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Thread: Criticize my house rules.

  1. #1

    Default Criticize my house rules.

    Hello all.

    I want to use some house rules and I would like to know what do you think about them. Please, feel confortable to critice them.

    Some of these house rules are inspirated (or copied) in some house rules I read here.



    1- Altitude rules:

    You can place a altitude token over moviment card in planning phase.. When reveal it in moviment phase, if the the speed marker is a high speed maneuver, you lose one climb TOKEN. If it is a low speed maneuver, you gain a climb TOKEN.

    You can't place a altitude token in a steep card (exception: climb maneuver). Edit: I will test it without this restriction.



    2 Immelman rules:

    To disencourage "joust" fights, I want use these rules:

    You receive a extra "A" damage when revel and move using the "Immelman" card while you are being SHOT, for being a easy target.

    You can't shoot when you move using the Immelman card.


    3- Smoke and fire.

    When you receive a smoke damage, you take three smoke tokens and three fire tokens. Every turn, you take off one of these markers. You only can take off the fire markers after you don't have smoke markers anymore. Treat fire damage as normal.

    Single engine planes can't choose a straight manouver while is catching fire or smoking.



    I'm sorry for my poor English, I hope you can understand all I wrote here.


    Edit: Better explained rules.
    Last edited by tiagodeividy; 01-03-2014 at 07:23.

  2. #2

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    I kind of like your altitude rules. Seems like a simple way to allow planes to climb and dive while making turns... something planes can easily do!

  3. #3

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    I agree, you can't beat the KISS principle.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  4. #4

  5. #5

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    Someone who tells that KISSing is a simple rule never met some of my girlfriends...

  6. #6

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    I like the altitude idea a lot... been trying to figure a way of letting the planes bank and loose/gain altitude. How are you dealing with a stall/climb as in theory it is slow?

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    I kind of like your altitude rules. Seems like a simple way to allow planes to climb and dive while making turns... something planes can easily do!
    Thank you.

    What about the others house rules? Didn't you like them? You advice some change?


    Quote Originally Posted by Skafloc View Post
    I agree, you can't beat the KISS principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    Yep, I like KISSING. lol
    I'm sorry, I didn't understand your joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by RichJ View Post
    I like the altitude idea a lot... been trying to figure a way of letting the planes bank and loose/gain altitude. How are you dealing with a stall/climb as in theory it is slow?

    You can't place a altitude marker over a card with a STEEP simbol. Climb is a exception. If you place a altitude token in a climb, you gain two altitude levels.
    Last edited by tiagodeividy; 01-02-2014 at 12:57.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiagodeividy View Post



    I'm sorry, I didn't understand your joke.
    Tiago,
    KISS is an acronym used in Anglo military speak for 'Keep It Simple Stupid'; in other words, don't try to overcomplicate something which can be resolved in a straightforward way.
    BdiR

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiagodeividy View Post


    2 Immelman rules:

    To disencourage "joust" fights, I want use these rules:

    You receive a extra "A" damage when revel and move using the "Immelman" card.

    You can't shoot when you move using the Immelman card.
    I don't care for this one as it has no real basis in reality. Why should a plane receive automatic damage from doing a maneuver it can rightfully preform? Same with not shooting after the Immelmann card. Pilots shot all the time during hard maneuvers. I dislike the "joust" games as much as the next player, but I'm not sure this is the way to solve it.


    Quote Originally Posted by tiagodeividy View Post
    3- Smoke and fire.

    When you receive a smoke damage, you take three smoke tokens and three fire tokens. Every turn, you take off one of these markers. You only can take off the fire markers after you don't have smoke markers anymore. Treat fire damage as normal.

    Single engine planes can't choose a straight manouver while is catching fire or smoking.



    I'm sorry for my poor English, I hope you can understand all I wrote here.
    So smoke also causes fire and you take fire damage for 6 rounds?

  10. #10

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    Also, if you do not put a counter on the steep maneuvers, your opponent will have a reasonable idea of what move you have planed. Or do you plan a dummy counter if you are not changing altitude?

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    I don't care for this one as it has no real basis in reality. Why should a plane receive automatic damage from doing a maneuver it can rightfully preform? Same with not shooting after the Immelmann card. Pilots shot all the time during hard maneuvers. I dislike the "joust" games as much as the next player, but I'm not sure this is the way to solve it.

