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Thread: Beaufighters in WGS -- Unrealistically Powerful?

  1. #1

    Default Beaufighters in WGS -- Unrealistically Powerful?

    We've been recently playing Battle of Britain scenarios with WGS, and in each game the Allies have a Beaufighter. Usually there's about three planes per side.

    During play, we've found that if a Beaufighter ever gets the chance to take a close-range shot at somebody, that somebody usually instantly becomes a flying ball of scrap metal and burning petrol. Boom to you, hurrah, hurrah, and God save the King.

    Seriously, though, I've read other posts on this board about the Beaufighter, and now I'm wondering what the general consensus is ...
    ... is the Beaufighter too powerful in WGS game play?

    Yes, it's less maneuverable than German BF 109s, but the Beaufighter apparently over compensates by having three times the BF 109's firepower. I'm beginning to think, however, that I've simply become lazy in my dogfighting tactics, and that maybe if I truly used the abilities of a BF 109 to the max, it could hammer a Beaufighter with bullets while simultaneously avoiding the Beaufighter's heavy attack. Am I right in that, or do the Beaufighter's maneuver cards make it too difficult to avoid eventually being targeted by it on a typical gaming table?

    I've also seen the debates regarding whether a Beaufighter could effectively use Immelmann's in a dogfighting situation. Should Immelmanns be removed from a Beaufighter's maneuver deck? Or maybe a Beaufighter could be allowed to do a limited number of Immelmanns during a dogfight before running the risk of taking damage from the stress to the wings?

    I've read the Beaufighter in real life was relegated to coastal work and night fighting. Is that accurate? If so, would it not have historically met the incoming German planes in their attacks on the heartland of England? What type of scenarios in the game would the Beaufighter best be suited for?

    FYI, the Bf 110 has its revenge later in the war. Despite remaining less than optimum in the maneuverability department, the Bf 110 had one thing going for it -- it could handle a staggering amount of weaponry, and toward the war's end it was a top-notch night fighter armed in the front with both 2 × 20 mm MG 151 cannons and 4 × 7.92 mm (.312 in) MG 17 machine guns. British Lancaster bomber pilots reported seeing other planes in their formation suddenly explode for no apparent reason, and they attributed it to extremely accurate anti-aircraft fire -- not realizing that the other bomber had been attacked from beneath by the concentrated firepower of an undetected BF 110. Now we just need a good WGS custom card to represent that ...

    Thanks for the help!

    -- Eris

  2. #2

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    We don't use the Beaufighter for BoB scenarios, because it did not play that main role in this battle.

    You always can outmaneuver a Beaufighter (or a Bf.110) with altitude rules and a single seat fighter, but it will cost you a lot of skill, Eris. It's easier if your Beaufighter opponent uses standart tactics (for example straight on and always an Immelman to return), but if he starts to fly nonorthodox...

    If you're in a larger fight with multiple planes, the Beaufighter is a real heavy weight, crossing the "battlefield" and shoot at any plane that comes in range. The only way to win is, to concentrate firepower of a few planes bring him down very quick.

    I had similar ideas to cut the Immelman capacity of the Beaufighter a little bit, maybe two fast straights before an Immelman, etc...

    From a historical view, the Beaufighter has no traditional fighter role. I can't remeber spectacular fights with Messerschmitts and Focke Wulfs. It's reputation lies in the Pacific Theater (my opinion) where the Beaufighter did a lot of damage to Japanese ground forces and ships.

    Don't know about his night fight abilities, either. Doesn't mean it has none because the (German language) literature about the British side of the night fights in WW II is verey rare here.

    Beaufighter's armament, Japanese's not-self-sealing-fuel-tanks, a loaded Lancaster's hitpoints in a night fight...

    That are the WGS themes were the opinions will differ very much.
    Voilą le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marechallannes View Post
    Don't know about his night fight abilities, either. Doesn't mean it has none because the (German language) literature about the British side of the night fights in WW II is verey rare here.
    Its ability as a nightfighter was considerable, it was the first production aircraft to mount an airborne interception radar and it was the mount of most of the early British nightfighter aces.

  4. #4

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    I just looked for the wartime footage on Beaufighters attacking the Japanese , but can't locate it now. If you want to see why they called it the Whispering Death, ask Gully Raker to show you the footage. It sure surprised me.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  5. #5

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    Beaus joined in in early 1941, thus they came a bit late for BoB party. They helped during Blitz though, shooting down German bombers, and it was one of the reasons Germans pulled back and stopped bombing Britain. Beaufighters were already equipped with radars during spring/summer 1941 (if i am not mistaken ), and so they were able to take down attacking German night riders easily. And that is what we use Beaufighters for - mainly in He111 scenarios. It works well despite Beaus being very powerful.

    I saw this Aussie documentary on Beaus (produced in Australia). It was incredible, when they couldn't outmaneuver Zeros (they couldn't), they just stepped on it and left, leaving Zeros behind. Haha.
    Last edited by Honza; 04-17-2014 at 14:52.

  6. #6

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    Beaus are powerfull aircraft but I see no reason not to use them in a game, it not as though Beaus cannot be shot down, as others have stated it just takes a bit of planning, but at the same time they are still great models to fly!

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eris Lobo View Post
    is the Beaufighter too powerful in WGS game play?
    All cannon-armed acft. in _WG2_ are overpowered, because cannons are themselves overpowered -- if you want to accurately depict cannon in the game, consider any shots taken at a fighter-sized target to be one range increment further away.

  8. #8

  9. #9

    Exclamation

    Yes the chaps are correct the Beau was not a "dogfighter". It excelled as a Nightfighter & as a ground/sea Attack aircraft.
    Unfortunately I cannot download a clip as its on a 1 hour plus DVD however you should find out-takes on U Tube if you search for Beaufighters in action. The DVD is called Whispering Death-- 30 & 31 Squadrons in Action.

