Questions on New Observer Models

**ReducedAirFact** · 03-15-2014 23:03

Hi all, I need your opinion on some design options, if you have a minute.

Background: As detailed in another thread, Shapeways has stopped printing my "1/144 Observers with Parabellum" model because it was designed under their old rules, and their new rules require much wider "wires" (arms and gun barrels). On the good side, this is a chance to refresh and improve the design, albeit with thicker gun barrels. And I'll make it available both in FUD (for ultimate detail) and in WSF (for more robust handling).

Question 1: Would you be interested in a variety of observer poses in a single sprue-attached product, or just one pose per product (with several products available)? For instance, a set of five poses might be: 30° downward, 15° downward, 0°, 15° upward, 30° upward. What I've noticed is that it really changes the position of the observer....for downward shots, he basically has to stand up; for upward shots, he can really hunch down in the fuselage and hide.

Question 2: Would you like the Scarff ring included (or Central Powers equivalent -- anyone know what it's officially called)? I figure you could always snip it off the airplane model already had one, if you're pretty dextrous.

Here is a sample pose of a 1/144 German observer with the Parabellum aimed at a 30° downward angle. (The fuselage here is just for scale.) The gun barrel is the current Shapeways minimum: 1mm diameter. The detail is overkill for a figure only ½" tall (12mm), but printing technology is only going to get better over time.

Click image for larger version.

Name: GermanObs-30_144.jpg
Views: 239
Size: 32.4 KB
ID: 126253

**johnbiggles** · 03-16-2014 00:06

Hi Daryl,
1) thank you for your hard work producing these extras which go to making our hobby that bit more special
2) I obviously got lucky as I received a set of the old observers a few weeks ago
3) for me, yes I would like to have a few downward firing observers in a set, it helps to differentiate same type aircraft on the table as I don't always add serial numbers
4) again, for me, I would rather not have the gun ring
5)that amount of detail looks great, going to have to be FUD though I would have thought....and a new magnifying glass

**Womble** · 03-16-2014 00:13

That looks great Daryl, I like the idea of different poses. I think the new design looks much tougher than the old gunners which is better for the games table. I have some of the existing design in FUD but find them too brittle to mount on a magnet for a rotating gunner. Would printing your new design in stainless steel be an option with the new Shapeways rules?

Regarding the gun ring, could you do an option with, without and an option with a mix?

Ian

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 03-16-2014 02:40

I'm up for the different poses too Daryl.
I would like to see Scarf rings on some of the models, but am not too fussed, as it is easy enough to add a wire ring.
Rob.

**Teaticket** · 03-17-2014 17:29

Looks great Daryl. I vote for multiple poses per sprue. I'm mixed on the ring but as it should easily be snipped off then I'd go for that.

As soon as you get these up I'll update the list.

Peter

**Naharaht** · 03-17-2014 20:26

Multiple poses per sprue would be good but it will mean much more work for you. Also for the Allies, single and twin Lewis guns.

**ReducedAirFact** · 03-17-2014 22:11

I'll do the Entente (with Lewis & Twin-Lewis) later, but here's what I have for the Central Powers observer with Parabellum. I decided to make them available with or without the rings, so you can buy either one depending on the model you're intending to use it on. Now it's just a question of the submit-(reject-resubmit)-print cycle with Shapeways to get a test print.

Maybe some day they'll reduce the "wire size" requirement and the gun barrel will look less like that of a MG08 (Spandau). :-)

On metals: Steel requires a much larger size on everything. Bronze requirements are pretty close to WSF, but I think this print would cost about $45 rather than about $6 (WSF).

Click image for larger version.

Name: German-montage-144.jpg
Views: 216
Size: 64.1 KB
ID: 126517

**Sulring** · 03-18-2014 04:23

These look great Daryl!
I would be interested in a set for each side (entente and alliance) containing multiple poses.
As for the scarf rings, I don't mind them: it's easier to remove something that is there than to add something that isn't...
Same goes for the barrel sizes, you can always thin them up by filing them down gently.

Eric

**Doug** · 03-18-2014 04:36

Those look great mate. I would be up for them

**Flying Helmut** · 03-18-2014 04:44

Originally Posted by Sulring

These look great Daryl!
I would be interested in a set for each side (entente and alliance) containing multiple poses.
As for the scarf rings, I don't mind them: it's easier to remove something that is there than to add something that isn't...
Same goes for the barrel sizes, you can always thin them up by filing them down gently.

Eric

DITTO!!!
many thanks for designing these!

**RJG173** · 03-18-2014 08:10

I like all of these and will patiently wait until they are available on Shapeways.

How about an observer pointing a camera straight down at the ground?

