Photo Recon Missions

[Gaz67]

We played a campaign photo recon mission last night and as I read the recon rules I thought that is looked a bit easy to complete a mission, so...

As per standard recon rules you must play a stall move in range of your target to take a photo, 1/2 range for pilot only, full range for observer, and place a counter of some sort on the target. Observer can only shoot stuff or take a nice picture but not both. Aircraft must make it off the board to have a chance of completing the mission.
This is where things change a little, for each target you have a difficulty number (I chose 5 which may be a bit high in retrospect) and for each counter on the target draw an "A" damage card. For the target to be successfully photographed you have to get more damage points than the difficulty number. This encourages multiple passes at the same target, and you don't know if you've succeeded in your mission until you get back to base and the photos are developed.

I think for next time (as they only got 1 out of 4 targets photographed they will be going back ) that I'll make it 1 "A + 1" card per counter.

As always, thoughts and possible changes are welcomed....

[Oberst Hajj]

I like it, as I always thought recon missions were too easy. You might add in some type of modifier for low or high levels of altitude.

[Bruce]

I just read this thread.
It seems to be a good variation on the official rule. I will propose it to our group.

Last gaming season we played that a successful photo would be taken if the "Stall" manoeuvre ended within 1/2 range stick of the center of the photo target, and a Bomb drop would only be successful if the "Straight" ended within 1/4 range stick of the center of the bombing target.

[Charlie3]

We have been using rules fairly close to the original ones. However your idea just gave me one too. Why not treat the photo taking like a bomb drop and use the bombing rules?

The bomb (or photo) card needs to land on the target, and you can draw damage cards just like for bomb damage, (only half the amount if the bomb card does not cover the red targeting dot) You can still assign a low successful photo number to the target, and force the observation plane to really work at it!

In our games each successful photo returned home gives a later bombing run +1 on it's damage draws. This gives the crew a real reason to do well, and the escorts a reason to care if the observation plane makes it home. It also gives us an excuse to play another sorte!!

[swarbs]

Charlie, I really like the idea of having a successful photo recon help out on a later bombing mission. Makes a lot of sense and linking scenarios always adds a bit more meaningfulness.

[Bruce]

I agree Seth; the "linked sorties" idea adds some consequences without having to create a more elaborate campaign. Our gaming group always plays at least 2 WoW scenarios each gaming session. In the 2010-2011 season we intend to play one every-man-for-himself dogfight scenario with the winner (last aircraft alive on the board) scoring the most points towards our annual "Pirate of the Year" trophy. We began awarding this annual trophy 5 years ago when we were playing the similar-but-different "Pirates" table-top constructable/collectable card/miniatures game and have decided to keep the name even though we have switched to WoW.

However, each of us find the every-man-for-himself dogfight scenario too "shallow" for more than one game a session, so we make the second game a proper scenario. Charlie's idea of linking a Photo Recon sortie to a Bombing sortie gives me some rational/scope to link sorties from one week to the next without having to create a more elaborate campaign. We play only 8 full-group sessions a gaming season and this idea gives me 4 scenarios ( 2 linked German 2-seater scenarios and 2 Allied. The other 4 will be 2 balloon busting missions (one for each side) involving AA MG, AA Gun and top-cover aircraft defenders, and 2 train interdiction missions (one for each side). I got the train idea from a thread on this site last Spring. I'm also lobbying for a couple of extra full-group gaming sessions so that we can also play 2 attack-the-enemy-aerodrome scenarios (1 for each side).

Good discussion and good ideas. Thanks.

[Oberst Hajj]

Check out the files section for some really cool new train game aides too!

[Charlie3]

Ok I did some thinking at work today and came up with the following rules to submit to our League (Traverse City Wings of War League) Based on the house rules that we use these rules for Photo Recon Missions should work well.

1. Ground Targets will be assigned a "Successful Photo" rating of 3. This is the total amount of points that must be equalled or exceeded by drawing damage cards when taking pictures of a target.

2. Using the rules for Bombing Runs from the Wings of War rules system, planes must successfully drop a Photo Recon card (bomb card) onto a target to take a photo.

3. A Photo Recon card that covers the red targeting dot on a ground target card will cause the full amount of the damage card drawn to be applied to the photo attempt.

4. A Photo Recon card that touches a ground target but does not cover the red targeting dot on a ground target card will only allow half the amount of the damage card drawn to be applied to the photo attempt.