    So smoke also causes fire and you take fire damage for 6 rounds?
    I'm sorry for don't explain it right. You receive a extra "A" damage if you are BEING SHOT. I suppose you will be a easy target doing a immelman turn meanwhile a plane is shootting you. Am I wrong? What do you think?


    About smoke: Smoke causes fire and you take "A" damage for only 3 rounds (3 rounds of smoke and 3 of fire). I don't know if I'm being clear.

    Thank you for you answers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    Also, if you do not put a counter on the steep maneuvers, your opponent will have a reasonable idea of what move you have planed. Or do you plan a dummy counter if you are not changing altitude?
    You are right... maybe its better don't use this restriction... A flaw of this variant is when you place a altitude token everyone will know it. I choose don't use a dummy counter because I wish make altitude rules as simple as possible. What do you think? Any sugestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baldrick62 View Post
    Tiago,
    KISS is an acronym used in Anglo military speak for 'Keep It Simple Stupid'; in other words, don't try to overcomplicate something which can be resolved in a straightforward way.
    BdiR
    Thank you for your explanation.
    Last edited by tiagodeividy; 01-02-2014 at 19:25.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiagodeividy View Post
    You are right... maybe its better don't use this restriction... A flaw of this variant is when you place a altitude token everyone will know it. I choose don't use a dummy counter because I wish make altitude rules as simple as possible. What do you think?
    Those where my thoughts as well. Without dummy your enemy will see you are planning a climb and can easly do the same. What about 2 extra speed tokens? One fast and one slow, both with an extra marking on them. That marking is the climb or dive token. So when you plan a climb or dive you put that token onto the card instead of the normal one. This way you still have only one token onto your manoeuvre card...

    This is going to make games interesting as altitude will change faster...

  13. #13

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    I must say that I like the idea of the tokens for climb and dive on the turn.
    As for the Immelmann, now it is explained, it seems reasonable to adopt it, and I may well give it a try, with Thomas' addendum. The smoke and fire, I choose to leave as they are.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  14. #14

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    Yes, those sound better now. I think I'll leave the Immelmann and smoke rules alone for my games, but I'll test out the altitude ones you have posted.

    A special dive or climb mark on one of the counters seems like it could work very well. That way you are always playing one counter on each card planned. It follows the normal rules of the game and gives your opponent no insight as to what your maneuver might be. If I like it enough, I might actually make a set of custom acrylic counters for it!

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    Yes, those sound better now. I think I'll leave the Immelmann and smoke rules alone for my games, but I'll test out the altitude ones you have posted.

    A special dive or climb mark on one of the counters seems like it could work very well. That way you are always playing one counter on each card planned. It follows the normal rules of the game and gives your opponent no insight as to what your maneuver might be. If I like it enough, I might actually make a set of custom acrylic counters for it!
    Would you make normal speed markers as well then? Because to work the climb and dive marker have to look exactly like the normal speed markers. This way you opponent really has no clue on what you are going to do (just like it is now).

    In total a player would have 5 tokens available to put on his maneuver cards:

    A blank one (to maintain speed at level flight)
    High Speed Level Flight
    Low Speed Level Flight
    High Speed Dive
    Low Speed Climb

    I was also thinking about putting a Low Speed Climb token onto a climb card. Do you gain two climb tokens (the ones officially used) or two levels? Following the official rules one would say two climb tokens instead of 2 levels. Might want to limit this as we can consider this puts a lot of stress on the engine. Maybe only pilots with a special ace ability can perform this maneuver...

    This actually sounds like a strong alternative to the current altitude rules which seem to limit these high powered birds. Now one would be able to climb every two cards almost independent of the chosen maneuver where the official rules force you to do a straight.

    Edit: Had some spare time and quickly made these...

    Possible High Speed Dive tokens

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	119526

    Possible Low Speed Climb tokens

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	119527 Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	119528
    Last edited by Thomatchef; 01-03-2014 at 07:20. Reason: Added extra

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomatchef View Post
    Those where my thoughts as well. Without dummy your enemy will see you are planning a climb and can easly do the same. What about 2 extra speed tokens? One fast and one slow, both with an extra marking on them. That marking is the climb or dive token. So when you plan a climb or dive you put that token onto the card instead of the normal one. This way you still have only one token onto your manoeuvre card...