**grumpybear** · 03-18-2014 15:00

Very nice I will be looking at getting some for all my 2 seaters

**Teaticket** · 03-18-2014 18:43

Will definitely get some when available.

**ReducedAirFact** · 03-18-2014 20:40

Originally Posted by RJG173

I like all of these and will patiently wait until they are available on Shapeways.
How about an observer pointing a camera straight down at the ground?

That would be interesting! But I've seen so much variety in cameras and camera mounts, I'm not sure where to begin!

**Biggles downunder** · 03-18-2014 22:03

Include me in!

**Boney10** · 03-18-2014 23:24

A bit late I know but,i vote for multi pose set.
With and without the ring if possible
Nice models there Daryl

**flash** · 03-19-2014 02:28

Daryl, those poses look tremendous & would certainly bring the models to life. A mixed bag with a ring option has got to be the way to go if it can be done.
The only thing putting me off slightly is that the gun in the pics looks more like a MG.08 LMG than a Parabellum MG14 but at this scale I don't think that will stop me getting some !

**ReducedAirFact** · 03-19-2014 09:36

Originally Posted by flash

Daryl, those poses look tremendous & would certainly bring the models to life. A mixed bag with a ring option has got to be the way to go if it can be done.
The only thing putting me off slightly is that the gun in the pics looks more like a MG.08 LMG than a Parabellum MG14 but at this scale I don't think that will stop me getting some !

Yeah, I'd rather it looked like the picture below, but alas it can't be printed that fine. Maybe some day?

Click image for larger version.

Name: Parabellum.jpg
Views: 183
Size: 13.7 KB
ID: 126833

**flash** · 03-19-2014 12:51

Thought that might be the case - must be frustrating for you designers but it'll get there one day !

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 04-07-2014 00:09

Very neat designs Daryl.
When I need to replenish my Observers they will certainly be my choice.
Rob.

**Lt. S.Kafloc** · 04-07-2014 01:20

A must for detailed two seaters, love the idea of mixed angles and the addition of single and double lewis options.

**Teaticket** · 04-07-2014 07:39

Fantastic, just saw they are available so I'll put in an order today.

**RJG173** · 04-11-2014 08:05

I should have been paying more attention to this thread. I ordered a set, too, plus a number of German floatplanes to put them in.

**Teaticket** · 04-18-2014 05:03

Just got the new Parabellums, superb! Unfortunately I also bought the Lewis gunners in detailed plastic. They are too brittle and break when getting them off the sprue. They are so small I doubt I can put them back together.

**Dom S** · 04-18-2014 05:50

How are you removing them? I'd strongly recommend trying sprue cutters instead of a knife if you haven't already. (Types Dom, hoping it works, as while I normally use Peter Pig aircrew, a source of twin Lewises would be good....)

**Teaticket** · 04-18-2014 06:14

Originally Posted by Dom S

How are you removing them? I'd strongly recommend trying sprue cutters instead of a knife if you haven't already. (Types Dom, hoping it works, as while I normally use Peter Pig aircrew, a source of twin Lewises would be good....)

I use fine cutters. The arms are extended with the Lewis and that is the weak point. Just handling them after cutting them they easily break. Its not that I am an all thumbs kinda guy. I'm pretty good with small pieces so I am sure its not me. I think even if I get one into a plane successfully, it will easily break during a game. I wish they were not the detailed plastic, the normal wsf material is quite strong, as with the Parabellum guys.
Too bad as I was also liking the double Lewis.

**Dom S** · 04-18-2014 07:44

Ho hum. I guess I'm sticking to mutilating the Peter Pig ones then....

**ReducedAirFact** · 04-18-2014 18:24

That's why the new-model observers (with Parabellum) are available in either FUD or WSF. The FUD versions have better detail, but the WSF versions are much more robust. For the gaming table, I'd go WSF; for a static display, I'd have to think about it.

Some day I'll tackle the Lewis equivalents, and you'll be able to get those in WSF also.

**TALLY HO** · 04-19-2014 02:44

I bought some of the lewis armed a while ago and found that yes if you use clippers to remove from sprue you get less breakages but even if the guns do break then cut off the rest of the gun and use them as pilots

**Teaticket** · 04-19-2014 07:47

Yes, mine also got promoted to the front seat and pilots they will become!

**ReducedAirFact** · 06-17-2014 12:57

Just a quick followup, because I know some folks were looking for this: I've marked available new, multi-pose models with Lewis guns, with variants for single-mount and twin-mount, with and without Scarff rings, in both WSF (robust and cheap) and FUD (smooth and detailed). Personally I like the ones with Scarff Rings because they include the elevation bar, which is important for those upward-angle poses. There are links on the Shapeways Releases forum.