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Thread: Series 6 revealed!

  1. #951

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    Matt has it right.

    It seems that if you log in just as Herr Oberst has placed a listing, you will see it there (? on 'test') and when you look again it has gone (while he works on the next one).

    I'm certain Keith will post an announcement on here when the full selection is up and ready to roll - he always does!
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  2. #952

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    Looking forward to preorder here too.
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    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  3. #953

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    Sorry guys, going to be a couple more days... but it'll be worth the wait for the bonus that is going to come with them.

  4. #954

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    Let Keith do his thing when he can. No need to get in a tizzy. Pre-ordering won't get the planes to us any sooner.

  5. #955

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    I brought my bench, my popcorn and my painting tools and a Albie D.III I'm working on. I can wait.

  6. #956

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    My next WoG budget will be available mid of March so I'm not in a hurry.

    Voilŕ le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  7. #957

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    Okay, Roberto got me the needed info for these, so they are now up on the site. But I suggest you have a look at this thread first.

  8. #958

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    PRE ORDERED!!!!! *AND THE CROWD GOES WILD!!!!!!!!* *WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

  9. #959

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    But why did the 109K get CCD at close range? Shouldn't it be more BD (2x13mm and 1x 30mm)? Or is this a version I don't know of that completely replaced the 13mms with the 20mm gondolas in the wings?

  10. #960

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    Pre-ordered!

    As a special bonus for pre-ordering your new minis through the AA Store, I am offering a free set of ACE WGS Speed Tokens with each new mini you pre-order, up to a maximum of 4 per person! You will have to add the Speed Tokens to you shopping cart and apply the discount code FastFlyer during the checkout process. This will give you the correct discount amount for your order.

    It did not work, Keith. I'm sending you a PM about this.

  11. #961

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    I did not do that either....

  12. #962

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    about visual appearance of the minis.
    Karl especially is rather something like a K Buchon. Wingtips are incorrect. Vertical fin - Emil version. A bubble canopy? How come?
    P-47: ehhhh...
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    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  13. #963

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    Pre-order in. Great deal Keith, thanks!

  14. #964

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    Pre-orders are up in the Aerodrome store...

    I am still shaking from it... Ooh My...

  15. #965

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    I preordered but did not get in on the discount code. Maybe I should have not been so impatient to place the order... Any chance of fixing this?
    Last edited by Tokhuah; 02-29-2016 at 08:33.

  16. #966

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    I Did the exact same thing, I saw blood and bit before I knew it.

    I was not able to see a way to enter the code though post purchase; but, I have to admit, I so pumped about the pre-order that I am still OK with it...

  17. #967

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    Order placed.
    Everything seems to be working fine now Keith.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  18. #968

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Ninja View Post
    But why did the 109K get CCD at close range? Shouldn't it be more BD (2x13mm and 1x 30mm)? Or is this a version I don't know of that completely replaced the 13mms with the 20mm gondolas in the wings?
    My reading was that the K-4s had 15mm guns, and that might have gotten up to the C (my interpretation also). Another grey divider that if you really want to get deep, you need to look at RoF and shell weight and inherent accuracy of the weapons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    about visual appearance of the minis.
    Karl especially is rather something like a K Buchon. Wingtips are incorrect. Vertical fin - Emil version. A bubble canopy? How come?
    P-47: ehhhh...
    The 109-Ks look like YaKs
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  19. #969

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    Karl especially is rather something like a K Buchon. Wingtips are incorrect. Vertical fin - Emil version. A bubble canopy? How come?
    Andy have you ever seen the Messerschmitt Bf.109 advanced variants fitted with the Galland Canopy. Called a Galland Hood elsewhere this design eliminated practically all of the blockages posed by the traditional design of Bf.109 canopy giving the pilot uninterrupted views sideways. The glass was toughened too so I believe. This may be where your perception of a bubble canopy has come from

  20. #970

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    My reading was that the K-4s had 15mm guns, and that might have gotten up to the C (my interpretation also). Another grey divider that if you really want to get deep, you need to look at RoF and shell weight and inherent accuracy of the weapons.



    The 109-Ks look like YaKs
    Karl
    I could see that but the only sources I could find were 2x 13mm MG 131s and either a MK 108 or a MG 151/20 in the engine. With the MG 131 having a slightly higher firing rate than the Browning M2 but also suffering from slightly less velocity. They did have "high explosive" shells but how high explosive can a 13mm (.51 cal) round be?

