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Thread: Pour me a Sunderland

  1. #1

    Default Pour me a Sunderland

    Sorry guys, got behind recently with a pleurisy attack and had to spend some time away from the bench . . .



    the Elves got carried away and when I looked up they had poured a few Sunderlands . . . not the wood ones I promised, but they are better IMHO



    Now to get them trimmed and filled . . .

  2. #2

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    They look very nice, David.
    But please get some rest (yes, I know modeling is rest for you); pleurisy is nothing to fool with
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  3. #3

    Dom S's Avatar
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    Default

    Not exacerbated by the inhalation of immense quantities of spray paints I hope....

  4. #4

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    Thanks! Its a childhood lung infection that has returned now that I am in my third childhood . . . cost of never growing up!

  5. #5

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    May you never grow up Dave, just keep the pleurisy at bay though.
    Have you thought about changing your location on your profile to Neverland perhaps!
    Love the Sunderlands.

  6. #6

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    Looking good David, at the same time I wish you a speedy recovery.

  7. #7

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    <- wonders if Clipper is old enough to have a second bar mitzvah...

    [Kirk Douglas, when he reached 83 years of age, held a second bar mitzvah for himself; according to him, "The Bible says a normal human lifespan is three-score-and-ten, or 70 years; so by reaching 83, I'm far enough into a second lifetime...."]

  8. #8

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    Great looking casts Dave.
    I have only suffered a very mild attack of Pleurisy some years ago, but I know how debilitating that was, so do take care, and get plenty of rest if you can.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  9. #9

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    Feeling better . . .



    Outer wing floats production well underway, all trimming and filling and sanding need to be done before adding the struts!



    Struts slip into holes drilled into wing bottoms



    Looking ready to paint!


  10. #10

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    Which mark of Sunderlands? Just looking up firing arcs and such. It makes a difference, in where and how many guns...

    Mike

  11. #11

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    Nothing like a bit of R&R hobby making whilst recuperating. But I do hope you are just giving the orders and the elves are doing all the hard work. Get well soon David and look after yourself.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    Which mark of Sunderlands? Just looking up firing arcs and such. It makes a difference, in where and how many guns...

    Mike
    Mike check my thread under Hobby Room where the project was started as wood, there were several nice profiles by Zoe et al. I was thinking Mark 1 or 3 at the moment, any requests Rob, Doug, Zoe?

  13. #13

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    Mike, I did find a Sunderland card in the files section, not sure who did it . . . its a Mk 1

  14. #14

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    Dave,
    You have better eyes than I. It is also pretty late. My house elves are dragging me off to sleep...

    Mike

  15. #15

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    As Malta got all the cast offs i would suggest a Mark one. I believe I have a mark three in the offing.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  16. #16

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    David your work is amazing! Next time we play I hope we can attend services as well. God bless and keep well.

    Thomas

  17. #17

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    We are getting closer!



    A most challenging pour to do with squish casting process - voids and bubbles oh my! Thankful for micro-balloons, epoxy, green stuff and filler!



    Now to the paint shop! Elves!

  18. #18

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    Nice looking craft there David, and glad to hear you're doing better. Take care.
    P.S. I love green stuff.

  19. #19

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    Very cool! I just discovered the model I molded was a copy of a copy of a German WWII identification model produced to train the German military during the war! Yikes!

  20. #20

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    Not at all bad for a third generation mould then.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  21. #21

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    First of the fleet! Not quite done yet though . . .



    Second offering . . .



    And together with a little friend . . .



    Playing with weathering . . .



    Now to rig some propeller disks and contrive a mount . . .

  22. #22

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    Sorry Clipper, can't support this....now if you were pouring a Newcastle then that would be different.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skafloc View Post
    Sorry Clipper, can't support this....now if you were pouring a Newcastle then that would be different.
    Whoa, no need to be a purist on us, Neil; you should broaden your drinking horizons
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  24. #24

  25. #25

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    Great looking Sunderlands, David. Amazing work.

  26. #26

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    They are indeed fine looking beasts Dave. When I mount mine I am going to have something that will enable me to make it land on my sea mat.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  27. #27

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    Very nice Dave, you get a true sense of size when placed next to F4F.

