If the broken record saga as to WGS Series 6 being released is to continue ... I'll wind up the grammar phone ready!
Disappointing news - especially after recent re-release of Official Gaming Mats. Come on Ares Games please ...
Last edited by Tonx; 10-02-2015 at 08:43. Reason: Add gaming mats comment.
Andy I appreciate your suggestion but I would prefer to concentrate on WW2 / WGS and championing the game at Galactic Models. I'm also aware of how long it took me to stop confusing WGS flying with real world flying - it took me months before I stopped looking for checklists whilst my WGS aircraft were in the air or seeking nearest airfield whenever they were damaged! So I'm apprehensive of trying to play both and confusing the rules all the time
I think a further delay to WGS Series 6 calls for another uniquely entertaining project - though I'll still wind up the grammar phone I'm going to quit thinking disappointing news right now ... To think up another potential project which could turn out the way the Avro Vulcan Into The Skies Of WGS turned out. A trophy aircraft which is innovative but mythical in relation to the ethos of WGS XH560 may be: But beyond October 11th we the Aerodrome will still have a fully functional Vulcan: Real world flying is about to lose it's last remaining example.
My emails with Roberto this week says he still thinks we can get them for Christmas. They should be cleaning up the production photos for the releases this week and next. I think we should hear something official soon.
This has made me pause on the way to winding up the grammar phone ... I hope that this turns out to be what happens
Ares maybe could have been a little more positive about this on their website by putting a TBA notice on WGS Series 6 or similar. very much for the brighter news Sir.
I think my only concern will be if and when the BoB re-releases come about that Ares produces enough to fulfill every ones desires. As it would seem that apart from forum members the general punters will not see hide nor hair of them once We get our orders ion and hopefully filled.
See you on the Dark Side......
I've got an idea - When more is known about the BoB re-releases maybe Keith could order a sizeable number of each product for AA. Then as they are ordered make sure that we all get at least one each: Nobody goes ordering squadrons and hogging the lot. Kind of like controlled distribution due to popular demand. Then ... After a set time period the products can be opened up to those who want or can afford to order multiples so long as still in stock /available. With this thought in mind I for one will order the BoB re-releases through AA and having suggested this I'll be ordering one of everything.
Corgi have had to put controlled distribution into practice twice to my knowledge as has Gemini Jets with THOSE Vietnam Airlines Airbus A350 models (1:400 Scale) for us diecast model collectors. Corgi ran into problems with too many pre-orders being placed and that's another reason I'm going to support AA and not elsewhere - it's all very well advertising stuff available as pre-orders and taking people's money but as said what happens if demand outstrips supply? You then have the post-sell out fallout on E-Bay but we will be back to stupid prices / bidding wars again and this is what my suggestion is an attempt to avoid happening ... It could happen to any one of us after all.
Last edited by Tonx; 10-02-2015 at 18:45. Reason: Rephrase - Paragraph 1.
I do not know about the Aerodrome Accessories finances but maybe Keith cannot afford to order a sizeable number of BoB sets. Also there has to be enough production for the models to reach local shops all over the world soon after their release.
Thank you David - being aware in particular of that recent Gemini Jets situation this is just a suggestion to try and see if we can maybe avoid the same. You see the maddening thing for me is that the TAS Shop at Manchester Airport got four A350 models whereas the Aviation Emporium at East Midlands Airport got none: The one I bought at an already inflated price was the last of those four which went to the TAS Shop and I had to travel for it. I agree that the final say-so on this matter lies with Keith regarding AA and what is going to be available there. But also part of this suggestion may just encourage people to stop and think of others before ordering whole squadrons of these for themselves ...
I hope I'm not coming across to you as impolite in any way. Not my intention. It's just that I'm aware of how angry and frustrated I felt with Gemini Jets for letting the greedy (fill in the blank) at TAS order four and my local dealer none and trying to avoid or avert this. It's not a bit of a starry-eyed suggestion either coming from somebody who holds Public Demonstration Days of WGS monthly at my local FLGS and will therefore have to face the public when it comes to availability / popularity of these products.
Last edited by Tonx; 10-02-2015 at 19:03. Reason: Rephrase - Paragraph 2.
Ares will not keep a BoB set in production as they haven't with anything else, stock will evaporate at some point and silly prices will be achieved on eBay. It's just a question of when.
In terms of countering the "don't buy squadrons guys" issue (which WILL happen regardless of any attempts at controls or urging restraint) this is where a Kickstarter would be of benefit as the number of sets/models that the big buyers wanted would be managed through the preordering arrangement and production set at a level that satisfied that demand and allowed enough models to cover general retail.