  21. #971

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Ninja View Post
    But why did the 109K get CCD at close range? Shouldn't it be more BD (2x13mm and 1x 30mm)? Or is this a version I don't know of that completely replaced the 13mms with the 20mm gondolas in the wings?
    K-6 had 3x 30mm MK 103 (1 each in engine block, and underwing gondola each side), plus 2x MG 151 (cowling). The -K was developed directly from later G-units (G-10 and onward). Most -Ks had only the engine-block 30mm and the dual 15mms.

  22. #972

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Order placed.
    Everything seems to be working fine now Keith.
    Rob.
    My order placed as well, but I encountered the problem of multiple $5 discounts beyond the limit of 4 sets.
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  23. #973

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    It's good to see vibrancy return to the auspices of WGS even though we have two different Judy aircraft coming out and some glaring historical inaccuracies dogging the Messerschmitt Bf.109K. However it is worth bearing in mind on this and the Pre-Order at AA Thread that there is the Scale Model versus Gaming Piece debate to consider plus the fact that these are production prototype photos as opposed to being representations of the real thing.

    If one wants an example of a production prototype photo which didn't do the actual game justice at all who remembers the initial photos of the Burges Gloster Sea Gladiator with no cockpit? If I find one of these I will post it for those who have never seen this before! There are many aspects of these photos which make all of these Series 6 aircraft look a little rough around the edges ... But all I will say having said that and mentioned the Burges Gladiator is that the of the same aircraft is beautiful in comparison - and it does have a cockpit unlike this early stock photo showed.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I am expecting a few refinements to adorn Series 6 when they are released in May but at the same time I am also viewing them as gaming pieces. However glaring historical inaccuracies as one can tell - I do frown upon those no matter what the purpose of the aircraft is unless it's one for children to play with.

    Production prototypes often feature rough edges and crudities which are not present on the final result: The canopies on the Republic P-47D Thunderbolts serve as prime time examples of what I mean here. Otherwise I do hope the Messerschmitt Bf.109K loses the non-circular antenna which the aircraft in the photo sports ...
    Last edited by Tonx; 02-29-2016 at 18:17. Reason: Attach Photo.

  24. #974

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    With the official release info out now, I'm in the process of updating the BGG database to include the new flyers.

  25. #975

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    K-6 had 3x 30mm MK 103 (1 each in engine block, and underwing gondola each side), plus 2x MG 151 (cowling). The -K was developed directly from later G-units (G-10 and onward). Most -Ks had only the engine-block 30mm and the dual 15mms.
    I could see how a 15mm cannon in game being interpreted as a C chit but what I am getting at is that all the sources I have found have said 13mm MG 131 cannons in the top cowling. Where are people finding sources saying 15mm?

  26. #976

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Ninja View Post
    I could see how a 15mm cannon in game being interpreted as a C chit but what I am getting at is that all the sources I have found have said 13mm MG 131 cannons in the top cowling. Where are people finding sources saying 15mm?
    I initially got it from the FW game; usually a good source, as JD does a ton of research. I also found it on web sites, though I didn't note them all. I'll check warplane of the 3rd reich tomorrow, and see what they say.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  27. #977

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Ninja View Post
    I could see how a 15mm cannon in game being interpreted as a C chit but what I am getting at is that all the sources I have found have said 13mm MG 131 cannons in the top cowling. Where are people finding sources saying 15mm?
    _Warplanes of the Luftwaffe_, and _Illustrated Encyclopedia of Military Aircraft_; those are the only ones I have in arm's reach at the moment. They all say the -Ks never carried 13mm MGs, only 15mms.

  28. #978

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    One question: Does anyone know the difference between the V and the W Decks of the upcoming Judy?

  29. #979

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    Interesting concept thrown in with the new models:

    "The P-47 Thunderbolt piloted by Mohrle was nicknamed “Touch of Texas” and was decorated with a rattlesnake head, complete with glistening fangs and glaring yellow eyes. In Wings of Glory, his airplane comes with a skill card “Lucky pilot,” which allows the pilot to choose to ignore a single damage counter during the game, after drawing and seeing it."

    "In Wings of Glory, this airplane comes with the "Sniper" skill card. When this ace fires at an enemy airplane, he tends to hit a bull’s-eye."

    "The No.135 had the motto “Pennas ubique monstramus” (We show our wings everywhere). Its insignia was a peacock and the squadron code WK. Its P-47 "Razorback" version featured in Wings of Glory, includes the skill card “Good at Escaping,” which requires the use of the Tailing optional rule; this pilot’s airplane may not be tailed, unless the tailing airplane’s pilot is also an ace with this skill." Don't know if I like this one...

    http://www.aresgames.eu/16746
    Last edited by Canestri10; 05-16-2016 at 16:04.