    We only fly our Beaus in Pacific War scenarios & do not dogfight with them. They did use their speed to escape Zero's but there are a number of recorded victories over Zero's when they were forced into combat.

  10. #10

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    Sad to hear the news about Wing Commander Boyd.
    R.I.P.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  11. #11

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    I only use the Beaufighter as a ground attack plane in my pacific battles and if it has to fight single seater fighters it only uses long range shots for both short and long range. This is to show the agility of the smaller fighter. It can use it's normal shots against larger planes but it usually has an objective to complete and doesn't have time to dogfight other planes.
    IMHO
    Thomas

  12. #12

    Exclamation A correction!

    Sorry folks! The correct name of the DVD is "Beaufighter Squadron WW2"
    I was thinking of the Book called Whispering Death!

  13. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CappyTom View Post
    I only use the Beaufighter as a ground attack plane in my pacific battles and if it has to fight single seater fighters it only uses long range shots for both short and long range. This is to show the agility of the smaller fighter. It can use it's normal shots against larger planes but it usually has an objective to complete and doesn't have time to dogfight other planes.
    IMHO
    Thomas
    A good solution, Tom.

    ...using the close range damage only for ground attacks.

    If have to test this.
    Voilą le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marechallannes View Post
    A good solution, Tom.

    ...using the close range damage only for ground attacks.

    If have to test this.
    Its just a house rule. I'm sure others do it differently. Hope it helps.

    Thomas

  15. #15

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    Sure I've said this elsewhere I saw a documentary where they were asking a pilot of a Beaufighter what it was like to fly etc. Apart from it seeming to stall when they fired everything he said the hardest thing to remember was which psoition the fire selector switch was in ie safe, mg only, canon only, all guns. So I would say the Beaufighter should have limited canon ammo and be able to fire mg's only, canon only or both. An admin nightmare but realistic.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  16. #16

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    First of all, I would like to thank everybody for responding with so much great info, both regarding the historical uses of the Beaufighter, and also the house rules some of you use regarding playing with it in the game!

    Secondly, I'd like to add to all that with an interesting fact I read on a site run by the U.S. Air Force National Museum: "Equipped with a very early Mk IV airborne intercept radar, the powerful and heavily armed night fighter version entered service just as the Luftwaffe (German air force) began its "Blitz" night attacks against London in September 1940. Beaufighter crews accounted for over half of the Luftwaffe bombers shot down during the Blitz."

    So the Beaufighter was indeed quite effective against incoming bombers ... which makes sense knowing the situation at hand. Although that site seemed to be saying that the Beaufighter kills were mainly during night missions, I might fudge a bit and use my Beaufighters during the daylight hours when Heinkel 111's are sighted coming across the channel ...

    That is ... unless anybody knows of any good night-mission house rules for Wings of War we could use ...

    See you in the skies!!!

    -- Eris

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eris Lobo View Post
    So the Beaufighter was indeed quite effective against incoming bombers ... which makes sense knowing the situation at hand. Although that site seemed to be saying that the Beaufighter kills were mainly during night missions, I might fudge a bit and use my Beaufighters during the daylight hours when Heinkel 111's are sighted coming across the channel ...

    That is ... unless anybody knows of any good night-mission house rules for Wings of War we could use ...
    Funny you should say that....

    Nightfighting Rules:


    Play starts after all aircraft have been detected by each other, and is assumed to be in good visual conditions, with no AI radar necessary.

    Scenarios include Nightfighters vs Intruders, or Nightfighters vs Intruders and Bombers.

    Special rules for Nightfighting
    - any aircraft that go out of 3 ruler lengths from the nearest enemy aircraft or Searchlight of either side may be removed from play at the owner's option, unless on fire.
    - any aircraft that is within 1 ruler length of an AA battery of either side at the end of a turn takes a D damage marker.
    - Play starts with all aircraft within 3 ruler lengths of a searchlight (SL).
    - Placement of AA batteries and all but 1 SL per enemy aircraft is done before play commences. The other SLs are placed within 3 ruler lengths of where the enemy aircraft enter the table. AA batteries must be placed at least 3 ruler lengths from the centre of table edges.

    Typical scenario for a 6 x 4 ft table: 1 Bomber, 1 Intruder, vs 2 defending fighters, 5 SLs and 3 AA batteries. Aircraft enter within 1 ruler length from the centre of opposing table edges. Bomber must enter on a short table edge. Bomber must exit the opposing table edge to complete its mission.

    Other scenario suggestions:
    2 Intruders "beating up" AA batteries and SLs vs 2 nightfghters;
    2 bombers, one incoming towards the target, one returning, plus one Intruder vs 2 nightfighters.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skafloc View Post
    Sure I've said this elsewhere I saw a documentary where they were asking a pilot of a Beaufighter what it was like to fly etc. Apart from it seeming to stall when they fired everything he said the hardest thing to remember was which psoition the fire selector switch was in ie safe, mg only, canon only, all guns. So I would say the Beaufighter should have limited canon ammo and be able to fire mg's only, canon only or both. An admin nightmare but realistic.
    From what I remember reading, the early production Beau's had 60 round drum magazines on the cannon, to be reloaded by the observer/navigator. Interesting job in a dogfight no doubt! The later ones were belt fed.

    Dave

  19. #19

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Rat of Vengence View Post
    From what I remember reading, the early production Beau's had 60 round drum magazines on the cannon, to be reloaded by the observer/navigator. Interesting job in a dogfight no doubt! The later ones were belt fed.

    Dave
    Great to see you are still flying Dave!
    What have you been up to?
    Secret Ops, Underground work, ferrying spies????



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