5. A good photo is taken every time the Successful Photo rating is equaled or exceeded on a single photo run. Points are not accumulative. All other photos are considered blurred or otherwise ruined.

6. Each successful photo of a target that is returned to home base will remove 1 point of damage that a target can withstand on a follow up bombing mission.

7. Pilots of single seaters or observers in two seaters may not fire a weapon on the maneuver phase that they "Take" a picture (drop a bomb)

Our group has run several games where we do the recon first and access bonuses to the bombing crews on follow up missions. We like the fact that the Recon mission has some meaning to it.

We also occasionallly place multiple ground targets on the table upside down. This represents the idea that attacking crews have a map co-ordinate but don't know the exact location of the target. The attacking aircraft know which target they are supposed to attack, and must find it. We allow enemy aircraft to flip or reveal a target if they fly within 1 range stick of it. This keeps things from being so cut and dried every time.

I am looking forward to trying these recon rules out, they should add to the feel of the game nicely.

[Bruce]

[B]1. Ground Targets will be assigned a "Successful Photo" rating of 3. This is the total amount of points that must be equalled or exceeded by drawing damage cards when taking pictures of a target.

Hi Charlie 3. I think that I will like what I think you have said, but I need clarification please . In the quote above you say "... cards ....". I am confused by the plural? How/when could a single photo-taking aircraft draw more than one "A" damage card in a single photo-taking run? Because, if I understand the rest of your post correctly, photo (damage) points are not cumulative; so if the points are not cumulative and the photo taking aircraft only draws one "A" card if it's bombing card covers the red dot on the target card, how would there be "cards", and how could there be a "total amount" which implies more than one amount/quantity/card?

[Charlie3]

[B]1. Ground Targets will be assigned a "Successful Photo" rating of 3. This is the total amount of points that must be equalled or exceeded by drawing damage cards when taking pictures of a target.

Hi Charlie 3. I think that I will like what I think you have said, but I need clarification please . In the quote above you say "... cards ....". I am confused by the plural? How/when could a single photo-taking aircraft draw more than one "A" damage card in a single photo-taking run? Because, if I understand the rest of your post correctly, photo (damage) points are not cumulative; so if the points are not cumulative and the photo taking aircraft only draws one "A" card if it's bombing card covers the red dot on the target card, how would there be "cards", and how could there be a "total amount" which implies more than one amount/quantity/card?

Sorry it was a typo

[Bruce]

Thanks Charlie. It now adds-up.
I`m going to float it by my group.

[Charlie3]

Thanks Charlie. It now adds-up.
I`m going to float it by my group.

let us know if it works out for you...We may be trying it out next tuesday.

[HardRock]

What about BDA? A follow up recon photo middion for Bomb Damage Assesment. Now you got a third sortie.

Henry

[Charlie3]

What about BDA? A follow up recon photo middion for Bomb Damage Assesment. Now you got a third sortie.

Henry

Absolutly necessary!!

[Charlie3]

Well I was all set to do the photo recon mission discribed above, however group dynamics being what is is , the League players were in Dog Fight mode last night. We squeezed in 5 furballs in our alloted time. I died 3 times, (shot full of holes), survived 1 time (only 3 pts of damage) and survived the last one with only 3 points of damage left! All in all a good night!

If any one tries out these Recon rules PLEASE post a report and any changes or additions. I will not be playing for awhile as my schedual at work has changed...I will be working when everyone else is playing... and I would like to hear how they work out! Any way Chaps...Carry On!

[LGKR]

Well we tried Charlie3's Photo Recon rules and they worked to a degree. It is hard to take more than 2 photos per recon plane before needing to high tail it home or risk being shot down and losing the intel. It was little confusing to some players about the success or failure of picture taking and how thit applied to the follow up mission.

So we reworked the rules a bit to make it easier to understand even for the novice player. Below are the revamped rules which we play tested. They worked well and everyone understood what was happening.

Photo Recon Mission Rules

1. Ground Targets will be assigned a damage amount.
• Soft targets 10 (ground troops, houses, unarmored vehicles etc.)
• Medium targets 20 (fortified positions, large buildings etc.)
• Hardened targets 30 (armored positions, large bridges, big factories etc.)
This is the total amount that must be equaled to or exceeded by drawing damage cards when bombing or strafing to destroy the target.

2. The attacking side randomly chooses a target from a minimum of 3 provided targets. The chosen target is kept secret from the defending side.