  28. #28

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    The start of a card for the Sunderland:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	<acronym title=WGS Sunderland 230Grey Mngmnt Card.jpg  Views: 182  Size: 182.3 KB  ID: 133917" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />

    Hmmm... The image is of a Mk II. I'll have to amend it a bit.

    With 9-11 crew, and three gunners, bomb loaders, etc... not sure how to put this card together. Can bomb loaders exchange with gunners?

    Mk I:
    Twin .303 Nose Turret
    Single .303 Waist Guns Left and Right
    Quad .303 Tail Turret

    Mk II:
    Twin .303 Nose Turret
    Single .50 Waist Guns Left and Right
    (Late models had a Twin .303 Dorsal Turret, as in the card above)
    Quad .303 Tail Turret

    Mk III:
    Twin .303 Nose Turret
    Single .50 Waist Guns Left and Right
    Quad .303 Tail Turret

    Mk IIIa:
    Twin .303 Nose Turret
    Four Fixed .303 Nose guns (pilot controlled), just aft of the nose turret.
    Single .50 Waist Guns Left and Right
    Quad .303 Tail Turret

    I have no idea for a maneuver deck and damage, either. Suggestions?

    Mike

  29. #29

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    For other stats, here's what I whipped up (Zoe can check my math):
    Mk.I: Maneuver deck (*) Hits: 42; Ceiling: 7; Climb: 9
    Mk.III: Maneuver deck: (*) Hits: 46; Ceiling: 6; Climb: 9

    For the maneuver deck, see Carl Brisgamer's solution for slow planes: http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...g-Catalina-PBY
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  30. #30

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    I found Carl's deck worked very well, but managed to slip them under without the extension bit at the back for ease of handling. That meant that they fitted my existing storage hangers O.K.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  31. #31

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    Dave

    Very nice. Add that bulge under the outer wing pattern it could a MK III or V. I was looking at the Osprey book on theses at lunch!


    Rich

  32. #32

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    Here's the latest out of the paint shop!





    Tri colors





    This could get addicting . . .


  33. #33

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    Those are simply magnificent!

  34. #34

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    Superb.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  35. #35

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    Those are crackers. Not nuts crackers but fantastic.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  36. #36

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    And now for something completely different from all the other cards that are exactly like this one...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	<acronym title=WGS Sunderland 230Grey Planet Card.jpg  Views: 168  Size: 152.7 KB  ID: 134118" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />
    [Edit: Index and Arrow added, Armament Adjusted]

    Need to finish the Management Card, but you can play with this one.

    Water background courtesy of Google Earth. Strait of Gibraltar.

    Mike

    PS: For the other color schemes, don't make me look up the squadron numbers and crew names. Please post them for more custom cards.
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 05-28-2014 at 17:19.

  37. #37

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    Ideal for my scenarios Mike. As far as I can find out the Sunderlands used on Malta did not have the camo adopted in any way from the one depicted, unless of course someone knows different.
    What a star you are.
    P.S. Will it be going into your aircraft folder, or the files?
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  38. #38

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    Rob,
    Many thanks for the Rep. More of that and I'll be over the 800 mark.

    I am looking at the other planes Dave has done up, and can do cards for each color scheme. I also (now) have the line drawings for Mk I and III planes, and the turreted Mk IIa. So, cards for each are possible.

    I found a website that gave the RAF colours as RGB values, so I can "match" historical colours "exactly" on the cards. The above card uses the Extra Dark Sea Grey and Dark Slate Grey of the 1941 Maritime Group.

    Drat! I missed the Index and Arrow. Standby for a fix.

    Mike
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 05-28-2014 at 12:42. Reason: Missed stuff

  39. #39

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    There,

    I fixed it. There are probably other changes needed.

