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Thread: Dauntless SBD-5: Pick your pilots for the up coming minis

  1. #1

    Default Dauntless SBD-5: Pick your pilots for the up coming minis

    Now that we know we are getting a Dauntless SBD-5 in the next Series release, which pilots or units would you like to appear on the minis?

    There is only one rule, you must post a picture of the pilot's plane or a plane from that unit.

    Let the fun begin!

  2. #2

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    This is a good representation of a early-mid war US Navy bird (1942). Flew off of the USS Yorktown at Midway.
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    This is one of the more famous SBD drivers ( Lt. Stanley W. “Swede” Vejtasa), but it would be strictly limited to use up to Midway. Some SBDs retained the red & white stripes on the tail (as well as the red center to the large white star on the fuselage) until Midway, whereas others did not.
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  3. #3

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    Oberst, you might ask them to correct their naming, since they like to start with manufacturer: "Douglas SBD/A-24 Dauntless". If there ever WAS an aircraft manufacturer called "Dauntless", they're newer and either lightplanes or kitplanes.

    It's a minor nuisance thing, but it's annoying in the same way as the admittedly unintentional dissing of Ham McWhorter by not spelling his name right.

    +1 to Swede Vejtasa, but also this guy, the other "SBD Fighter Jock":


    Too bad I can't find a pic of Dixon's bird at Midway... though the sole surviving Midway Dauntless in Pensacola would be good too.

  4. #4

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    +1 to Cook Cleland

    Operation Torch, VS-41 on CV-4, 1942
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    Last edited by Dan-Sam; 01-16-2014 at 11:24.

  5. #5

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    Captain Matt Garth

    VS-5 USS Enterprise

    July 1942
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Dauntless Enterprise.jpg   Cpt. Garth.jpg  
    Last edited by Marechallannes; 01-16-2014 at 12:11.
    Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  6. #6

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    Desc. provided w/ pic.

    >;)

  7. #7

    Smile

    The Swede , Cook & Larson would make a good spread from early war to later war Dauntless!

    Unfortunately Sven, Capt Matt Garth was only a fictional character & should therefore be ineligible.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by fast.git View Post
    This is a good representation of a early-mid war US Navy bird (1942). Flew off of the USS Yorktown at Midway.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is one of the more famous SBD drivers ( Lt. Stanley W. “Swede” Vejtasa), but it would be strictly limited to use up to Midway. Some SBDs retained the red & white stripes on the tail (as well as the red center to the large white star on the fuselage) until Midway, whereas others did not.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Fast.git you have it right. I concur with your assessment.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1NTUzj7cGw

  9. #9

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    The model is of the SBD-5 not SBD-3. Unfortunately that excludes Midway, Coral Sea etc.

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    I think this one is a "must have".

    Pilot - Sqn. Ldr. T. J. MacLean de Lange F. Off. Sewell. March 1944. Left side view showing the placement of the nose-art. The origins of the artwork are unknown, but it appears to be a winged stomach carrying a wide assortment of alcohol.
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  10. #10

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    Yeah, making it a late war SBD excludes Best and McClusky, Best put bombs into two of the Midway Japanese Carriers, including Hiryu. McClusky was made famous for finding the Japanese Fleet but still needs to be one of the three!

  11. #11

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    I concur with Wade McCluskey or Richard Best from Midway... (I tried to type the nickname for Richard but got censored)


    Last edited by bsmith13; 01-16-2014 at 20:59.

  12. #12

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    IIRC, the differences between the -3 and -5 are so minor Ares would consider 'em interchangeable--Andrea wasn't even sure Corporate would care about the correct F-vs-G cheek and tail guns on the B-17s, and those are much bigger differences.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by gully_raker View Post
    ...

    Unfortunately Sven, Capt Matt Garth was only a fictional character & should therefore be ineligible.
    Damn, Charlton Heston is one of my heroes.

    To see him in a WoG SBD Dauntless would be like birthday, promotion, lottery win & Christmas together.
    Last edited by Marechallannes; 01-16-2014 at 23:28.
    Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    IIRC, the differences between the -3 and -5 are so minor Ares would consider 'em interchangeable--Andrea wasn't even sure Corporate would care about the correct F-vs-G cheek and tail guns on the B-17s, and those are much bigger differences.
    Sweet deal, bring on McClusky and Best! At least one of the two has to be in the series. Leaving out one of these two is as unforgivable as passing over Foss and O'Hare in the Wildcats! Though, I am sure the appearance of the plane has as much to do with the decision making as the pilot does.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marechallannes View Post
    Damn, Charlton Heston is one of my heroes.