3. The defending side places the targets face down on the table at least range stick apart from each other without showing the attacking side which targets are which.

4. During the game the attacking planes must identify the targets by flying within a range stick of them. Once identified, the photo recon plane(s) can then attempt to take photos.

5. Photo recon missions can only remove up to 50% of the damage required to destroy a target.

6. Using the rules for Bombing Runs from the Wings of War rules system, planes must successfully drop a Photo Recon card (bomb card) onto a target to take a photo.

7. A Photo Recon card that overlaps the target card at any point is considered a successful photo. A damage card is drawn from the appropriate damage deck.

8. A ‘0’ means that the photo, although successfully taken, was of no practical use.

9. All other damage amounts mean that the photo provided helpful Intel. The damage amount is recorded.

10. When the Photo Recon Card covers the center dot on the ground target the full amount of damage removal is applied. A Photo Recon card that touches a ground target but does not cover the red targeting dot on a ground target card will only remove half the amount of the damage card drawn.

11. The total amount that is successfully returned to home base is then removed from the target’s damage amount needed to destroy it on the follow up bombing run (up to half the total damage). Example if the photo recon took 3 pictures totaling 4 damage points of a 20 point target and returned to base, the target now requires only 16 points to destroy it.

12. Drawing an explosion card equals an exceptionally detailed photo and immediately removes half the damage points required to destroy the target.

13. Pilots of single seaters or observers in two-seaters may not fire a weapon on the maneuver phase that they "Take" a picture.

14. Photos taken from a two-seater are given a + 1 bonus as long as the observer is still alive to take the picture. ‘0’s still count as ‘0’s.

Here is the Photo Recon card I made for these rules.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Seems to have tidied things up a bit Don. The card is very good.
Rob.

[thyme71]

Don, I was just reading over the recon mission rule we've come up with at the table. I like it alot but I'm thinking about some of the realism of it. When I read that a drawn explosion card for the recon shot would indicate an exceptional shot that immediately knocked the target to half strength, I got to thinking about how the observer would even know that he had the exceptional shot. The Polaroid camera hadn't come out yet. Film would take a few hours (at least) to be developed and analyzed. For that matter, would the observer have any way of really knowing just how good his shots were?
Maybe the observers should make blind draws. When the observer makes his recon shot, he draws the damage card but does not look at it. Instead he piles the damage cards for HIS plane according to a full damage pile, and a half damage pile. Then, when the player is satisfied with the number of passes (and is fearing for the health of the plane), he breaks for friendly lines. After the flight is done, the player then looks at his damage cards to determine how many of the shots qualify for a good shot. Each good shot reduces target strength by 1.
Just an idea to take into account the pre-digital camera days.

Jeff

[LGKR]

Don, I was just reading over the recon mission rule we've come up with at the table. I like it alot but I'm thinking about some of the realism of it. When I read that a drawn explosion card for the recon shot would indicate an exceptional shot that immediately knocked the target to half strength, I got to thinking about how the observer would even know that he had the exceptional shot. The Polaroid camera hadn't come out yet. Film would take a few hours (at least) to be developed and analyzed. For that matter, would the observer have any way of really knowing just how good his shots were?
Maybe the observers should make blind draws. When the observer makes his recon shot, he draws the damage card but does not look at it. Instead he piles the damage cards for HIS plane according to a full damage pile, and a half damage pile. Then, when the player is satisfied with the number of passes (and is fearing for the health of the plane), he breaks for friendly lines. After the flight is done, the player then looks at his damage cards to determine how many of the shots qualify for a good shot. Each good shot reduces target strength by 1.
Just an idea to take into account the pre-digital camera days.

Jeff

I like it. We'll have to try it out.

[Charlie3]

Maybe the observers should make blind draws. When the observer makes his recon shot, he draws the damage card but does not look at it. Instead he piles the damage cards for HIS plane according to a full damage pile, and a half damage pile. Then, when the player is satisfied with the number of passes (and is fearing for the health of the plane), he breaks for friendly lines. After the flight is done, the player then looks at his damage cards to determine how many of the shots qualify for a good shot. Each good shot reduces target strength by 1.
Just an idea to take into account the pre-digital camera days.

Jeff

You Evil Genius You! I LIKE IT!! Realism without sacrificing playability. Can't wait to try it out myself.