  30. #980

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    An interesting concept but functionally useless in game play unless Ares comes out with similar cards/mechanics for all other previous planes. This is not a ccg where players are expected to power up their "deck" with the latest trick mechanics, making older sets obsolete. I think this could be a great direction but it will require a broader set of skill cards for fighter and bomber personnel. If anyone thinks I am off base with this analysis let me know.

  31. #981

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    Ace abilities should all be listed in the RAP, so they've already been out there--all this card does is give a "Suggested" ability for that plane. You don't HAVE to use it... think of it as just an option.

    This may piss some of you guys off, but for Household Name Famous pilots, I'd really like to see "Premium Pack" offerings more like the SGN Special Packs that add a booklet with a little history about the pilot and plane in the box and a better, finer-detailed paint job... something Value Added that would justify a slightly higher price-point and help with cash flows. Maybe have Premiums be like one batch of four per year.
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  32. #982

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    I know about the parallel Ace Pilot abilities in the RAP, this just feels like something above and beyond the more generic ones in the rule book. Don't get me wrong, I am not against the concept, in fact I would gladly pay for a famous pilot pack covering previous releases if Ares produces one.

  33. #983

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    I suppose Ares may produce packs of WW2 Ace career cards like they have for the WW1 version of the game but they would have to redefine their Ace Level scheme because of the higher number of kills by some aces.

  34. #984

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    Unless they just say that victories against the Quantity-over-Quality VVS only count as like 1/4 each except Aces/HSU's/similar.

    That or change it to an exponential curve so that the first few levels are 5 per, then the next few 10 per, then 25 per...
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  35. #985

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    Or introduce "skill rot" -- if an Ace scores a kill against a Rookie, the Ace *loses* points (he's not actually learning anything).

  36. #986

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    Or introduce "skill rot" -- if an Ace scores a kill against a Rookie, the Ace *loses* points (he's not actually learning anything).
    Skill rot doesn't really exist.
    The German aces that scored dozens of kills on unprepared pilots with lousy planes became better and better with time.

    But I would like to have some "messy" skills, like:

    Hyena: This pilot always puts himself in a position that even if he's the closest target, he will not be fired upon unless he's the only target available.

    Predator: This pilot always targets the most damaged enemy plane. He cannot shoot against another enemy plane except as targets of opportunity.

    A pilot that accumulates certain types of kills could be awarded with skills like these ones.

  37. #987

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackronin View Post
    Skill rot doesn't really exist.
    Rubbish and other comments. Skill Rot happens constantly, in any endeavor where skills are needed to be successful. Ever wondered how Great Boxing Champions get beaten? They get old, they get slow, they get sloppy, they get beaten.

    And the pilots who fattened their kill-counts on inferior opponents *didn't* get better -- they just didn't have any effective challengers. Had they faced equals rather than pop-up targets....

  38. #988

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackronin View Post
    Skill rot doesn't really exist.
    Absolutely correct.

    "Ever wondered how Great Boxing Champions get beaten? They get old, they get slow, they get sloppy, they get beaten."

    That's age, sod all to do with skill. If it did have to do with skill, then those who fight a top ranking challenger every year would never get old - what utter and complete Hogwash.
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  39. #989

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    Rubbish and other comments. Skill Rot happens constantly, in any endeavor where skills are needed to be successful. Ever wondered how Great Boxing Champions get beaten? They get old, they get slow, they get sloppy, they get beaten.

    And the pilots who fattened their kill-counts on inferior opponents *didn't* get better -- they just didn't have any effective challengers. Had they faced equals rather than pop-up targets....
    Adding to Tim's comment:
    Skill Rot is a roleplaying game trick to reduce exponential experience points. It has nothing to do with real life.
    Skills lose effectiveness due to aging (some more than others) and if someone stops using them. Using them against inferior opponents adds number of opponents defeated doesn't rot the skill.

    Real life, Chris?! Please?

  40. #990

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    I think we need to look at it from a middle ground.

    In the span of 4 years, there isn't enough aging of a person to actively rust on skills.
    But shooting down a novice pilot who has less than 70 hours flying is just target practice, nothing more, nothing less.