    Mike

  40. #40

  41. #41

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    Two other color schemes:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	<acronym title=WGS Sunderland 230GreyWhite Plane Card.jpg  Views: 172  Size: 153.6 KB  ID: 134120" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />
    [Edit: This could be 230 Sqn, based on Clipper1801's paint job. Hope that is right.]
    It is not known exactly when the White scheme was adopted for Sunderlands but it appears to have been sometime in the first half of 1942. Evidence for this is found in AMO A.664/42 dated 2nd July 1942. It gave two separate schemes for RAF flying boats. The first scheme was for Flying Boats, Floatplanes and Amphibians (other than Target Aircraft) which were to be camouflaged with the Temperate Sea Scheme on the upper surfaces and Sky on the under surfaces. It then went on to specifically mention the Sunderland Flying Boat separate from the Flying Boat category stating that Sunderland aircraft were to be finished in the Temperate Sea Scheme on their upper surfaces with White under surfaces.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	<acronym title=WGS Sunderland 10AllGrey Plane Card.jpg  Views: 169  Size: 152.6 KB  ID: 134122" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />
    [Edit: Redone as a Mk III from 10 Sqn RAAF, based on Clipper1801's paint job. Hope that is right.]
    On 30th December 1942 HQ Coastal Command wrote to the Air Ministry stating that the camouflage of Coastal Command aircraft had been under review in light of its wartime experience. It was proposed that the Temperate Sea Scheme disruptive pattern be eliminated from the upper surfaces of all Coastal Command aircraft as it was considered that the pattern was of no advantage and required much extra effort in its application. It was therefore proposed that a single plain colour, Extra Dark Sea Grey, be used in its place. It was also proposed that where different colours met, they should do so in a straight line without “waving” or other form of merging and that the under surface colour should always be carried up just over the leading edges of the mainplanes. Thus it was proposed that Sunderlands be camouflaged in Extra Dark Sea Grey and White to Pattern No 2.

    Source: Early Short Sunderland colours

    Mike
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 05-28-2014 at 23:51. Reason: Add Mk III

  42. #42

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    Amazing!!!! Beautiful job David!!!

  43. #43

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    So, the firing arcs on this were easy.

    Crew layout for this plane is a different matter. There were aircrew, bombardiers, and gunners. For the Mk I, I can sort out a crew of seven, but the Mk III states 11 crew? Are the bombardiers and gunners interchangeable?

    Anyone got some info or house rules I can use to hammer out the management card(s)?

    Mike

  44. #44

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    Sorry Mike.
    You know more about it than I do. I bet Zoe knows, and probably all the crews names as well. I'd try her first.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    [...] I bet Zoe knows, and probably all the crews names as well. [...]
    Rob.
    If I didn't know how much you respected her and her knowledge, I'd think that bordered really close to a jibe.

    Mike

  46. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    [Edit: Redone as a Mk III from 10 Sqn RAAF, based on Clipper1801's paint job.
    Except that Mk.III Sunderlands had a dorsal turret (actually introduced on the Mk.II) rather than the 2 'cutout' MG positions. Later Mk.IIIs (based on a 10 Sqn RAAF field mod) also boasted 4 fixed MGs in the nose operated by the pilot, in addition to the bow turret.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ShortSunderlandMkIIIcutaway.jpg 
Views:	157 
Size:	244.4 KB 
ID:	134247
    Last edited by Baldrick62; 05-30-2014 at 12:24. Reason: image added

  47. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baldrick62 View Post
    Except that Mk.III Sunderlands had a dorsal turret rather than the 2 'cutout' MG positions.
    So, I am reading the wrong references? Some Mk IIIs had .50 cal waist guns, and the Mk IIIa had the turret. Or so I thought I read?

    I used to be confused, now I just don't know.

    Mike

  48. #48

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    I though the main distinguishing feature of the Mk.IIIa was the underwing radar, though I've also read somewhere that the cheek guns were made an 'official' mod on the IIIa.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	sunderland3.jpg 
Views:	155 
Size:	134.6 KB 
ID:	134248

  49. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    If I didn't know how much you respected her and her knowledge, I'd think that bordered really close to a jibe.

    Mike
    I was serious when I suggested Zoe. I have never met anyone with such an in depth knowledge over such a vast area as she has.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  50. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baldrick62 View Post
    I though the main distinguishing feature of the Mk.IIIa was the underwing radar.
    I don't know. I was going by pictures and info from online sources. Who knows how accurate they are? One write-up suggests that the images on Wing Pallet are wrong: Sunderland.html.

    I can amend the cards, as I have the turret drawing as a starting point, anyway. I just need "experts" to guide my floundering.

    Mike

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