    To see him in a WoG SBD Dauntless would be like birthday, promotion, lottery win & Christmas together.
    Sounds like a near-mandatory repaint...

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by P-51D View Post
    Sweet deal, bring on McClusky and Best! At least one of the two has to be in the series. Leaving out one of these two is as unforgivable as passing over Foss and O'Hare in the Wildcats! Though, I am sure the appearance of the plane has as much to do with the decision making as the pilot does.
    Some (am I being generous?) of the pilot choices have caused a little consternation... that's for certain. But Nexus/Ares has done well at other times, to be fair: I thought the Galland and Molders '109s were must-haves, as was Paddle's Gladiator and Bader's Hurricane.

    To be honest, although I'd love to be able to provide input into the decision, I'd hate to try to please all of the potential customers should the responsibility to choose be mine...

  17. #17

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    Daniel, I agree with you on the F4Fs. I know that it is good to represent a broad range of theaters with the aircraft schemes that they use, but I sorely missed Foss, O'Hare, Flately, Thach, etc. Maybe later...

    For me, the good news is the Speedy D! I somehow missed that they were upcoming.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by bsmith13 View Post
    Daniel, I agree with you on the F4Fs. I know that it is good to represent a broad range of theaters with the aircraft schemes that they use, but I sorely missed Foss, O'Hare, Flately, Thach, etc. Maybe later...
    Ultimately, I agree as well. Each series should include at least one name casual customers have a chance of recognizing. Foss, O'Hare (been to Chicago, anyone?) and Thach would have certainly fit the bill for the F4F. By this rationale, when we get P-47Ds, if none of three are Gabreski, Johnson, or Zemke... well, that would be a head-scratcher, wouldn't it?

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoe Brain View Post
    The model is of the SBD-5 not SBD-3. Unfortunately that excludes Midway, Coral Sea etc.
    But we already have the -3 as cards from FftS and as DB said, I don't think there is enough visual differences at this scale to see Ares making another mini for it. We could see the same mini used as a -3 in a reprint later on though. In fact, we have evidence in other minis that they are willing to do different versions of teh same plane during a single release. So it's quite possible we will get both a -3 and a -5 in this set.

  20. #20

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    Unless they want people screaming for Ares' decision makers heads, they had better get this SBD release right. This is the plane that people have been clamoring for since series II. If you have the ability to put a bug in their ear Keith, either Best or McClusky must be one of the three pilots selected. It would behoove them to do a SDB-3 and SBD-5 this go around and not make us wait 3-5 years for a reprint. Sometimes, its the little things that really can earn a customer's loyalty. With a plane like the SBD that has been on the top of this forum's polls and want lists for so long it makes sense to go all the way and please the customer as best as possible. Of course there are people out there that would want someone else besides Best and McClusky, but for the Battle of Midway and for the vast majority of players, those are the pilots to represent. Of course I could be wrong about this, but we are early enough in this process to help Ares make the correct decision here.

    I can only imagine the outcry if we were to get an Amercian, French, and Kiwi plane. I would argue two of the planes had better be American and McClusky or Best had better be behind the yoke of one of them or there are gonna be some torqued off players that feel like this is a slap in the face after having waited so long and patiently, if not loudly advocating their desire to add official SBDs to their games.

    Of course you can't please everyone and gamers are a feisty opinionated bunch to begin with, but I think the answer to this riddle is pretty obvious.

  21. #21

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    Unless they want people screaming for Ares' decision makers heads, they had better get this SBD release right.
    You may be right, but I suspect that most of the people in the WGF/S community who really worry about things like this are those who post here, and that the vast majority couldn't give two hoots as to who the pilots were except in a few odd cases. Better to get a range of useful colour schemes.