    This is going to make games interesting as altitude will change faster...
    Thank you for answer. This rule you have suggested is almost exactly the same house rule that I've used it to inspire me. LINK: http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...l=1#post103643

    I tried to do a simpler version to teach new players, they don't have problem with view the altitude marker of another players. Actually, they don't pay attention at another players cards when planning.

    But I know you are right! Maybe this house rule doesn't work for experienced players. I think it's better to use your (improved) sugestion to experienced players. What do you think?


    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    Yes, those sound better now. I think I'll leave the Immelmann and smoke rules alone for my games, but I'll test out the altitude ones you have posted.

    A special dive or climb mark on one of the counters seems like it could work very well. That way you are always playing one counter on each card planned. It follows the normal rules of the game and gives your opponent no insight as to what your maneuver might be. If I like it enough, I might actually make a set of custom acrylic counters for it!
    Thank you. Please, tell me if worked fine for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomatchef View Post
    Would you make normal speed markers as well then? Because to work the climb and dive marker have to look exactly like the normal speed markers. This way you opponent really has no clue on what you are going to do (just like it is now).

    In total a player would have 5 tokens available to put on his maneuver cards:

    A blank one (to maintain speed at level flight)
    High Speed Level Flight
    Low Speed Level Flight
    High Speed Dive
    Low Speed Climb

    I was also thinking about putting a Low Speed Climb token onto a climb card. Do you gain two climb tokens (the ones officially used) or two levels? Following the official rules one would say two climb tokens instead of 2 levels. Might want to limit this as we can consider this puts a lot of stress on the engine. Maybe only pilots with a special ace ability can perform this maneuver...

    This actually sounds like a strong alternative to the current altitude rules which seem to limit these high powered birds. Now one would be able to climb every two cards almost independent of the chosen maneuver where the official rules force you to do a straight.
    Climb tokens. I'm sorry to don't make it clear. I will correct in original post.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiagodeividy View Post
    Thank you for answer. This rule you have suggested is almost exactly the same house rule that I've used it to inspire me. LINK: http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...l=1#post103643

    I tried to do a simpler version to teach new players, they don't have problem with view the altitude marker of another players. Actually, they don't pay attention at another players cards when planning.

    But I know you are right! Maybe this house rule doesn't work for experienced players. I think it's better to use your (improved) sugestion to experienced players. What do you think?
    Well for new players this might be a version that works. However if you have a smart new player he can take huge advantage of this and ruin the game for other new players. The two extra tokens are almost as simple as the one you add.
    I must have missed that thread about the altitude rules. Seems like we should ask CappyTom how he plays his games now...

    Quote Originally Posted by tiagodeividy View Post
    Climb tokens. I'm sorry to don't make it clear. I will correct in original post.
    No problem at all!!

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomatchef View Post
    Would you make normal speed markers as well then? Because to work the climb and dive marker have to look exactly like the normal speed markers. This way you opponent really has no clue on what you are going to do (just like it is now).

    In total a player would have 5 tokens available to put on his maneuver cards:

    A blank one (to maintain speed at level flight)
    High Speed Level Flight
    Low Speed Level Flight
    High Speed Dive
    Low Speed Climb

    I was also thinking about putting a Low Speed Climb token onto a climb card. Do you gain two climb tokens (the ones officially used) or two levels? Following the official rules one would say two climb tokens instead of 2 levels. Might want to limit this as we can consider this puts a lot of stress on the engine. Maybe only pilots with a special ace ability can perform this maneuver...

    This actually sounds like a strong alternative to the current altitude rules which seem to limit these high powered birds. Now one would be able to climb every two cards almost independent of the chosen maneuver where the official rules force you to do a straight.
    Yes, I'd make a full set of counters so that everything would be hidden.

    I'm not convinced on the climb counter on a climb card yet. My WGS rules knowledge is rusty, but I think this climb/climb modification in conjunction with the climb while turning modification would make place climb to quickly. While I'm not a big fan of the way climb rates a done in this game, I'm tempted to say leave them alone with all these other changes.

  19. #19

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    Maybe use new altitude speed markers you suggested and restrict them to "non-steep" maneuvers can fix it.

    Or do you think is better use the restriction (don't use the altitude speed marker) just to the climb cards?

  20. #20

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    I think it's best not to allow the use of the climb markers on both steep maneuvers and climbs. A dive marker on a dive card might be a more elegant way to do overdives though. I'd have to think on that some more.

