Mike,
From your linked source (my bold): 'A total of 75 Sunderland I's were built by Shorts and a further 15 by Blackburns when an improvement in performance was made by replacing the Pegasus XXIIs with Pegasus XVIIIs with two-speed superchargers. At the same time a two-gun Botha-type F.N.7 turret replaced the two open K-gun mountings and the F.N.13 tail turrets with 500 rounds per gun were replaced by the F.N.4a which carried 1,000 r.p.g. The resulting aircraft was the Sunderland II.'
I'm afraid I tend to take 'Wings Palette' with a large grain of salt. It's not unusual to find the same aircraft, though an image taken from a different book, identified by two contributors on Wings Palette as different units, marques, etc. It is after all simply a compendium of 'enthusiast's contributions': I don't know what if any governance there is applied to the inputs. Though by no means foolproof, I find this a pretty good on-line source - http://www.historyofwar.org/subject_...underland.html - though it always pays to cross-check.
And congratulations on your 1000th post.
Last edited by Baldrick62; 05-30-2014 at 12:53. Reason: link added
Please let me be the first to congratulate you Mike, and invite you to the bar for a glass of whatever you are drinking.
Rob.
O.K. Second then.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
Not every crewman necessarily fired a gun (tho' it helped if they did). As best I can determine, crew loadout was:
-- Two pilots
-- Radio operator
-- Navigator
-- Engineer
-- Bombardier
-- 3-5 gunners [nose turret; tail turret; dorsal turret or dorsal blisters]
Of these, only the actual gunners had guns; everyone else was busy with other duties.
These Sunderlands are so magnificent that I'm almost to tears!
I've received today a Sunderland from Ron to paint and offer to Rob and I don't think I can do a job as good as you did, Dave.
Something i found on YouTube, it will inspire more Sunderland builds!
Rich
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BssQCDqZXek
Simply spiffing old chap.
Watched about 15 minutes of it. Will view the rest later.
Thanks for the find.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
Rob
That is how i watched it. Bits and pieces over three days. Very interesting camera work, it lets you know how big those beast were. I also read the comments about the crew members.
Rich
Sorry for the delay,
Here is the Sunderland Mk I Management Card:
WGS Sunderland 230Grey Mngmnt Card1.jpg Views: 132 Size: 168.4 KB ID: 136507" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />
The number 3 crew position is the Flight Engineer, Radioman, or Bombardier. Anyway, not a gunner, and could possibly help fly the plane. Landing it would be another question entirely. House rules?
Mike
Please don't apologize for the delay Mike. The cards are superb.
Thanks so much.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
Can anyone point me in the direction of Zoe's XS Deck. I have trawled the WW2 files to no avail.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
I think you mean Carl Brisgamers' deck:
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...light=catalina
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
Cheers for that Karl.
It was not the deck I had in mind. I have a copy of it already, but you have given me an idea as to how I can manage my Sunderland.
Thanks.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
Quite simply breathtaking - how is it that one man in his proverbial shed can produce something that stunning when the patron company takes years to bring out a model of a plane few have heard of and fewer want. You are a genius good sir, and I am in awe of your ability.
Wow.. nice, your cards and Clippers planes - do we actually need Ares any more? lol
(only kidding ARES - but these guys are really good...)
Chris
You are correct! They make a great combo!
Rich
Last edited by OldGuy59; 07-24-2014 at 00:24.
The XS deck is extended to provide a way of inserting and withdrawing it from under the base of the aircraft Mike. That is why it is longer. For me that is not an option as It won't fit my storage hangers.
I was hoping that one of the other decks was near enough to work in the same way without having to have the extra length. Or to get the XS deck without the extra bit but printed with sea on it. I'm looking at that as an answer if all else fails, but don't want the work if it can be fudged in some other way.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
Rob
Did you look at Max`s bomber decks. They are standard maneuver card size!
Rich
Mike
I down loaded some of them. Here is a XS deck. Maybe it will come out. Plus a XA deck.
Rich
I would say the XB deck (B-25s), which has lots of water with some green island action. The XA deck (He.111) is countryside and urban.
What I was going to do for these slow planes is to make (or have made ) a deck that you place the card normally, but then the point of the arrow is where the front of the base is placed. A perpendicular line at the arrowtip would make this easier. I'm pretty sure this was brought up elsewhere, so I can't claim credit.
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
I was going to try to do this, but don't have any of the decks for WWII, other than Bf-109s, Hurricanes, and Spits. No medium or large based planes to play test the cards I might print up.
Very problematic. Maybe I should be on the design team for ARES, so I get samples to work with?
Mike
PS: I have WWI bomber bases. How do they compare to WWII bases?
Last edited by OldGuy59; 07-27-2014 at 08:22. Reason: PS
THE NEXT BURNING QUESTION IS..............
Short of purchasing a B25 for which I have no use in the Med Malta campaign, where can I get my hands on a set of the water deck B25 cards?
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
Mike
Just found another deck in my files.
Rich
I was going to use the forthcoming Lancaster deck and stand for my Sunderland, might not be 100% acurate, but will do for me
Alastair
Why not give them a try!
Rich
I will certainly make a set of those Rich thanks.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
Thanks Steve.
I have just sent you a PM in reply.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
Rob
They might come in handy!
Rich
They will all come in handy at some point thanks Rich.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
A big thanks to Steve, for providing me with a deck for the Sunderlands.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
Updates:
Mark I's with waist gunners:
WGS Sunderland MkI 10AllGrey Plane Card.jpg Views: 32 Size: 135.4 KB ID: 187033" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />
WGS Sunderland MkI 10AllGrey Mgmnt Card.jpg Views: 32 Size: 160.4 KB ID: 187034" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />
Mark IIIs with center Dorsal Turret:
WGS Sunderland MkIII 10AllGrey Mgmnt Card1.jpg Views: 31 Size: 150.2 KB ID: 187036" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />
WGS Sunderland MkIII 10AllGrey Plane Card1a.jpg Views: 31 Size: 139.8 KB ID: 187035" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />
Please be advised, as per the discussion above, there are anywhere from eight to ten crew on the plane, so House Rules are required for any incapacitated gunners. Possibly, you could House Rule injuries to the pilots, as there were relief pilots on long patrols.
Last edited by OldGuy59; 02-08-2016 at 14:18.
Mike
"Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
"Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59
Great stuff as usual Mike.
many thanks for this.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
Again great cards, Mike.
I just can't give you more REP for now...
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