[Pooh]

We've always played it that the plane must travel directly over the target (as in a collision) doing straight moves the whole way. Neither pilot nor observer can issue fire. The pilot because he's busy keeping the plane straight and level for the photo and the observer because he's taking the picture.
Given that the target is usually pretty small and usually the plane is under attack, this has always seemed hard enough to us. (Last recon mission we did had 2 recon planes and both had to make 2 passes with 1 getting shot down in the process).

We also often times set a max altitude for the recon plane.

Pooh

[thyme71]

Don, I was just reading over the recon mission rule we've come up with at the table. I like it alot but I'm thinking about some of the realism of it. When I read that a drawn explosion card for the recon shot would indicate an exceptional shot that immediately knocked the target to half strength, I got to thinking about how the observer would even know that he had the exceptional shot. The Polaroid camera hadn't come out yet. Film would take a few hours (at least) to be developed and analyzed. For that matter, would the observer have any way of really knowing just how good his shots were?
Maybe the observers should make blind draws. When the observer makes his recon shot, he draws the damage card but does not look at it. Instead he piles the damage cards for HIS plane according to a full damage pile, and a half damage pile. Then, when the player is satisfied with the number of passes (and is fearing for the health of the plane), he breaks for friendly lines. After the flight is done, the player then looks at his damage cards to determine how many of the shots qualify for a good shot. Each good shot reduces target strength by 1.
Just an idea to take into account the pre-digital camera days.

Jeff

Another thought on this.
All this leads to a new ace ability to put in our league rule book. The ability should also be available to be taken after flying 10 missions.

Skilled Photographer: When taking a photo recon shot, a +1 bonus is applied to each damage card. 0 is still 0 though.

[LGKR]

Another thought on this.
All this leads to a new ace ability to put in our league rule book. The ability should also be available to be taken after flying 10 missions.

Skilled Photographer: When taking a photo recon shot, a +1 bonus is applied to each damage card. 0 is still 0 though.

That would work, need to tweak the rules one more time.

[Charlie3]

Love the new Avatar Don.

[LGKR]

Love the new Avatar Don.

Tanks.

[D Von Derson]

Forgive the ramblings of a rookie pilot, a disclaimer is i am still new to the game and have been trawling these boards for great iideas and info ( btw theres lots so thanks )
If you were to utilise blind targets on bombing runs linked to previous recon scenarios could it be possible to allow the bombing team to choose between reducing the total damage required and actually bombing the right target.

To explain , lets say bombing mission has a single target then place 4 possible targets on the playing area all face down. This means the pilots are unsure of exactly where they need to be. If they had a particularly good recon mission they may perhaps be allowed to turn over 2 cards. revealing either a dummy marker or the real target. This would be done instead of lowering the damage required to destroy the target.

The realism behind this could be rather than capturing a detailed photograph of the target it was actually very good recon of the target area.

As i said just the ramblings of a rookie who perhaps does not fully grasp the bombing rules yet.

[CappyTom]

Great idea Gaz. And I really like the way the pilot and recon officer don't know if the photos are any good till they get back to base and get them developed. Fantastic idea.

Tom

We played a campaign photo recon mission last night and as I read the recon rules I thought that is looked a bit easy to complete a mission, so...

As per standard recon rules you must play a stall move in range of your target to take a photo, 1/2 range for pilot only, full range for observer, and place a counter of some sort on the target. Observer can only shoot stuff or take a nice picture but not both. Aircraft must make it off the board to have a chance of completing the mission.
This is where things change a little, for each target you have a difficulty number (I chose 5 which may be a bit high in retrospect) and for each counter on the target draw an "A" damage card. For the target to be successfully photographed you have to get more damage points than the difficulty number. This encourages multiple passes at the same target, and you don't know if you've succeeded in your mission until you get back to base and the photos are developed.

I think for next time (as they only got 1 out of 4 targets photographed they will be going back ) that I'll make it 1 "A + 1" card per counter.

As always, thoughts and possible changes are welcomed....

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Forgive the ramblings of a rookie pilot, a disclaimer is i am still new to the game and have been trawling these boards for great iideas and info ( btw theres lots so thanks )
If you were to utilise blind targets on bombing runs linked to previous recon scenarios could it be possible to allow the bombing team to choose between reducing the total damage required and actually bombing the right target.

To explain , lets say bombing mission has a single target then place 4 possible targets on the playing area all face down. This means the pilots are unsure of exactly where they need to be. If they had a particularly good recon mission they may perhaps be allowed to turn over 2 cards. revealing either a dummy marker or the real target. This would be done instead of lowering the damage required to destroy the target.