  22. #22

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    I agree with what you are saying, as I normally don't care too much myself and love a nice variety of colorful planes. But this one of those small cases where I think it does matter. There are not a lot of variety in paint schemes for the SBD when comparing them to the fighters, so in this case, I think the pilots matter a little more.
    Last edited by P-51D; 01-17-2014 at 09:37.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by P-51D View Post
    There are not a lot of variety in paint schemes for the SBD when comparing them to the fighters...
    1. USN in any of the various blue/blue Pacific (easily 'remarked' to RNZAF for those who feel the need) or blue/grey Atlantic schemes.
    2. French AF Olive Drab A24 with 'Invasion stripes'.
    3. Either a 'plain' USAAF A24 in Olive Drab for Pacific and North Africa, or
    an early blue/grey USN SBD (I know the model is supposed to be a -5, but there's already been a discussion about historical accuracy) with meatballs and rudder stripes.
    Last edited by Baldrick62; 01-17-2014 at 13:52.

  24. #24

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    True enough; an A-24 would be welcome indeed.
    Karl'
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marechallannes View Post
    Damn, Charlton Heston is one of my heroes.
    To see him in a WoG SBD Dauntless would be like birthday, promotion, lottery win & Christmas together.
    Quote Originally Posted by fast.git View Post
    Sounds like a near-mandatory repaint...
    right next to Captain Wild Bill Kelso's P-40
    Karl
    (Yes, Tommy Z, I know you have one )
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by bsmith13 View Post
    Daniel, I agree with you on the F4Fs. I know that it is good to represent a broad range of theaters with the aircraft schemes that they use, but I sorely missed Foss, O'Hare, Flately, Thach, etc. Maybe later...

    For me, the good news is the Speedy D! I somehow missed that they were upcoming.
    Brad, I understand you and it is OK. For me all Pacific SBDs look same and I just tried to find something different and useable (and better US from Operation Torch than French one for me). And...the yellow circle looks damn good on SBD! Hope you will get exactly what you want.

    PS: I am Norwegian Gladiator fan
    PPS: My oppinion is that two of schemes should be famous or iconic and the third could be another (desert Spit, Italian Stuka, British Wildcat etc.). Just my 2˘.

  27. #27

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    Well as much I have been pushing for an NZ Dauntless I know the reality is that we will not see one. So my second choise would be for them to be all American and painted up for the various Pacific battles Midway ect. If ARES had the hide to produce a French one, I would be very annoyed

  28. #28

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    Although an extra step, initial research into the matter leads me to the conclusion that a USN to NZ conversion should be relatively easy.

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    So my second choise would be for them to be all American and painted up for the various Pacific battles Midway ect.
    So, a blue SBD and a blue SBD and another blue SBD: truly inspiring!

  30. #30

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    Easily repainted and easily repainted, oh and again easily repainted. Isn't that what we do? However there is always shapeways and AIM and probably others where we can purchase unpainted and paint them up in whatever schemes we like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baldrick62 View Post
    So, a blue SBD and a blue SBD and another blue SBD: truly inspiring!
    See you on the Dark Side......

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skafloc View Post
    Easily repainted and easily repainted, oh and again easily repainted. Isn't that what we do? However there is always shapeways and AIM and probably others where we can purchase unpainted and paint them up in whatever schemes we like.
    Fair point. I have two of the AIM SBDs... they're very nice.

  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baldrick62 View Post
    So, a blue SBD and a blue SBD and another blue SBD: truly inspiring!
    That's why one needs to be a army A-24
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  33. #33

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    I perosnally like the color scheme of the proposed French SBD. However, if I am being honest, I just see it as clearance bin fodder within a year or two and would rather it not be produced. I point to the French P-40 and Belgian and Soviet Hurricanes as my support. They have a place and some people are interested, but how many people are going to be whooping for joy, when a French SBD is released? I would wager not many. I think most people will be shocked to find out the French even flew the SBD during the war.

    I know Blue, Medium Blue, and Light Blue sounds boring and in reality is, but that same closely related theme is what was released for the Vals. They simply are what they are and divebombers weren't as individualized as the fighters. Granted, the Vals didn't sell for crap either. In retrospect, I bet you they would have sold extremely well, IF they had been paired with a suitable opponent, ie the SBD.

  34. #34

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    I know that a variety of colors is aesthetically pleasing, but as alluded to above, I am more excited about historical paint schemes that tie the mini to a specific (and hopefully significant) historical event. If Navy planes were different shades of blue during WWII, so be it.