The trouble with that is that general retail won't need much covering.... Stocking Wings Of Glory takes a big lump out of any stockist's cashflow, and with the big "on release" purchasers gone, even more stockists will simply decide "nope".... Stockists are already thin on the ground in Europe, as that "on release" custom has largely switched to ordering from the US, given that US stockists get the product sooner and cheaper than European ones. (And crucially get price and release date information so they can advertise pre-orders, while European stockists get no release date, and only get the price confirmed when stock arrives at the distributor....)
A KS release model would go a long way to finishing off the European stockists, as well as putting a dent in the number of US B&M stores that carry it. For online buyers this probably won't be much of a problem, but it will definitely reduce the game's exposure to new players, which could be a real concern in the longer term....
Last edited by Dom S; 10-03-2015 at 02:35.
I'm sure that Keith will run a pre-order facility as he has done in the past. Enabling individuals to order as many as they require for repaints.
See you on the Dark Side......
This is why I've been offering pre-paid pre-orders on new releases. It helps me to know how many to order initially and ensures I have the required funds to place that order. Selling these right about 30% retail means there is very little profit margin for me to sink into a new release in a big way.
The Ares minis have never sold out at or even near release day. It's only after more then a year that they sell out. The D.VII was is huge demand for a very long time and they are still in stock. I don't foresee the BoB planes selling out any faster. While the die hard players will buy more of them, fewer people over all play the game. That will keep stock levels around for a normal cycle.
It is possible that you will see them go out of stock in a few stores right after release, as happens even in my AA store. That is just because we did not order enough the first time around and there is a lag in getting the new stock to us.
So, my suggestion would be the exact opposite: Pre-order all the ones you if possible. That way you don't miss out and don't have to wait for a resupply at your favorite store. There will be enough for others to get there ones and twos over the course of the next year. Beyond that point, it's anyone's guess as to where stock levels will be.
You are correct about them running out of stock at some point. Ares has a pretty large line of minis for their three "Glory" games. Keeping everything in stock all the time is not possible. Even if they could, I know I should could not and I doubt many retail stores could.
Yeah, a KS release on regular Series would not be good for retail stores or the game in the long run. I take huge sales hits on any item they release as a KS. I only support and push their KS campaigns as a fan of the game and because I'm in a unique position to recoup some of my lost sales via selling them items to include in the KS. My LFGS has all but stopped carrying Ares products because of the direct KS to customer sales. And without the games in the game store, bringing new players into the game is going to get very hard.
I honestly think the Sails of Glory KS might have severely hurt that game. In nearly three years I've only sold 21 starter sets. I really think that by offering Waves 1 and 2 directly to the players at a large discount killed the LFGS support for that game
How much is that really the case though? Barring the Rules & Accessories Pack (which they seem to have sorted out), we've not had major availability issues from Ares. What we're mainly bemoaning is the lack of stuff that Ares have never actually produced at all.... Yes they need to get a starter set available again, but the offering they had wasn't exactly ideal - what's really needed for the WW2 game is stuff that Ares have never made at all - when you get right down to it, B of B and Midway.
The WWI game is a similar story - stuff is only fairly recently becoming unavailable, and so far it's pretty much only the early war models. Availability issues will doubtless arise, but actually the essentials have generally stayed available. (Although a Dr.I drought may be on the horizon.) They need to up their game in getting beginner-friendly packages out there, but overall availability has actually been pretty good.
Last edited by Dom S; 10-03-2015 at 14:53.
I wonder if offering mini's as model kits could save them production costs.
What if they took some of the Wings of War molds and simply sold them as unassembled/unpainted kits.
Or new releases also offered as kits in addition to completed versions.
Could such an approach make it easier to release new series?
I really wouldn't know, but I'm just thinking out of the box, because I love customs and modeling.
I'm getting ready to decal/convert 2 martlets to FM-2 VC 10 (Gambier Bay CVE 73)
Unpainted/unassembled kits would be a welcomed option.
I agree, Ares has done a pretty good job of keeping their minis in stock. The Dr.Is could be an issue, but I think they are working hard to prevent that. The Dual packs are designed to ensure that the different planes in Series 1 get sold in a more equal amount and the Rookie Pack which they offered during the last KS and made available to stores (though not really advertised outside the KS) do the same thing. The Rookie Pack is very good at this since they are packed with the minis they have the most stock of (MvR is he exception as it comes in every Pack), ensuring the least popular minis are cleared out as well.