    To maybe make a point of some sort. At the local gun range that I work at, two fellows whom have been shooting skeet their whole life come out once a week to shoot. One guy uses a standard 12 gauge shotgun and typically nails 20-23 out of 24 shots. The other guy uses a 28 gauge and hits 19-21 out of 24 shots. For those who know nothing of shotguns, a 28 gauge gun shoots a smaller shell with smaller and fewer shot pellets making it far more difficult to hit targets than a 12 gauge. So for the guy who always uses a 12 gauge, he hasn't had a perfect round since '96 (24 out of 24). The guy who uses the more difficult gauges (I'm sure I will see him out there one day with a .410) doesn't talk about his last perfect round (so no clue if he has ever even had one) but uses the gauges he uses to "keep things competitive".

    Moral of the story? Well maybe skill rot doesn't have as large of an affect as we think but keeping the status quo won't help you out either?

  41. #991

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    Lucas, it really doesn't work like that.

    Let's divide skills into strength/agility (physical) skills and cognitive/mental (mind) ones.

    For both groups:

    1. If you train and keep doing it you will keep them honed. If you stop, you loose physical and mental sharpness.
    2. Getting old weakens your body and mind. Usually first your body, then your mind.
    3. Once you learn a new "trick" you get better at that skill. Tougher opponents will give you more learning, lesser opponents will still give you learning lessons.

    For physical skills:
    4. Your muscle coordination needs the practice. So practicing with lesser opponents is still better than practicing alone.
    5. Fear breeds attentive minds. An opponent will always keep you on edge. You don't know if they are lesser opponents up until they're going down in flames.

    For mind skills:
    6. There is a natural system of learning that takes effect after the action. It is called remembering and reenacting. When you remember and reenact something that happened you judge it and you refocus your learning. Of course this happens more frequently when the action was for real and was important to you. You do it less in training and more in real life. That's why we tend to reenact serious discussion we had with people we love or with dangerous situations. We're reenacting and deciding what we'll do next time so it works better.

    So, to summarize.
    I love RPG's. I play them a lot and I think that in some ways they are a pretty accurate simulation of life.
    They have rules - mostly converted into stats so that we can play them with other people.
    But some of these rules are bull**** (good for the game but less than true in real life). Skill Rot is bull****.

  42. #992

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    Are these still on track for a June release? Are they stateside yet? I don't see a release date yet on Ares' upcoming tab, so leads me to believe we are still 3-4 weeks out at least. But what do I know about these things?

  43. #993

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    I really hope they are scheduled for a June 1st release! I've got a huge order sitting with Keith waiting only for those bad boys to be released. Not that any delays are Keith's fault....

  44. #994

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    Quote Originally Posted by P-51D View Post
    Are these still on track for a June release? Are they stateside yet? I don't see a release date yet on Ares' upcoming tab, so leads me to believe we are still 3-4 weeks out at least. But what do I know about these things?
    I will take the silence from any official "in-the-know" source to mean we are still at least a few weeks (or dare I say months?) out on these. I believe I read somewhere they were already "on-the-boat", so I would interpret that to mean sometime this Summer up here in the Northern hemisphere we should see these bad boys! You know I cannot wait! The first new fighters series in 18 plus months and counting cannot get here soon enough!

  45. #995

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    Quote Originally Posted by P-51D View Post
    I will take the silence from any official "in-the-know" source to mean we are still at least a few weeks (or dare I say months?) out on these.
    I have learned to take the release dates provided by Ares with a grain of salt. Look at the WGF Kickstarter - October 2015 became March 2016, and I still haven't seen the 'app'.

    They will come when they come, no use worrying about that we cannot control.

  46. #996

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Brisgamer View Post
    I have learned to take the release dates provided by Ares with a grain of salt. Look at the WGF Kickstarter - October 2015 became March 2016, and I still haven't seen the 'app'.

    They will come when they come, no use worrying about that we cannot control.
    Good points but maybe Keith could give us an update? Even if it is a dissapointing one...

  47. #997

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    True. I am not overly worried about anything other than making sure I have the funds in place to purchase them at the time of release. Plus, it's a double whammy for me and anyone else who collects both lines, as series 9 of WGF is right on this release's heels. Plus let's not forget the two new mats as well! It's gonna be an expensive Summer for Wings, and I couldn't be happier about it!

  48. #998

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    Last word I had was the ship should make landfall on or about the 31st of May. Give them a couple of weeks to clear customs and ship to the warehouse. It's looking like late June from where I'm sitting.

  49. #999

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    Thanks Keith, really looking forward to them!!

  50. #1000

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    So, according to Ares' Facebook post these birds will be landing June 17th! Hell yeah, that's only 2ish weeks away! I am beyond stoked!

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