  35. #35

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    Ares don't have to push themselves to 3 blue SBDs or one blue and two obscure ultra rare variants. Let them release just one blue one . Less stress, same result.

  36. #36

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    Well, the two MUST HAVEs I'd say are one in M-485 Blue Gray over Neutral Gray (Midway)

    This one was actually restored by a friend of mine and is the last known Midway survivor!

    And late-war Marianas Turkey Shoot three-tone


    The third, maybe the RNZAF or an Army A-24 from the Southwest Pacific (Australia/New Guinea and covering the fallback from Indonesia)


    Apologies for the huge pics, best I could do for a quick effort.

  37. #37

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    Great Dauntless pictures, Diamondback.

    This would be a balanced choice for series 6.

    Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  38. #38

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    For the record, those three aircraft are located at, top to bottom:
    National Museum of Naval Aviation, Pensacola, FL
    Pacific Air Museum, Ford Island, HI (Pearl Harbor)
    National Museum of the USAF, Dayton, OH

  39. #39

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    I saw the last one in Dayton, after Origins this year.
    Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  40. #40

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    For the topic itself - I think we should have one early war american pointing scheme, on midway painting scheme and finaly one NZ. No use to bring them on European Theatre at all. If someone REALLY wants to have one, it's always a possibility to repaint.

  41. #41

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    Doug and me voted for a NZ Dauntless in a former poll.

    Now we're three forumers with this wish.

    I would prefer a NZ version instead of a French one - If we get a non US Dauntless.

    I'm happy with three US versions.
    Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  42. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt View Post
    For the topic itself - I think we should have one early war american pointing scheme, on midway painting scheme and finaly one NZ. No use to bring them on European Theatre at all. If someone REALLY wants to have one, it's always a possibility to repaint.
    That makes sense to me.

  43. #43

  44. #44

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    For the record, other than markings Midway IS the Early War camo. 1943 to end of SBD ops was the three-tone Dark Sea Blue over Intermediate Blue over Gloss White, and Late War (late 1944 to end) was solid Dark Sea Blue all-over.

    Specific shades were...

    Early:
    Blue Gray M485 (an old prewar color, no Army-Navy Aviation color code assigned) -- no modern FS
    Have to look up the gray again...

    Mid
    Depending on precisely where on the aircraft it was applied, Dark Sea Blue was ANA 623 (Gloss), 606 (Semi-Gloss) or 607 (Non-Specular aka flat). Today FS15042 (G)/25042 (SG)/35042 (F) are similar.
    Intermediate Blue was ANA 608, similar to today's FS35164.
    Insignia White came in three flavors: ANA 511 (now FS17875) Gloss, 601 (now 37875) Non-Specular and 626 (27875 is subtly different) Semi-Gloss.

    Late: As per Dark Sea Blues of Mid.

  45. #45

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Well, the two MUST HAVEs I'd say are one in M-485 Blue Gray over Neutral Gray (Midway)

    This one was actually restored by a friend of mine and is the last known Midway survivor!

    And late-war Marianas Turkey Shoot three-tone


    The third, maybe the RNZAF or an Army A-24 from the Southwest Pacific (Australia/New Guinea and covering the fallback from Indonesia)


    Apologies for the huge pics, best I could do for a quick effort.
    Yep those two would be my pick!

  46. #46

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    Additionally, the early light gray was a shade akin to ANA 602.

    http://www.jpsmodell.de/dc/usn_e.htm#1940

  47. #47

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    The SBD-5 should fit into a "normal" fighter box.
    Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  48. #48

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    Yeah, these were NOT big aircraft--in fact, sufficiently compact that it wasn't deemed necessary to include a wing fold, and really all it takes to remove the outer section is undoing a handful of bolts if you really have a PRESSING need for space.

    Otherwise, they were small and light enough that they were just hoisted into ceiling racks when they needed to be gotten out of the way...

  49. #49

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    I'm just waiting for the chance to augment my FAA Squadrons.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  50. #50

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    Also, I don't remember the ANA codes, but the closest modern FS 595c catalog matches for USAAF are 34086, 34087 or 34088 (depending on who you believe) for the olive drab, and 36270 for the Neutral Gray lower surfaces.

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