  21. #21

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    I understand.

    Thank you for your suggestions.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    Yes, I'd make a full set of counters so that everything would be hidden.

    I'm not convinced on the climb counter on a climb card yet. My WGS rules knowledge is rusty, but I think this climb/climb modification in conjunction with the climb while turning modification would make place climb to quickly. While I'm not a big fan of the way climb rates a done in this game, I'm tempted to say leave them alone with all these other changes.
    After some thinking I wouldn't allow it to. Beeing able to climb two tokens in one turn is a bit too much. If a player plays it smart he can plan the climb card first and then a turn with a climb token on it to climb two turns in a row. This seems already more than fast enough...

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomatchef View Post
    In total a player would have 5 tokens available to put on his maneuver cards:

    A blank one (to maintain speed at level flight)
    High Speed Level Flight
    Low Speed Level Flight
    High Speed Dive
    Low Speed Climb

    I was also thinking about putting a Low Speed Climb token onto a climb card. Do you gain two climb tokens (the ones officially used) or two levels? Following the official rules one would say two climb tokens instead of 2 levels. Might want to limit this as we can consider this puts a lot of stress on the engine. Maybe only pilots with a special ace ability can perform this maneuver...

    This actually sounds like a strong alternative to the current altitude rules which seem to limit these high powered birds. Now one would be able to climb every two cards almost independent of the chosen maneuver where the official rules force you to do a straight.
    Fascinating discussion... I like the idea of the new counters. I'll need to think, however, on the proposed "double-climb" (climb marker on a climb card)... it might make elevation changes too prevalent.

    Nice mock-up of the proposed markers, btw.

  24. #24

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    One question what will be used for a Climb race? The Typical 109 Manouver in the battle of Britain. The came from above max speed passed and climbed with full speed. Or what will be the trick dive lowering youre altitude slowly in the hope that youre enemy is moving to fast to low.

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhary View Post
    One question what will be used for a Climb race? The Typical 109 Manouver in the battle of Britain. The came from above max speed passed and climbed with full speed. Or what will be the trick dive lowering youre altitude slowly in the hope that youre enemy is moving to fast to low.
    One place where the game understandably falls short I think is in differences between the planes when one is talking subtle things outside of manoeuvre differences. This difference between early carbs and fuel injected engines is one such thing. The trick of steep negative g dives which cut the Merlin engine out could be catered for by letting the 109s not have to go straight out of the dive, that way it would be a way of shaking the spit/hurrie.

    Talking about the altitude we are playing you can change one chit on any straight bank or turn but use the dark lines for dives and the white ones for climbs which seems to be a vague model that looks/feels ok.

    Rich

  26. #26

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    I kinda feel like the altitude rules would work well with world war 2, but in world war 1 it seems to not fit the theme of limits to planes; i.e. no dive bombing in world war 1: the planes would break!

  27. #27

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    As we have it now, you could do a normal climb, a climbing turn, then a steep maneuver, followed by a climbing turn and either another normal climb or a steep maneuver. To me that just seems a little unbalanced.

    Thinking on this more, I am inclined to make any maneuver that has the new "climb counter" added to it into a steep maneuver. This would bring the climb ratings of planes back inline with the official rules a little bit. If we made a dedicated climbing and diving counter, we could apply this restriction to climbs but not dives (since you would be gaining energy instead of losing it).

    Thoughts?

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    Thinking on this more, I am inclined to make any maneuver that has the new "climb counter" added to it into a steep maneuver.
    Would this preclude one from using a climb counter on a steep maneuver card?

  29. #29

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    Yes. I think that was the consensus from the original post though?

  30. #30

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    Ok, just confirming. I'll have to give these a whirl.

  31. #31

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    I had not considered that any climb or dive type move under the new system would be anything but a steep, and that the official rules would apply in just the same way as they do to the official cards.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  32. #32

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    I rember the Old Wow Dawn Optinal altitude rules. You can climb and dive by every turn as you wish. And the climb and Dive cards are no Step cards.

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhary View Post
    I rember the Old Wow Dawn Optinal altitude rules. You can climb and dive by every turn as you wish. And the climb and Dive cards are no Step cards.
    I'm not recalling these... did they differentiate between different kites, or did they all climb/dive at the same rate?

  34. #34

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    Coud be that is was an Translation Mistake I found it only in me German version of the rules.



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