. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post



    What I was going to do for these slow planes is to make (or have made ) a deck that you place the card normally, but then the point of the arrow is where the front of the base is placed. A perpendicular line at the arrowtip would make this easier. I'm pretty sure this was brought up elsewhere, so I can't claim credit.
    Karl
    This sounds a great idea to me Karl. It would solve my problem very nicely.
    Thanks.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  28. #78

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    THE NEXT BURNING QUESTION IS..............
    Short of purchasing a B25 for which I have no use in the Med Malta campaign, where can I get my hands on a set of the water deck B25 cards?
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  29. #79

    Lightbulb

    Mike

    Just found another deck in my files.




    Rich
    Attached Files

  30. #80

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    I was going to use the forthcoming Lancaster deck and stand for my Sunderland, might not be 100% acurate, but will do for me

  31. #81

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    Alastair


    Why not give them a try!


    Rich

  32. #82

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    I will certainly make a set of those Rich thanks.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  33. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    THE NEXT BURNING QUESTION IS..............
    Short of purchasing a B25 for which I have no use in the Med Malta campaign, where can I get my hands on a set of the water deck B25 cards?
    Rob.

    You could ask a nice man if he can change the background of a set of cards he might already have lying around....
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  34. #84

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    Thanks Steve.
    I have just sent you a PM in reply.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  35. #85

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    Rob

    They might come in handy!


    Rich

  36. #86

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    They will all come in handy at some point thanks Rich.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  37. #87

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    A big thanks to Steve, for providing me with a deck for the Sunderlands.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  38. #88
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 02-08-2016 at 14:18.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  39. #89

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    Great stuff as usual Mike.
    many thanks for this.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  40. #90

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    Again great cards, Mike.
    I just can't give you more REP for now...

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