Ares has expressed to me their desire to find the right balance of KS and retail sales. As a player and fan, I can think of a lot of good KS ideas. But as a store, I don't think any of them are good for building the footprint of the game.
Ares makes assembled and painted gaming pieces, not model kits. While a vocal group in this community, the mass majority of the Wings players would not be interested in "kits". And the true model builders out there would scorn kits as simplistic and out of scale as these would be. So in the end, Ares would end up missing out on both of those markets.
I have to agree with this. My skills are limited (read: non-existent) and challenged by the simplest of repaints. I like that WGF/WGS kites are ready-to-play right out of the box. Having them further diversify and produce another line of items would, I feel, not be in my best interest. I am already mildly concerned that such a small company is spreading itself too thinly... but I -- admittedly -- may have no idea what I'm talking about. Won't be the first time, that's for certain...
With the exception of really wishing Ares had released a D.VII with lozenge (pink stripes don't count) because... well... it's a D.VII and I don't have enough of those, I'm pleased with the selection and availability of models in the Ares lineup. Now if they can get on their horses and produce the next WGF (especially the Albatros C.III, Bébé, and 1-1/2 Strutter) and WGS series, all will be right in the world.
Or, at least, the WoG world.
I can appreciate your positions regarding minis not models...
Truly, one of the perks of Wings of Glory in both WWI and WWII is the open and play concept (although I usually have to disassemble the WWI and re set the wings due to symmetry/compulsive issues .
My thinking outside of the box approach was inspired by the dungeons and dragons, federation commander, and other similar games in which the mini's are presented in unpainted/unassembled pewter (vast offerings).
I have to agree with you in hind sight; we seem to be a niche group, where (in comparison) not many Dungeon and Dragons folks care about WWII or aviation for that matter.
Again, I have to compliment Ares thus far in their support of both WWI and II.
My only suggestion would be to lay off of any further production of single engine IJN aircraft (multi engine would be a plus) and concentrate on those already suggested B of B and Pacific (or US Atlantic).
However, as it stands I'm ready to bloat my minis box with 109Ks and Dauntless until I have to file for bankruptcy as a result of my WOG habit.
Oh, and if I may...
From a non Sails of Glory player standpoint, the SOG game seems far too dependent on the playing mats, which in my opinion, were far to scarce to procure.
I was able to secure 2 Sails of Glory mats for use with WOG Pacific action, but I paid well over retail to get them.
Beautiful looking ships though...
If Ares wants to see frenzy... see what happens if the Sails of Glory offering included WWII ships... I'm getting light headed just thinking about the implication of that...
They would probably snatch some of the Axis and Allies crowd who would in turn bleed into the WWII WOG group. Production Production Production...
All of which is one man's (who loves this game WWI and WWII) opinion.
Although I doubt Ares will move in this direction (bare metal/plastic), Keith has mentioned discussions with the powers-that-be concerning the possibility that WGS minis be released as generic (though still squadron-specific) aircraft. This might help scratch that modeling itch for many.
For what it's worth, I think you'll be far from alone in this...
Am hoping that Ares stay away from kit-building option and continue with their ready-to-run option. With regard to both WW1 and WW2.
It is indeed the Gaming Piece v Scale Model debate again which has also appeared in a few other threads. Ares specialise in the production of Gaming Pieces excellent and aesthetically attractive that they are.
Remind me not to try typing aesthetically on my phone again for a very long time!
IMHO and politely if I wanted to build kits I have got a few 172 scale Airfix ones left at home in the man cave. I would build those but I came into Glory from 10 years of building kits
As a painter and builder of model aircraft, I can still see the reason for the desire of other players that the missing aircraft be produced.
If I could have just picked them all off the shelf, I would probably never have started building my own.
However, Ares are now producing new types on an almost yearly basis, as well as keeping up with re supply as far as they can.
I know from my chats with people in other areas of manufacturing, that they are all finding it difficult to get regular supplies of many commodities from the Far East on schedule, especially if they are small businesses.
So on both fronts Ares are doing as well as a lot of other firms.
We should be glad that they are still there putting out the product, and be patient about getting what happens to be our favourite aircraft. We could well have been saddled with just a dozen or so basic models, and no resupply at all, if Ares had not picked up the reins when Nexus went under. Who would we have had to moan at then?
Rob.
Last edited by Flying Officer Kyte; 10-04-2015 at 11:42.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
I'd never heard of this game in 2011!
I'm happy with things the way they are; playable-out-of-the-box minis, a new batch being made available every six months or so.
Affordable, and not overwhelming.