The realism behind this could be rather than capturing a detailed photograph of the target it was actually very good recon of the target area.

As i said just the ramblings of a rookie who perhaps does not fully grasp the bombing rules yet.

That is more or less the way we play it. You should see the look on the pilots face when they are fling a low straight line and turn up a hidden Archie battery instead of a soft target.
Rob.

[Charlie3]

Forgive the ramblings of a rookie pilot, a disclaimer is i am still new to the game and have been trawling these boards for great iideas and info ( btw theres lots so thanks )
If you were to utilise blind targets on bombing runs linked to previous recon scenarios could it be possible to allow the bombing team to choose between reducing the total damage required and actually bombing the right target.

To explain , lets say bombing mission has a single target then place 4 possible targets on the playing area all face down. This means the pilots are unsure of exactly where they need to be. If they had a particularly good recon mission they may perhaps be allowed to turn over 2 cards. revealing either a dummy marker or the real target. This would be done instead of lowering the damage required to destroy the target.

The realism behind this could be rather than capturing a detailed photograph of the target it was actually very good recon of the target area.

As i said just the ramblings of a rookie who perhaps does not fully grasp the bombing rules yet.

Basically that is how we have done our bombing missions in the past...We assumed that the pilots would get a map co-ordinance and would fly to the general area (see rules 1-3 in post #17 above) then look for the described target, and attack.

Now with these photo recon rules we get to add the idea that the pilots have "SEEN" what the target looks like from the air and can now find it quickly (eliminate the unknown targets) and have a better idea of where to drop their bombs to be effective. The reduction in the target damage total is simply an incentive to perform the previous mission. It really is just a gamey thing but it generates a reward for actually completing the photo recon, and with the new '"can't look til you get home" idea some new anticipation as well.

I have to admit I never thought of including nasty surprises that can start shooting as soon as you reveal them I like it!

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I have to admit I never thought of including nasty surprises that can start shooting as soon as you reveal them I like it!

That is because beneath this bland, cherubic, hail fellow well met facade there lies an evil sadistic games master trying to emerge.
Rob.

[Charlie3]

That is because beneath this bland, cherubic, hail fellow well met facade there lies an evil sadistic games master trying to emerge.
Rob.

[Wodin]

Many photo recon flights had to map a trench system...so they had to fly slow and straight for quite awhile the observer hanging half out and changing the plates...so really in WoW a photo recon plane once at the target should fly straight for a set number of turns...to simulate the observer being busy he shouldn't be able to fire back when attacked unless the plane breaks away....if the pilot breaks away, the mission should be redone maybe one or two turns more than whatever they had left to finish before they broke away...to simulate the observer starting the shoot a little earlier just in case his guess at where he was upto was wrong.

Not sure if that made sense...

[IRM]

Oh, it does. I play that observers can't switch between guns and another action (taking photos/artillery spotting/bombing etc) during a turn. They have to pick one at the start and stick to it. Haven't made any movement limitations.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Yes Jason, what you and IRM do is pretty much what we have been doing on photo recon. I like the idea of the need for overlap if you have a break in the sequence. That will be down in my next scenario.
Rob.

[Charlie3]

Oh, it does. I play that observers can't switch between guns and another action (taking photos/artillery spotting/bombing etc) during a turn. They have to pick one at the start and stick to it. Haven't made any movement limitations.

We have always allowed the observer to switch between jobs during a game turn. However I see the merit of doing it your way.

The photography of the day was difficult at best on the ground (insert the plate, focus, time of exposure, etc) let alone performing it on a camera that is strapped to the side of a plane that is bouncing about! I think making the player declare the job being carried out by the observer after everyone has selected the maneuvers for the game turn, but before any movement occures is a good idea. I might even place a jam marker on the plane stand to remind the player that the plane can't shoot during the turn or allow the pilot to shoot if a sweet target happens to move into range at the cost of the pictures taken that game turn. (still no observer fire)

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Of course we have those Camera markers that we could put on to indicate that the observer is occupied. I have not been using mine for anything else. That would tie in well with the way the markers in F.o.G. are used.
Rob.

[Wodin]

Not sure if what I said would work in the game as I'm yet to fly...waiting to get Xmas out of the way...and Boney is doing me the rules again!! He said he could bind them next time and cut them to size....he is a star...