Why Ares doesn't run a P500 I'll never know. Assesses demand, figures out what is in demand in the community. Base priorities accordingly. Even if it doesn't tell you how much to order for retail stores it helps you measure the relative level of demand from one model to the next. A survey or two wouldn't hurt either.
Good stuff...
AGREED!!! Huge plus with Ares taking over the reigns from Nexus... and a thank you Ares...
Until then... I will remain in the pattern until series 6 gets clearance from the tower...
That, and prepare for the Divine Wind threatening the Pacific 1944 (Ensign's Challenge on CAP patrol)...
General Quarters...!!! General Quarters...!!! General Quarters...!!!
On the "minis v. models" question: Why not do what the "gunpla" (Gundam plastic models) community does -- have the kits disassembled, but painted, with a decal set on the side? ~3-5 minutes assembly time, one time; attach the decals; add details as desired. (See also the Furuta "egg" models -- painted and decaled; one need only attach wings to fuselages.)
Experiences relating to similar F-Toys and Café Reo 1.144 scale models. Mostly of twin and four engine bombers. Discovered the smaller they get the more hit and miss the assembly result is regarding quality of build.
Don't forget we are talking 1.200 scale for WGS which is even smaller. Drawback of pre-painted offerings is bad build: No filler can be used unless you intend extensive or full repaint once assembled. Defeats the object IMHO.
For both games I still prefer what Ares and Nexus before them have on offer. Ready To Run
Yes, I too agree with Rob. We should be grateful to Ares for saving the game.
On the subject of SoG mats, it is not dependent on the mats. There are very acceptable (and cheaper) alternatives. The dark blue leatherex table covering material is good and you can get away with using a blue tablecloth.
Same in Australia Dom and you have an extra 3 or more months of waiting for the mins to arrive
Considering what Ares have released for WGS they do not release new stuff frequently. But when they do blimey does it have a lasting impact on the game.
I am talking Heavy Bombers and twin engine aircraft for example. Next instalment Series 6 features the first dive bomber since the Stukas and Vals of Wings of War. Not just single engine aircraft types all the time.
NO KITS!!! (in BIG red writing!)
I agree with no kits.
I realize that Ares is a small company, and I realize that they offshore their production and do it in lots. But I think they'd do well to find a way to keep the most common, most well known, most "popular" airplanes in stock as best they can at all times. I'd also recommend (if this isn't too pricey) to make minor changes to the appearance, a different number on the tail, an arrow on the wing, etc., to give bigger collectors such as us the ability to have six or eight of the same model airplane on the table at the same time without complete duplicates. This would allow new players to get their Spitfires and their Bf.109s and their Zeros while giving us veterans a chance to build squadrons that don't all look exactly the same.
It would also be an advantage to the Retailer, as people like us would stop in to see if the number had changed on a particular airplane. I wouldn't even issue a separate SKU for the minor differences if it was me, let people find them the old fashioned way.
All that said, I think Ares would benefit from a P500 plan, for retailers and individuals to participate in the same way GMT and MMP do. Let the market drive the production cycle.
I advised a brand new retailer to hold off on WGS products until a better starter kit was available, keying on Battles of Britain and Midway. As it stands right now he can't purchase a decent set of products to get new players interested in the game. I live in a Navy town, he could do very well with WGS if he could get the right planes.
P500 is a preorder system by GMT games. Check it out here:
GMT Games Project 500
Sorry about that, P500 in a nutshell means a Pre-order system. You sign up to purchase a product, include your credit card number, and when the product is ready they bill your card and send it to you. Most have a discount since you're ordering in advance, and bulk purchasers (i.e., wholesalers and retailers) get a bigger discount.
The idea is that products that attract interest get produced, those that don't sit until they do or are delisted. The advantage for the publisher is that they can get a good feel for the marketability of a product before committing to producing it.
Why do I have have the feeling that the dog hunts his tail again with those anual marketing discussions?
Let's hope for a sign about the new WGS Series 6 soon, so that we can go back on topic again.
Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!
I am hoping we hear something more positive about WGS Series 6 at Spiel Essen too. Could do with good news about it by November 29th because of the Galactic Models event I am organising.
May I politely disagree that NO KITS!!! is off topic regarding future Wings of Glory releases for both games. Particularly WGS where Ares recently suggested future releases of generic aircraft with decal options supplied with them.
Until they start peeling off if left untreated with decalfix or get damaged and scratched IMHO. Then you have to go through all the rigmarole of looking for after-market replacements which may not be easy to find.
Prefer to leave decal options to scale models which are on display. Rather than using them on gaming pieces where they face getting damaged during gameplay where are likely to be handled much more than display models ...
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